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Online gaming - why and why not?

 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:15 / 28.08.05
I think it's becoming apparent now that online gaming might be the only true evolution that we see in the next generation of console gaming.

Microsoft have already made some huge strides in the area with Xbox Live - a remarkably simple interface, pretty consistent quality of service, fairly decent customer support - and the 360, at least, looks to be taking that to another level. You've got the Live Arcade service offering cheap downloadable titles, with new games (PomPom's Mutant Storm) mixed in with the more familiar Windows stuff (no doubt Hearts and Minesweeper will make some sort of appearance) and the rumour of games from now-defunct consoles (which could seriously exciting, if it happens - the DC's online version of Daytona, anybody?).

You've got a much expanded online interface, allowing your friends list to keep a record of which games the people on it play. You've got the 'marketplace' allowing you to download demos, trailers, as well as more content for the games. You've got what sounds like a greater emphasis on creating and maintaining an online identity, with the whole 'gamer card' business.

The current version of Live is generally excellent, especially in those games that MS themselves have published. Halo 2's lobby and voice messaging systems could well be the best and most important things about the game, and Bungie's website stats support is superb. Forza Motorsport and Project Gotham Racing 2's immediately-updating world leaderboards don't ask anything of the player other than the ability to get the console online in the first place.

More often than not, third-party games also integrate Live into the offline game equally well (although, notoriously, EA have managed to wreck its reputation a little, but we'll brush that under the carpet for now), supporting doanloadable content and high score tables if not fully-playable online modes.

So what I'm wondering is, why aren't more people getting involved with it? There are a lot of people on Live, but proportionally it's a small amount compared to the number who own an Xbox - something like 10%, last time I saw this topic come up. Even on Barbelith there are, I think, a number of people who own Xboxes, who obviously have broadband Internet connections, but who either never bother with Live or else have a subscription to the service, but never use it.

Does it mean that Microsoft are making a mistake by putting so much of the 360's focus onto the online side of things? Will only 10% of that machine's owners ever experience anything other than the single player modes?

Much the same applies to the PC. I would have thought that this place would have a fair number of MMORPG players hanging about, but that doesn't appear to be the case. How come?
 
 
charrellz
17:05 / 28.08.05
I think the reason there are so few people playing online games is because when I hear "online" I immediatly think subscription fee. Thus, the only MMORPGs I play are Urban Dead and Guild Wars. It's hard enough to shell out the $40-$60 for the game up front without a monthly charge of $10 or sometimes $20.

The other reason, atleast for me, is the Other. I hate dealing with the majority of people you find playing online games. Be they helpless n00bs or the vengeful player killers, they all grate on my last nerve. Thus, I play alot of LAN games with close friends and relatives, but very few online games.
 
 
■
17:47 / 28.08.05
Yup, it's the cost thing and the hardcore players that get my goat. In games such as MUD2 there is a set level of progression and a tremendously steep learning curve that no amount of expense will help you evade. You pay a tenner a month or so, and the rest is all very not-for-profit, so there's an ingrained ethos that it's all about gameplay and interaction, not "success". PK's exist (indeed, it's probably impossible to become a wiz without killing a few high-levels), but they are usually limited to high level players who know how hard it is to work your way up and give the little kids a break. My one experience of Ultima Online taught me that no-one gives a shit about newbies and that it's all about aquisition and dominance. We've got enough of that in RL, thanks very much. Couldn't be bothered going back.
However, were there an MMORPG based on GTA, the words "rat up a drainpipe" would not do me justice.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
20:33 / 28.08.05
With regards to the Other which Charrelz mentions, I think it depnds on how you like to play games. I might be losing street cred here, but I like to look around a bit and immerse in the game world, as opposed to just constant killing and competitiveness. Therefore the online arena just isn't a safe place for me- and presumably a lot of other gamers like me- to be, in most cases.
 
 
The Strobe
22:00 / 28.08.05
Lots to say on this tomorrow, but to Cube, regarding MUD2 (which I played for a fair while before it went subscription based): it's very possible to make wiz without PKing. It's trickier, but PKing is entirely optional. Killing the dragon thousands of times is pretty much mandatory, though.
 
 
■
23:09 / 28.08.05
Really? I always get the willies when I venture on to the island. I think it's a hangover from v23bis days that something nasty will happen when someone says "hello" and you're trying to type fast. Perhaps it's all about conquering your fears, then. I think it's time we got a MUD thread. But not yet, I need sleep.
Before I do, though, can I just repost my draggy?
 
 
The Strobe
07:32 / 30.08.05
Live is awesome, but it's too transitory. It attaches a model from PC gaming - online play - and attaches it to consoles but fails to address one major issue:

the fickleness of the majority of console gamers.

Console games are, by and large, seen as disposable. People don't usually invest the time into them that PC gamers do. And by time, I mean months, years. I played Quake (specifically, QuakeWorld TeamFortress) online for a good few years - and I started at least a year after Quake itself was released. Quake III is still hugely popular, so's Warcraft 3, and hell, Starcraft still gets played a great deal for a game that old.

By contrast, many of the Xbox games which have "Live enabled" on the front have nigh-on dead communities. Only a few see regular play online. The greatest "sticker" I guess is Project Gotham 2, because it's easy to make friends, brilliantly designed around the Live component, and a nice balance of skill/fun. But who's playing the superb Crimson Skies, apart from a small community of people who picked it up recently for a fiver, or its fans? Who's playing Kingdom Under Fire? Who's playing Outrun? Who's still playing Burnout 3, which, despite its problems, was a superb online game?

The dedicated and the hardcore. The fickle have already moved on.

Or are playing Halo 2. Halo 2 was marketed to hell and is the most popular game on Live by a country mile. Much of that success is deserved - the online side of things is an example to others, especially regarding the concept of "matchmaking" - but it's a shame that so many Halo players just won't touch anything else.

I find Live frustrating because you *have* to keep pace with other players, or make sure you know enough. If you buy a game a month after it's out, it'll still be being played online, but you'll be so far behind the curve that it's quite hard to get decent games. If you buy a game two, three months after it's out... there might not be an online community left. You end up being forced to buy things at point of release and hope they're popular.

I don't like that model. I want to be able to pick up a game and hope that people are still playing it online, but, unfortunately, console gamers (by and large) aren't like that. They always want the next thing.

Still, there's some excellent games still being played - Street Fighter III springs to mind - and I've been very impressed by the quality of public games of Ghost Recon 2: Summit Strike that I've had, which (compared to Halo 2) were models of decency.

I guess the technical issues might need to be addressed too (in short: getting an ethernet connection to a console isn't always that easy even if you have broadband) as well as the social ones (most people prefer making friends face-to-face), but I think I'll save them because the above could be worth some discussion first.
 
 
Char Aina
10:10 / 30.08.05
one of the few good live sessions i had was that one ages ago with yersel, randy.
d'you remember that shithead on our team that kept fragging us in a later game?
that kind of stuff got worse and worse, and i couldnt be bothered with it any more. halo2 had potential, but i got really frustrated with that kind of behaviour.

i'd agree strongly with the cost issue too. mainly because i just dont buy full price games and live kinda makes you feel yo need to.
it just doesnt seem worth it to me, and i feel that by the time a game is cheap enough for me to buy it, everyone has moved on.
(i normally wait till its about twenty quid at most. the one time i bought a thirty quid game, burnout3, it was shit and everyone i knew was bored of it already anyway. doing that with a forty quid game would prolly make me cry brain fluid.)

i think online gaming could be cool, but a few things need to change first.
the community needs to get way bigger for starters. its cool that there are a couple of folks i can play with and rely on their good conduct, but i reckon you need about a hundred such gamers to make it viable.
the lag issues need to be dealt with to the point that there just isnt any perceptible in-game. it gets really frustrating that folks can kick your ass and crow about it because they can launch enough attacks to kill you before you even hit them with one.
the games could also do with getting better.
it seems to me that 'live' was a gimmick of this iteration of consoles, not really designed for by most studios. those that did and did it well seem few and far between, and many of those have still had teething trouble.
there are more niggles, but those are my main gripes.

it cost too much, you had to keep current games-wise, there were nowhere near enough kindred spirits to play with, many of the games felt like their live components were an afterthought, and the service provider was not reliable enough.

all of these things may be made much better as the phenomenon grows, but i'm not convinced.

i suspect part of the problem with the live service may be that microsoft isnt a game company and subsequently i have started pinning my hopes for the next round on nintendo.
barring serious suckage on their part, i reckon thats the next console i'll buy.

god, i hope it isnt shit.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
13:55 / 30.08.05
On Nintendo (but briefly, as I keep going off-topic on this every time I write this post): The information that they've made public about their online plans for the DS suggests that their strategy is questionable, at best, and downright stupid at worst. No unique gamertags being the daftest of their proposals, for a whole range of reasons.

They've an awful lot to prove with their next console and I find it worrying that so many people are so prepared to pin their hopes on what are, at the moment, a few bland and empty promises. Their understanding of how online gaming works is unproven - I'll need to hear a lot more before I'm halfway to being convinced that they know what they're doing here.

Microsoft haven't traditionally been a games company, but then neither were Sony up until a few years ago. What Microsoft appear to have done is to have combined knowledge gained from general Internet activity with that from the failed Dreamcast online experiment, looked at what works and what doesn't and built Live up from there. The 360 excites because it looks like they're now adding the influence of the modding community to that list - what is the promise of downloadable games from old home hardware if not an attempt to legitimise emulation? That's an acknowledgement of the fact that a large number of Xbox owners modified the hardware because they wanted to revisit old titles from the comfort of their armchair. You can accuse MS of many things, but not being able to reconginse when something is proving to be popular and passing up the opportunity to half-inch it for themselves isn't one of them.

I'm not sure what the answer is to the problem of Live's community being fickle. Maybe something that could be better explored in certain titles is to find ways to increase the player's sense of connection to and ownership of their in-game avatar. That's definitely how MMORPGs get their hooks into people initially - what keeps them there, as far as I can tell, is a combination of that and the relationships that they build up with others during the process of learning the rules and exploring the world.

That's only something that can comfortably sit in certain games, though. What would be the point of it in Outrun 2? It's also something that has to be balanced properly - Rare attempted to do it with their Xbox remake of Conker, awarding the player experience points for playing online and having these open up stronger abilities for use in the online game, but it simply led to a situation where those players who were able to put the most time in ended up having a significant advantage over newer or less regular players, regardless of their ability. As a result, that game has a tiny band of dedicated players, but is impossible for anybody else to enjoy.

I think the current answer to the problems mentioned in the two posts directly above - people moving from one game to a newer one at the drop of a hat, people being incapable of conducting themselves in a decent manner online - is to build up as extensive a friends list as possible and generally stick to playing with the people on it. It's not a proper solution, but it's a way of guaranteeing that the online experience remains fun and that older games don't end up gathering dust. toks, I do remember those games I had with you, but in terms of the amount of time I've spent on Halo 2 online, that sort of thing has been relatively rare because I've tried to make sure that I only play it when I know at least half of the people on my team. If you'd have been online on a night when there was a proper party of friends list people playing, you'd have got a lot more enjoyment from it.

It's a shame that this has to be the case, though. When Live's matchmaking system randomly manages to place you with people who play the games for fun, who have a laugh and a chat with you and who obviously *get* it, it's almost unbeatable. This is why, in a lot of ways, those games which aren't massively popular are often a safer bet than those which are. If somebody's still playing PGR2 or Outrun, it's because they enjoy the game for what it is, not because they can annoy other people through it. In a funny way, Halo 2 is doing the rest of the Live community a whole world of good by eating up all the wankers' time - Ghost Recon 2: Summit Strike is far more successful in public games, because the idiots and trolls are all causing hassle on Halo.

I quite like Miscrosoft's plans for the new version of Live as far as the changes to the feedback system go. Whereas negative feedback currently only results in temporary bannings from the service (according to whatever metrics MS have in place to measure feedback), with the 360 they're suggesting that yr bad attitude crew - the team-killers, the abusive knobs, the glitchers - will end up only being able to play games with each other. The system will match those with large amounts of negative feedback with each other exclusively, removing their reason for being idiots - the joy they get from pissing somebody else off.

PC MMORPGS> Yeah, I keep forgetting about the subscription fees for them. I don't consider the charges to be too expensive, myself - as long as GMs are always present should they be needed, as long as updates and events within the worlds are regular and as long as you're obviously getting a service which is carefully maintained and monitored, I can accept the extra, regular cost. I can totally understand why a lot of people don't like the idea of having to continue forking out every month once they've made their initial purchase, though.

Maybe a better model, from the consumer's point of view, would be for the game disc to cost no more than one month's subscription - it *is* more than a bit cheeky to charge full whack for a disc which can never be used offline. It'll never happen, though - publishers would lose out a lot of the profit that they're currently making from selling these games to people who play them for a couple of weeks, then never boot them up again.
 
 
Char Aina
18:48 / 30.08.05
i take your point about nintendo.
i guess i just became bored of the playstation one, am now bored of the xbox, and i was hoping to get a different thread of gaming going on.
i have thought a few times tht the amount of time the online stuff was important to me this genraion i might have been better buying the cube this time round.
 
  
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