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Use of violence and harrassment by animal rights groups.

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invisible_al

20:59 / 13.09.05

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the fact that it wasn't just the farmer that was being intimdated, it wasn't just their family, it was everyone who supplied them. It was pubs, shops, their bank and then the protestors moved onto people who supplied those shops in some cases.

I personally don't think that animal testing falls under the 'stop by any means necessary' category. A friends sister is a scientist who has in the past worked on projects that included animal experimentation. She and all her colleagues cannot stand up and talk about their work without being targeted for campaigns of harrassment. In this case the cure is quite definately worse than the disease IMHO.

sdv (non-human)

21:41 / 13.09.05

Was it right for the American philosopher to be deported under the terrorism laws because he supported animal rights ?

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

07:29 / 14.09.05

Totally not, imho. (Although there's a whole 'nother free speech argument tying in to that one as well).

Evil Scientist

08:01 / 14.09.05

Depends really. Could we have a little more information on the particular incident?

Without knowing anything about the case I'd say it would be wrong to deport him simply because he was a supporter of animal rights. However, a lot of Western countries are starting to crack down on people who advocate use of violence as a way of achieving political and social change. So if he was actually encouraging violence by animal rights groups, well then I'd say there might be a case for deportation.

Axolotl

10:07 / 14.09.05

Yeah, I mean should he be deported for supporting animal rights? Definitely not.
Should he be deported for encouraging violence against those involved in animal testing? That's a whole different question, and one I'd be more inclined to say yes to. I'm not saying I would say yes, but there's definitely a case for doing so. I mean you get deported for encouraging racially motivated violence or religiously motivated violence, but as Stoatie says that's an entirely new debate to be had.

w1rebaby

14:47 / 14.09.05

He wasn't deported, he was barred from entry.

Brief Guardian piece

sdv (non-human)

15:53 / 14.09.05

fridgemagnet,

thanks - the principle however is the same.

Axolotl

15:54 / 14.09.05

So it's much more like banning Louis Farrakhan entry, who isn't allowed in the country as he poses "a significant threat to public order" (from the BBC ).

w1rebaby

18:18 / 14.09.05

Well, the principle isn't quite the same; deporting somebody could imply that they'd lived here for a while and were legal residents, which is a greater injustice than just not letting them in.

I think the whole thing is bullshit though. It was said at the time that anti-terrorism legislation would end up being used against protestors, and indeed it has been quite regularly, in fact almost exclusively. And AR protestors are a threat to some of the Blair government's fave corporations.

I speak as somebody who has worked in places where bomb threats have been made by AR types incidentally, and can't stand a lot of the more vocal elements of the movement, but general civil rights are more important than my dislike of SHAC. I'm hardly a fan of the BNP but I don't want to see the government have powers to arbitrarily close parties down.

sdv (non-human)

21:25 / 14.09.05

It seems however that the first use of the new anti-terrorist powers has been against those who are more directly a part of the 'movement of movements' rather than the (reactionary) 'revolutionary islamists' who have been decided that terrorising us, both actually and through the media will guarantee them a place in heaven.

I think that animal rights groups do and should be understood as being a necessary element of the movement of movements but agree that the use of violent terrorist activity is wrong and unjustifiable... but the same should be said about the volume of threats raised against the animal rights activists by the state and media --- surely ?

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