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Survival horror.

 
  

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The Return Of Rothkoid
23:50 / 23.08.05
So. I'm starting (again, as I never completed the first one) to go through the entire Silent Hill franchise. And I thought that it'd be interesting to hear what people think about Survival Horror games. Are they well done? Too cheesy? Utter shit? What? Which are best, and what makes a good one?

I like what I've played (so far) of Silent Hill. Even with the limits of PSX graphics, it's uniquely scary - though the fuck-off thumping soundtrack could have something to do with that, as well.

Also playing Project Zero, which is also known as Fatal Frame, which I think is pretty slow - though effective when the shocks come. Most effective (so far) that I've discovered in this genre though is (Forbidden) Siren, which is by the same designer as SH, I believe. It's got the undead, it's got sightjacking, it's got a skewed storyline - and it's got the most unforgiving damage system I've come across. It's more... real? ... than the others, despite horrific voice acting.

I don't know. I prefer some of these games to FPSers, though it seems that when they do get into "battle" mode, they can be difficult out of all scale with what's gone before. Frustrating, but.. hell, maybe I just prefer the narratives.

What about you?
 
 
pythagore
01:32 / 24.08.05
Well, Silent Hill will always stand out as one of the greatest Survival Horror gameseries, but the two last installments have made me worry about the future. The first two were great, the third not very much so and the fourth one was pretty lame for the most part.

The first game was good because it was first, it created something we had never seen in a game before. The second one was, in my view, even better than the first because of the psychological twist that added depth and character to the game. Just take that long, winding road in the beginning - it was horribly scary, even though nothing really happened. A friend of mine never got past that part.

But when the third was released, it was getting old. It went from being subtle to annoyingly "in your face". The fourth one was even worse, even though the sequences that took place in the Room (in firstpersonview) were really well made.
 
 
Triplets
01:50 / 24.08.05
Silent Hill: Honestly, what a game. After Resident Evil this was the first horror game to make scares creepy rather than just SUPRISE!ing. The intro, where you're just trying to find your daughter and things start to go... wrong but you keep pressing forward and suddenly there are babies with arms for knives coming out of the wall and oh fuck you're dead.

Then you wake up.

A rich universal mythology (both cosmic and city-wide) made the game that much more immersive. I've read the plot analysis' out there and even though I finished the game in a bleary eyed state over 12 hours I'm not sure I'd started to scratch the surface on what had really been going on in Silent Hill.

The in-game conceits it twisted to use atmosphere were brilliant. The in-game radar becoming a buzzing 2-way radio, the map edge made to look like a yawning chasm into the neverdeep and the limited ability of the PSX to show distant outdoor scenery turned into a horrible churning fog where things are lurking just out of sight... until your radio goes off.

The enemies too were horrible. Did anyone else notice the enemies ran along the lines of the corruption of childhood and infection? You had horrible mutant (m)animals, along with fucked up ghost-foetuses and infected zombie nurses with bulbous humps filled with putrid ichor. The final boss, though, was totally shit and spent 90% of the fight hovering where the awkward camera couldn't see it. Bad Konami.

Points for the best intro music of all time. I used to pop the cd into my PS just to listen.

"Daddy..?" brr

Will talk about Resident Evil 2 tomorrow.
 
 
pythagore
08:27 / 24.08.05
The final boss, though, was totally shit and spent 90% of the fight hovering where the awkward camera couldn't see it. Bad Konami.

The bosses in Silent Hill in general are quite lousy.
 
 
Lord Morgue
10:01 / 24.08.05
Anyone remember the original Alone in the Dark? Or Dark Seed?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
11:07 / 24.08.05
Funny you should mention that: I've got a three-disc collection of the first three games here on my desk. I know you can get the first two through abandonware sites - Dosbox will run them pretty well on a modern PC. I loved the Lovecraftian overtones...
 
 
Tezcatlipoca
12:44 / 24.08.05
Or Dark Seed?

Haven't seen that for years. I had a copy on Amiga when it first came out, and remember being enthralled by the visuals (Giger supplied the art backdrops, IIRC), and the - then - groundbreaking digital speech files.

In terms of other games, I'd actually throw Looking Glass Studio's System Shock II into this genre. The setting of a massive interstellar starship, suspect research, a mad computer, and journal entries of the day to day lives and relationships of the now slaughtered, or worse, mutated, crew members, was a masterstroke, and very atmospheric.
 
 
Triplets
13:35 / 24.08.05
If you want creepy: I fell in love with Dark Seed around the age of 10 or 11 and I've never actually played it. From the reviews all I needed to know was: Lovecraftian? Giger? A flawed protagonist doubting his own sanity? Horrors from outside time and space? Check. A victory for high concept, there. (I tried playing it last year but my 2004-era machine turned it's nose up at it, "Retro? Why don't you just try boot disking me with a dinosaur cock").
 
 
hanabius yamamura
16:58 / 24.08.05
re (I tried playing it last year but my 2004-era machine turned it's nose up at it, "Retro? Why don't you just try boot disking me with a dinosaur cock").

... sorry to thread-rot but the above made me laugh out loud at the wondrous image of your pc it conjured up
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:10 / 24.08.05
Dark Seed was another classic I remember fondly from the days of the Amiga. Creepy as fuck.

I'm a bit odd about the term "survival horror" though... I know what games it means, but I've always thought it a little arbitrary. I'm guessing it's one of these translated-from-Japanese thinga like "heroic bloodshed", which is why it sounds a little stilted. Horror games are among my favourite, no matter what the genre- there's no better way of finding you've become immersed in something than realising you've just shat yourself.

Can a point-and-click (DarkSeed) count as SH? Does Doom 3 count? Urban Dead?

And most importantly, why's nobody mentioned The Suffering yet?
 
 
Lord Morgue
11:20 / 25.08.05
Penny Arcade strip
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:26 / 25.08.05
Is The Suffering any good, Stoatie? I was thinking about giving it a whirl recently, but remember it getting mediocre reviews.

Rothkoid> Project Zero/Fatal Frame was a game that I thought was really effective in getting the feeling of fear across. Where the Resi series has always been more of a splatterfest, relying on jump scares and gore for the 'horror', PZ is highly effective at creating an atmosphere of sheer terror. Partly it's the way that you're naked against the ghosts that attack you, with only a camera for protection and the best way of getting rid of them being to wait until the very last second before they grab you.

Mainly it's the direction - the camera angles are all well chosen (something which a lot of survival horror titles seems to have forgotten is that static cmera angles weren't just originally used because of technical limitations, but also because they could heighten the atmosphere), audio - bar the voice acting, which is as bad as in every other title in the genre - has you on edge constantly and the few jump scares, when they come, are timed to perfection. The design of the ghosts is imspired - the kimono woman, with her snapped neck and head hanging limply bacwards, is particularly memorable, running towards you all back-to-front.

It's just a shame that it's got some major faults as a game. At one point, an essential puzzle item is hidden from the player's view by the choice of camera angle, meaning that a trip to GameFAQs is required to discover what you're missing. There's also a huge increase in difficulty at one section, which is where most people seem to give up. In fact, I don't know a single person who's bothered finishing it.

Alone in the Dark always had that horrible cold-sweat feeling running through it. Despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that the visuals aren't advanced enough to put the information across, you always knew that the wallpaper in the mansion was covered in a layer of greasy nastiness, that there was a hint of rotten flesh in the air. Angular zombies in plush purple smoking jackets are just wrong. One bit, in particular, has always stuck in my mind as truly unnerving - finally managing to fire up the gramophone and entering the ballroom to discover the gowns and tuxedos waltzing around on their own. No attempt to every give a full explanation as to why that was happening - there are a lot of things in that game which current survival horror titles would do well to go back and learn from.

There is one game which takes AitD's Lovecraft feel and brings it to the current gen - Eternal Darkness. The mansion in that feels very similar to AitD's, it has the same theme of edler gods and a cavernous, deserted world of alien spires and cathedrals buried underneath our own. Unfortunately, it never manages to properly unsettle the player, although it does have a couple of nasty jump scares and the fun insanity system - your sanity slowly and constantly depletes, and can only be topped up by disposing of zombies and whatnot with a finishing move. As it drips away, the lines between the player and the game become blurred. Most of the insanity effects are little more than cool gimmicks - a fly will crawl across the screen, or the screen will try and fool you into thinking that you've sat on the remote and turned the sound down. Some are just downright stupid - a statue turning its head to follow you around. A few, though, are inspired.

It's also a game with a very strong narrative, that manages to suck the player right into its world. Told through flashbacks to the mansion's past, with the player taking on the roles of the main characters mentioned in the journal documenting the building's history and playing out events which have already happened. It's just a pity that there's nothing all that horrific about it.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:55 / 25.08.05
I thought The Suffering was great- to start with (I was playing it on the PC) I found it a little hard to get into, as it felt a bit "consoley", being a pretty direct port, as far as I can tell, and the controls didn't feel right. I mean, it's not like TEH BEST GAME EVAH or owt, but it's lots of fun, and some of it is genuinely creepy- it has a good few "I'm glad nobody else was in the house to hear me shout JESUS!!! just then" moments.

I'm certainly looking to pick up a cheap copy on the XBox (never did finish it) and loking forward to the upcoming sequel.
 
 
hanabius yamamura
22:14 / 25.08.05
... some very brief thoughts as I a. have to get up early for work soon and b. want to re-read the thread again when I'm not knacked ... anyway ...

... definitely agree as mentioned above, as I think i may have said in another thread, re SH4 being a bit naff ... SH2 just rocks amazingly and (as well as some amazing piano-type theme music that, if memory serves, runs in the rolling trailer if you let the game idle long enough without starting a game etc) the cut scenes e.g in the jail cell when you're really starting to think 'what the f@ck's goin' on' ... ace!

... have to say I loved project zero 1 - haven't played pz2:crimson butterfly yet - pz1 being the only game I've ever paused to nip through and tell the wife how much I was sh#ttin' it i.e. lovin' it!

... more to follow a demain
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
10:06 / 26.08.05
The Suffering was fantastic. Superbly constructed levels, imaginative monstroum and, yeah, some really scary moments. The only problem I had with it was the same as I've had with most survival horror games of that type; it gets less scary as you go along. Once you've got a handle on the game mechanics and are more comfortable with the controls and the way the game operates, the shocks dissipate a bit. I found the same problem with RE2.

It's actually a bit closer to a shoot 'em up game as well. There's little in the way of puzzle solving but an awful lot of beasties to despatch. Progress is rarely slowed down for any time at all making it a very satisfying game to play.

I'd certainly recommend trying it out, but not if you after something to strain the grey matter. Buy if you like shocks and shooting.

Any more news on the sequel?
 
 
wicker woman
12:27 / 26.08.05
Silent Hill, for me, is easily the best among the genre, although admittedly I have yet to try either of the Fatal Frame games.

Easily one of the creepiest moments for me in that series came in 2, where you fight the four-legged-and-nothing-else creatures at the beginning. Having beaten one to the ground, I walked up towards it when suddenly, with that nasty little sound it makes, started scuttling all over the ground and under a nearby car... I stayed on that screen for at least a couple minutes making sure the bastard wasn't coming back out.

Seeing the pyramid-headed guy seemingly molesting one of those 4-legged creatures was a little off-putting, though.

Ms. Triplets, you might be interested to know that the enemies in the SH series are supposed to be reflective of the main characters' particular pyschosis, apparently. Which is why, in 2,

SPOILER







































you got those putrid, infected nurses and doctors was because of your character's horror over his wife's growing illness and his final suffocation of her.
























SPOILER (and post) END
 
 
Lord Morgue
04:18 / 27.08.05
And this is better than my black box for spoiler idea HOW?
 
 
Triplets
06:54 / 27.08.05
Uh.
 
 
wicker woman
10:59 / 27.08.05
And this is better than my black box for spoiler idea HOW?

I've suggested as much (well, more along the lines of a [hide][/hide] tag), but it didn't sound like there's been the free time to implement it. I certainly don't enjoy spacing out that much area for a spoiler. (didn't actually mean to put that much space, but...)
 
 
Lord Morgue
09:05 / 28.08.05
Anyone played "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream", from the old Harlan Ellison story? I hear Ellison did AM's voice himself.
 
 
netbanshee
05:03 / 31.08.05
Hmmm... Survival Horror. Love the stuff. Some of the most intense gaming experiences you can get on a console or PC, in my opinion.

I've been focused on work stuff lately so I'm really not able to play a narrative that I can get into. It kinda irks me since I want to get a hold of the Fatal Frame series (I will do this one day, E.R.D.) after I get done with my fading save from RE4.

I love Silent Hill. Glad to hear that there's a good feel for the first title here since the PS1 graphics can minimize the experience for some people. I got into the series from the second one but was still impressed quite a bit when I went to the first. Akira Yamaoka has always done a splendid job with the audio. Between the melancholy rhythms to the stammering industrial noise, you really get enveloped in the exploration of things. Pocket-light on and radio whining away. All the layers really do add up. I hit up the Silent Hill Forum on occasion to see what's up with news and observations, but they have (had) a good OST archive to get a listen before you think of picking up a game soundtrack for yourself.

One game that has caught my attention is Condemned: Criminal Origins for Xbox 360. I am waiting in anticipation for the ps3 console more, but this one has me wondering about upcoming MS titles. From what I''ve gathered so far, you're in the FBI unit that tracks and "apprehends" serial killers. Since it's a Sega-style FPS w/ forensic abilities, it might have the right amount of oomph to make it a good Survival Horror title. Check out the video in the link.
 
 
Lord Morgue
13:52 / 31.08.05
Just found a copy of Dark Seed at an abandonware site.
FUN! It's like an old Sierra point and click game. Can't get the audio to work yet, but I want that house.
 
 
Shrug
14:39 / 31.08.05
I think, like possibly others here, my first true experience of survival horror occurred with Resident Evil on the PS. And I think, like Dupre suggested above, alot of its success had to do with choice of camera angle and perspective to create tension.
I remember in particular a skewed overhead shot of a long corridor filled with crows and the chill as the black flapping wings began to obscure your view. Then of course that stupendous moment when after much dull exploration ,completely lulled into a sense of security, two lithe and bloody hounds of hell burst through the adjacent windows (I think the one game moment that has ever made me jump although now it is cliche).

Another survival horror that I enjoyed purely I think for it's plundering of Lovecraftian ideas was Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem. The Sanity meter was also well implemented idea, the tricks it played wholey designed to reach out and startle the player. Has anyone else played this?

The most recent edition to the genre I've played has been R4 on the Gamecube which I think solves the problem that I've had with survival horrors previously i.e it avoids becoming a mixture of good actioner and bad rpg and just goes full force survival horror. The game is full of little touches, grotesqueries and the rustic dilapidated settings and sheer magnitude of the zombie horde give the games earlier stages a real sense of menace. Later when the initial discomfort of "Te Voy a Matar!!!" being shrieked by 10 leatherface lookalikes wears off the action becomes even more manic with teh big guns being introduced and the plot isn't even awful!

Also (what I would consider very mild spoilers)

There's a brilliant scene in the games later stages where from a large ornate peer overlooking a grand hall you have to sharpshoot your compadre free and then protect the poor weaponless dear from the encroaching zombies.

Anyone know of any other competent SH's on the Gamecube?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:14 / 31.08.05
There's the remake of the first RE - that's pretty good. Looks wonderful and has some nice additions and alterations compared to the original, even if it does still have all the same problems. Constant wandering backwards and forwards to item boxes because you've put the wrong thing into your inventory, limited and fairly random combat, that sort of thing. The vast improvement in the looks really carries it along despite these issues.

Keep away from Resident Evil Zero, though. It's a bit of a stinker. Manages to take the worst parts of the old games - the aforementioned pointless back-and-forth wandering, the rubbish gunplay - and, remarkably, makes them even more problematic than they were to begin with.
 
 
Lord Morgue
10:03 / 01.09.05
Clive Barker's "The Undying" is another one I've been meaning to try. Has anyone else?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
06:27 / 02.09.05
Oh yes, Undying... I never got very far in it (found a cheap copy of System Shock 2 in Computer Exchange which kind of distracted me) but I remember it being pretty cool. There was something very House On The Borderland about it, as I recall.

Hmm. May have to reinstall that one.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
06:24 / 03.09.05
And I've just ordered a cheap copy of Project Zero (the first one... I figure I may as well play 'em in order) hopefully it'll turn up just as I (hopefully) get to the end of Silent Hill 2.
 
 
netbanshee
05:16 / 07.09.05
OOOooo... end of SH2, huh? Let us know what you think of it... as well as what ending you got.

The only thing I have to say about the RE1 remake that I didn't like, was the sporadic load times. I looked at the disc surface just to make sure that it wasn't a physical defect, but the loading times and skipping during sequences broke the action up for me way too much. And everyone knows how disrupting the suspension of disbelief can really affect horror titles...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:00 / 07.09.05
I'm fairly flummoxed in the hotel, tbh...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:52 / 08.09.05
Finished it this afternoon.
Without giving spoilers in case anyone's been even more remiss than me in getting round to playing such an old classic, the ending I got was called "In-Water"... according to a hints site I may or may not have had some help from, it's the hardest to get, because you have to "act suicidal" through the game... make of that what you will.
 
 
netbanshee
01:44 / 09.09.05
So what do you think of it, Stoat? Granted this isn't a SH thread, but I think that sharing reactions, etc. might broaden or kick out some things that reflect well or poorly for the genre.

I still remember the "long walk into town" on my parents old projection tv with the home theatre on, half-drunk and cold in the middle of the night being one of my spookier horror moments.

Beyond that... I just got SH2 (and Ico) back from my friend yesterday and I'm thinking of doing some reliving.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
01:56 / 09.09.05
I loved it... found the camera fairly troublesome, but I always do with fixed-camera games. But the sound, man... the sound was what made it for me. Once fixed, that music box was just... deeply spooky about sums it up.

Funny... I've now experienced nightmares with save points in them. That was odd.

Project Zero should be arriving in my postbox any day now... I think I'll pass the time with SH4, though I've been warned to expect disappointment.
 
 
netbanshee
17:16 / 09.09.05
Glad to hear you liked it. If you haven't had the chance to play the first one, you might want to check it out. It seems, generally speaking, that if you're a fan of SH2, the jump down in graphics to the original is bearable. The story, though somewhat similar on the surface, is quite good. You'll be reading faqs on it after completion, I assure you. And the beginning sequence is also gold.

SH4 is the only one I didn't play all the way through. Granted, some of it had to do with my schedule at the time, but you'll notice the repetition in worlds getting a bit tedious as you get through the game. I didn't find the FPV in the apartment to be a bad thing. Since it was a separate experience from the rest of the game, I think it holds up.

I hear that there was some rumbling for a full on FPV game for SH5, but that kind of worries me. Like ERD mentioned before on the board, when you're playing as a character in 3rd person view, it helps you observe and understand them better. Unless of course, Konami pulls something off that works. I guess we'll see.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:13 / 09.09.05
Only 2 and 4 available on the Xbox, unfortunately...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:20 / 10.11.05
Surprised nobody on the 'lith's talking about Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners Of The Earth. I'm only a couple of hours in, but it's creepy as hell (it's taken me a week to get this far, as I keep falling asleep in the evenings and I've been trying to restrict playing it to the hours of darkness so I can turn off the lights and play it to full effect).

It's loosely based (so far at any rate) on The Shadow Over Innsmouth, but with a nice (and creepy) prologue giving some indication as to why your character (a private detective) is, frankly, batshit before the main adventure even begins.

Like the RPG, it relies heavily on the Sanity mechanism, with some nice audio-visual and controller effects. Plays like an FPS, but I have yet to find a weapon of any kind, and best of all, it was clearly written by people who love HPL- it's not your standard horror game with some references to the Great Old Ones chucked in, the story itself is very much in the style of HP (or, to be more accurate, of the CoC RPG).

So, two questions: first, is snyone else enjoying it as much as I am, and second, what the FUCK do I do when they come to kill me in my hotel room?
 
  

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