BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Help me choose an O.T.O.

 
 
Unconditional Love
07:14 / 25.08.05
Thelemic guru ratings

Well, i am thinking of joining the O.T.O. but by the gods what a mess, i mean where do i start, so much shit to sift through id need to be a sewage processing plant.

Which ones give you a free laptop when you open an account?

What are peoples experiences of these organisations? The good the bad and the ugly.

Ive met people from the cOTO alongtime ago, even signed something,cant remember what, can remember one guy doing evil dead impressions, join us, join us etc etc.

So help a bloke out, what are these different OTOs like as organisations?
 
 
osymandus
07:25 / 25.08.05
Hmm hang on your wanting to join a Thelemic order and want someone else to tell you which one to ? Only kidding. Right well the simplist bit is basicly ... go along and ask , the (c)OTO is v open about this and you can contact them via the websites e-mail etc any other info PM me and ill see what i can find out. IF someone was doing evil dead impressions and meaning it , id propably find someone else to talk to

The others from what i've checked (AOTO, TOTO avalon and Typhonion, all have websites etc)out are equaly so , its a meet and greet thing basicly if your intrested and their open they'll try and arrange time to see you.

Then and the most important bit of course is well you decide ;-) (if anyone calls themself a guru run ! and only accept Evil dead quotes from Bruce Campbell )
 
 
unsubscribe
11:45 / 25.08.05
93,

To what end?

Lineage-wise they are all pretty fractured.

Magick? Nope, the OTO is fraternal. Plenty of Gnostic Mass action if you are a recovering Catholic.

Initiation cash factories with, in my experience, far too large a loser count to be of use.

>so much shit to sift through id need to be a sewage >processing plant.

That is unfortunately an accurate view of the various competing OTO's.

cOTO the 'mcOTO' is all Crowley by numbers with precious little innovation and a rather acquisitive and litigious bent. If you are London based the chipper Ben Collier is your man to talk to for a sympathetic view. Or Rodney Orpheus who knows his stuff but can be a bit of a ranter.

Typhonians? No longer using the OTO name afaik. Catch a talk by Michael Staley and see what you think. At least
they are doing something interesting, not sure that it's thelema though.

Albion OTO, thumbing their nose at the cOTO but do seem to be working magickians.

None of the others are big enough to warrant a mention.

>Ive met people from the cOTO alongtime ago, even signed >something,cant remember what, can remember one guy doing >evil dead impressions, join us, join us etc etc.

Next time so us all a favour and punch him out.

I have friends in the cOTO and good luck to them, but my advice, go with your gut and don't sign on the line. There are good lodges and good people, just remember 'caveat emptor'.

Network, build contacts, do the Work. Grand Orders are not really relevant in the information age.

Good luck.
 
 
osymandus
12:44 / 25.08.05
93
" Grand Orders are not really relevant in the information age. "

Like small bookshops are no longer relevant now we have out of town huge warehouse's ? ;-) Not everyone can wade through the swath of knowledge which is avaliabe in this day and age and frameworks provided by any order are there for the person to use as a framework for themseleves to build apon.

Of which Atlantis Bookshop by the British museum is also a very good place to go to ask for assitance .

Why would being a fraternity preclude an orcanisation from working magick or developing and studying techniques ?



93 93/93
 
 
unsubscribe
15:32 / 25.08.05
93,

Let me unscramble that.

>Like small bookshops are no longer relevant now we have >out of town huge warehouse's ? ;-)

Information is no longer drip fed through scarce channels. That is not to confuse abundant knowledge with it's application and transformation into Gnosis.

Rather we can combine and work in small groups rather than sign up for 'mc orders'.

>Not everyone can wade through the swath of knowledge which >is avaliabe in this day and age

My heart bleeds for them. Of course we are being deluged with snippety bits of information all the time, but a competent magickian should be able to filter and select what is required.

>and frameworks provided by any order are there for the >person to use as a framework for themseleves to build apon.

They can be, they can also narrow and restrict growth by applying rigid orthodoxy.

I question the need for a hierarchical grade driven structure and a Masonic 'learn by rote' approach to ritual and initiation.

>Why would being a fraternity preclude an orcanisation from >working magick or developing and studying techniques ?

The OTO is not a teaching order.
That's where the AA fits in to the scheme of things.

I can reply in more detail tomorrow. No more time to post today.

93s
 
 
osymandus
17:42 / 25.08.05
93,

Thanks for your replys

"Information is no longer drip fed through scarce channels. That is not to confuse abundant knowledge with it's application and transformation into Gnosis.

Rather we can combine and work in small groups rather than sign up for 'mc orders'."

From what i know the coming together and working in some groups is encoraged , i'm guessing the mcorder parts your refering to would be a curiculum ?


"My heart bleeds for them. Of course we are being deluged with snippety bits of information all the time, but a competent magickian should be able to filter and select what is required."

Depends weather you believe magickians are born or made as it were . The discerment of information comes surly form experince and teaching . Its rare individuals who can create this criteria entirly form scratch. Isnt one of teh underlying princicples of teh orders mention to aassit humanity ?


>and frameworks provided by any order are there for the >person to use as a framework for themseleves to build apon.

"They can be, they can also narrow and restrict growth by applying rigid orthodoxy."

Yes buts thats for the indivudal to disceren surly ? The Carptener who uses the screw driver for every job has fallen to both a dogman and well lack of understanding. But its not the fault of the screwdriver or its manufactuer is it ?



"I question the need for a hierarchical grade driven structure and a Masonic 'learn by rote' approach to ritual and initiation."

No its not for everyone , but its worked very well in other works of life Martial arts being a very good example("hierarchical structure that is ). Its the perception of "hierarchical" structure we traditionly have in the "western" sense that may put people off .

>Why would being a fraternity preclude an orcanisation from >working magick or developing and studying techniques ?

"The OTO is not a teaching order."

I know from experince that is not the case"
"That's where the AA fits in to the scheme of things."
Differnet teachings and concepts , like comparing Physics and Quantum Physics , both sciences both leading to a goal of knoweledge but each in a differnet way and to each their own .

I can reply in more detail tomorrow. No more time to post today.

93s

Thank you

93 93/93
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
07:52 / 26.08.05
Can we chill with the 93's in this thread?
 
 
illmatic
08:40 / 26.08.05
Look, Gypsy, don't you understand saying certain numbers over and over again because Crowley said so is a vital component of expressing my indviduality and free-thinking nature? It's people like you that are holding back the New Aeon.

Wolfangel: Why do you want to join the OTO? What are your intentions? What do you hope to gain from it.

94 (it's one louder!).
 
 
osymandus
08:58 / 26.08.05
Really i thought it was a greeting ! God does that mean i dilute my idividualtey each time i say hello or perform a salutation in the relevant common tounge/society becuase everyone else does !! Agggh I bow to you great and wise guru :P

anyway everyone knows 11 is the loudest (do i get a no price for a Qabalic and spinal tap pun in one ?)
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
10:17 / 26.08.05
I dunno, it just comes across like saying hello to another star trek fan in the language of the klingons. Special geeky shared languages are annoying. But if you actually felt the need to start and end every one of your posts to a thread with a greeting such as "hello" and "goodbye", it would also start to grate pretty quickly.

Nice pun on number 11 though.
 
 
Unconditional Love
10:41 / 26.08.05
Why?

Friendship.
Group work, ritual and magickal.
Similar intrests.
Philosophy of individualism shared by a collective of spiritual/magickal people.
Sharing of knowledge.
Formal instruction programs.
Regular weekly/monthly unification points centered around ritualism/holy days.
A large body of diverse intrests shared by a multitude of people all from differing backgrounds with similar yet different motivations.

For me in particular a connection with a group and the sharing and recieving that involves in communication, being a one man band for so long is making me very egotistical, and not in a good way, far too self absorbed and up my own, a hole. also i think it will be very challenging for me.
 
 
osymandus
13:22 / 26.08.05
True GL and from a written POV i can see that .

It's still better then writing out its meaning everytime mind .
In refernce to the original request. Go fro it all good reasons. Just take teh plunge , it might not be what you want but till you try you don't know ;-)
 
 
erisian
18:55 / 06.09.05
Wait, can I seriously get some old people to give me a free laptop by joining their order?
 
  
Add Your Reply