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Clean house and save space?

 
 
semioticrobotic
20:40 / 09.08.05
I know Tom just migrated us all to a new server for reasons having to do more so with problems of bandwidth and reliability than with overall storage space, but hear me out.

I was fipping through the member directory today and it occured to me that there are tons of users in the database that have had memberships for years and not posted once. No topics, no responses. Nothing. I was just looking through the other 'B' users, and I noticed pages of folks with '0s' in all columns. Some have had memberships for about two years and haven't acted at all.

If database size and reliability are issues, would it make sense to trim some fat from the database and remove those who have had membership for years and never posted anything? New members (like me) are beginning to sign up as a result of the fantastic efforts of those here. Need we make room, and make the number at the top of the home page more accurately reflect the number of users active?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:16 / 10.08.05
This has been brought up several times before, by me for once, and Tom said it's not so much the size of any of the databases or files or anything, the problem was that we were just so gosh darn popular that too many people were trying to access all at once. Hopefully the move has sorted this problem out too.
 
 
Smoothly
15:18 / 10.08.05
Hopefully the move has sorted this problem out too.

We do still seem to be having SQL problems reasonably regularly. Dunno if there *is* something more we can do.
 
 
semioticrobotic
15:59 / 10.08.05
And I would hate to laden more people with more clerical tasks, but it seems to me a little house cleaning would alleviate some of our troubles.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:34 / 10.08.05
I don't think it would. The space taken up on a server by the information about a dead suit is tiny. And, since the dead suit is not viewing pages, it has no effect on bandwidth usage. So, there is no compelling technical argument for removing inert suits.

There may be a case for doing so in order to provide a more accurate picture of how many people are actually active on Barbelith at present, but that's another matter, and it would be best not to confuse the two.
 
 
--
16:35 / 10.08.05
You can trim me off the list. Really. Please. I'm begging you.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:41 / 10.08.05
There's advice on how to stop being able to post in the thread you started in the Conversation, Sypha.
 
 
--
16:47 / 10.08.05
Yeah, that doesn't work out for me.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:49 / 10.08.05
What, you have no eyelids? Try it, and stop seeking attention.
 
 
semioticrobotic
16:53 / 10.08.05
Makes sense to me, Haus. So what does everyone think about trimming the directory so that it's just a better reflection of the 'active' community?
 
 
*
16:58 / 10.08.05
I actually was thinking of requesting this because it makes the member database difficult to use, since there is no (easy, convenient) way of sorting the database by date or anything like that.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:00 / 10.08.05
I'd ask what benefit is achieved to justify the time it would take, basically. We can tell about how many people are contributing to Barbelith in a manner relevant to us just by reading the board. Why worry about how many people have at some point or other registered a suit?

Then there's the question of how to hierarchise. Has a suit that posted ten times but hasa not been used since July 2003 have more or less right to exist than a suit that was registered in May of this year but has yet to post at all? How about a suit that was registered in June 2003 and has only posted three times, but with one of those being last week? We'd need to work that out before proceeding.

The systematic destruction of suits has been proposed before as a way to get rid of potential spare suits held by trolls, but that is neither very efficient (as a troll could post a couple of times to save that suit's existence for later) or currently a particular problem...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
17:00 / 10.08.05
The only problem with that Bryan is that Tom is the only one that can do it...
 
 
semioticrobotic
17:01 / 10.08.05
I agree, sentimentity.
 
 
semioticrobotic
17:03 / 10.08.05
Haus- I think the easiest thing to do first off would be to simply look at the suits that have no active history -- not one post or topic in their existence. Then, check the yeat the suit was registered. If it's been two year (or more) without any activity at all, then I'd say it's safe to chuck.

Any activity at all, over any period of time, is grounds for keeping the suit. I'm just proposing expunging all the suits that have never registered any activity whatsoever.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:06 / 10.08.05
OK - and why? What do you gain except a slightly different number of members at the top of the page, which still has no real relationship to the number of people who post on Barbelith. I'd like to have a clearer idea of the benefits here before we lengthen Tom's to do list - Sentimentity, perhaps you could tell us more about how you use the user database?
 
 
Tom Coates
17:07 / 10.08.05
I hope this doesn't sound too blunt, but what you're proposing is quite a lot of fiddly work in the guts of the database, where if I make a misstep, I delete lots of important things that keep the place functioning. And given that I genuinely can't see any value in it whatsoever (except people feeling some sense of order), I can't really justify the work. I hope you guys understand. If I do work around the place it'll be on things like improving the registration mechanism - and even that's a way off at the moment...
 
 
Tom Coates
17:14 / 10.08.05
While I'm at it - it's probably worth giving you some sense of the scale of the data that would be saved. That last sentence I wrote is basically roughly the same amount of data that a user name takes up, including all its other fields across every table in the database. At most, I'd save about a thousand of those across the whole database. In contrast, Barbelith has 480,000 posts in the database, pretty much all of them longer than one line. It has 36,000 completed moderation tasks stored in the database and 70,000 private messages. Every post that is deleted still has to be kept for legal reasons, every private message similarly - so that's 20,000 deleted private messages and 7,000 deleted posts from the main board that no one sees that we're still saving. In the meantime, we're still - after seven (?) years - still only using half of my storage on the server. The amount of space saved by getting rid of a thousand user names would be ridiculously trivial and - frankly - would be more expensive in terms of my time (if I were to bill for it) than it would save in the next hundred years.
 
 
semioticrobotic
17:21 / 10.08.05
Say no more, Tom. I had no idea my proposition would involve so mcuh intricate and time-consuming work for one person; I thought it might be a matter of a few mods having a systematic look at the database, checking a few checkboxes, and pressing 'delete' once or twice.

Since the size of the database doesn't present any technical difficulties, the only reason I'd still press for this clean-up would be, as you said, a desire for more order. But even that isn't worth your slaving away on miniscule bits and bytes. The most active members of Barbelith quickly rise to the top of the user database (I'm on page 1 of the top-posting 'B's' after only a few months on the board), so navigating it isn't that tough.
 
 
*
17:40 / 10.08.05
Ah, okay, no big deal.

(I was looking through the member-accessible portion of the database to find the newest members, in the hopes that someone I recommended a month or two ago had gotten on the board without my noticing. But there didn't seem to be an easy way to sort all the records by date joined, nor to, say, flip to the last page. Am I just being an idiot?)
 
 
Bed Head
17:48 / 10.08.05
Voila: The newest members, on the last page.
 
 
*
19:04 / 10.08.05
Thank you. I was being an idiot.

%Obviously I don't belong here, please ban me.%
 
  
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