BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


How Do You Combat Homophobia With Magick???

 
 
macrophage
21:05 / 05.08.05
Living on a council estate as you do I come across alot of people who harbour homophobic views. How far do you think this goes to as in regards to people using derogatory labelling, I mean don't you hate people that keep saying "faggot weirdo" who seem hypnotised into their monogamist heterosexualised nuclear family lives? How can you bind it if you can, and can you combat it with virulent self-replicating viral servitors to host into the psychosphere?? Speaking as a bisexual who has encountered fag-bashing on two differernt ocassions, how do you engage against this form of hatred? I never thought that Homophobia was that current but you would get surprised!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
07:45 / 06.08.05
Ah. So you're bisexual now, are you? Jolly good. Guess that makes the homophobic language you've used elsewhere in this forum acceptable then. (To be fair, this is one of the less offense threads you've started here. It's just lame.)

macrophage/quimper666, you've been invited on a number of occasions to adapt your behaviour and work with the board. You haven't done that. What you have done is start offensive thread after offensive thread and post lengthy chunks of... well, crap, frankly, to otherwise perfectly good threads. I'm sure there are people here who are prepared to tolerate this kind of thing. I'm not. Whatever its faults, this is one of the best fora of its kind on the internet and I for one am not going to sit back and watch you track shit all over it.

Let me point out once more: Barbelith's registration is now closed. If you lose this suit, you'd have to go through a vetting procedure to get back on the board. In light of this, you might want to attempt to act like a rational adult in future.

I am taking this to the Policy now.
 
 
Lurid Archive
09:16 / 06.08.05
I realise that this is a triumph of hope over experience, but I've disagreed the move as a temporary measure, until we see if this thread actually has anything to offer the Temple.

I'm not sure exactly how it would go, but it might be interesting to hear if people have any views on combatting prejudice in an educative way. That is, if you combat prejudice by exposure, how do you facilitate that exposure. How do you make it easy for others to change. Or, if worst comes to worst, what body language do you use to avoid conflict? Aren't there lots of questions of this nature that the Temple could profitably address?
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
12:17 / 06.08.05
I don't think the Temple is the best venue for this discussion, because it doesn't really have anything to do with "Religion, mysticism, neo-paganism and Chaos Magick". Yes Corpophage* seems to think that "virulent self-replicating viral servitors" would help council-estate toughs get in touch with their sensitive side, so this is a Temple topic (plus th Temple seems to be his preffered Trolling site) but it's really a discussion we should be having in Headshop.

* Is there any way to change Macrophage's screen name to 'Coprophage'? It'd be a great punishment for talking shit.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
12:25 / 06.08.05
Coprophage.

I *heart* Phex.
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:05 / 06.08.05
homosexuality

Looking at the article heracles, achilles and figures of the common imagination would be figures to work with, perhaps make use of the notion of the achilles heal, really depends how you work as a person, personally id suggest erecting a temple structure and dilligently revering a chosen hero or god to act on your behalf.

Another point thou is this, i live on a council estate and i see it becoming more tolerant rather than less as i do with teenagers and there attitudes, it seems to me to be a few pockets of hatred that exsist which tend to embody the values of racism, sexism and homophobia. I cant see that they have much of a life span left in the face of the feelings i percieve around me.
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:19 / 06.08.05
IF this thread is locked or whatever, can we continue this else where as it would be good to examine spiritual and cultural attitudes and magickal practice in relationship to homosexuality in my opinion.
 
 
--
14:24 / 06.08.05
It probably doesn't help that some magical systems are homophobic themselves.
 
 
Anthony
15:03 / 06.08.05
i think you just resign to the fact that the world is full of people who are full of shit and hope that maybe a thousand years down the line, if we survive that long, things might be a little better
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:20 / 06.08.05
Lesbians in a Strange Land

Phaborinos the Hermaphrodite Sophist of Arles

THE TOMB of NIANKHKHNUM and KHNUMHOTEP


GLBT Resources ashe
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:33 / 06.08.05
Never resign to anything, find new ways to fight, sometimes they might go contrary to what fighting is considered to be, but never give up, never resign, unless the submission serves your purpose in a fight, sacrafice a battle to win a war. but keep fighting till everything is equally free. its possible in my life time as it is yours.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:54 / 06.08.05
two-spirit life
 
 
Unconditional Love
16:06 / 06.08.05
"Thus the blasphemy of the homosexual formula, for it denies Babalon and breeds devils in chaos."- Kenneth Grant

well sypha kenny g just plays a bigoted sax mate.

Breeding Devils in Chaos: Homosexuality & the Occult
 
 
--
18:47 / 06.08.05
Yes, that's one of Grant's fatal flaws, I think... His inability to be able to deal with his own homophobia. I find it funny that a man who doesn't seem to be phased by necrophilia or people mutating into beetles finds vanilla sodomy to be an abomination.... Oddly enough, many of his idols like Crowley, Rimbaud and Dali all practiced sodomy in one form or another, and Bertiaux's system seems to involve a lot of homosexual sex magic, but he never really acknowledges this. I also find it odd that man who talks about the literal mutation of the human species convinced one of the Typhonian OTO members (a guy who claimed to be an Egyptian priestess in a former like, I think his name was Jeffrey Evans) to abandon gender magic and not go through with a sex change operation. This is one example where I think Grant is horribly old-fashioned (the other major one is probably about his insistence that "rock music" will bring about the invasion of the qliphoth).

Dion Fortune, another occult writer I admire, also seemed to have a lot of issues with the topic of homosexuality.
 
 
macrophage
22:12 / 06.08.05
I think I give up. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong space, this is not the place for discourse like this. I aoplogise. Cyanora.
 
 
archim3des
19:18 / 08.08.05
make a bunch of photocopies of some really graphic Tom of Finland artwork, and just fucking paste them EVERYWHERE. I would say frame a small picture of Tom and put it on your end table, and give him a little thanks everyday for watching over our kind. make sure its a purple one.

the images themselves are pretty much mega hypersigils, having been "empowered" by legions of people over the past 50 some odd years since they've been in circulation. Most homophobes are usually just fucked up homosexuals whose cultural filter won't allow them to enact their desires. From what i've seen, most homophobic activity acts like really racist behavior, deeply ingrained subconcious activity which the conscious mind as subject to. When people see whatever it is that stands so stickingly against their ingrained prejudices, the conscious minds gets shut off by the powerful thought-killing emotions which come charging out of the unconscious. Constant exposure to really graphic pornography, especially in their living environment, would keep a lot of people in a highly charged state of subconscious reaction, so the images go straight down into the unconscious, instantaneous slight-of-mind. odds are the most psychotically homophobic will imprint these pictures on a very deep level, as their own neurotic homophobia comes from a very deep level of the psyche. Images like that could invade dreams, and much of the psychic life of the individual when not exposed to that. Lord only knows what could happen from there. I'd say pray to Tom, if anyone knows how to deal with homophobia, its him.

ps. don't get caught.
 
 
*
02:56 / 09.08.05
I'd say pray to Tom, if anyone knows how to deal with homophobia, its him.

What say, Mr. Coates? Do you mind a bunch of us Barbelithnianeroids praying to you?

archim3des, your suggestion appears to me counterproductive. I imagine upon further thought, you'll find you agree. If, as you assert, most homophobes experience homoerotic desire themselves, but for whatever reason fear and reject their own desires, I imagine Tom of Finland art (much of which is not only homoerotic but deals with leather, BDSM, kink, authority/domination, and other themes many people find deeply scary) would only reinforce their terror and feed the fear that gay men will force their sexuality on them. Besides, this does nothing about bigotry and discrimination against lesbian women.

Here's what magic the queer community has been working so far:
—Language reclamation. Words which have been used to wound and marginalized are being turned into weapons of power FOR gay people. This magic is being worked on words such as queer, fag, dyke, etc. Certain sections of American youth are trying to retaliate by colonizing the word gay and using it to mean something vaguely negative, but I expect like most youth slang this will fade out pretty rapidly. I recommend expanding the mandate to include words such as cocksucker. When the word cocksucker is a term of admiration, I'll feel like we're pretty close to my ideal world.
—Image alchemy. This is being used to both good and bad effect, I feel. We need more power over how our images are being propagated in widespread media. Assimilationists and queer pride types conflict over image alchemy tactics; even my exchange with archim3des can be seen as an outgrowth of this conflict. Left by the wayside are such people as young black male hip-hop artists who are sexually attracted to men, transwomen who are soft butch hippie dykes, and so forth, whose interests and images are not represented by either the queer pride contingent or the assimilationists. Variety seems to me to be the answer— defeat the stereotypes by providing so many different images of gay people that no one set of images dominates over any other. It's easier to hit a narrow target than a wide one with hate, and if "the gays" doesn't conjure one unified image anymore, it will be hard for people to be angry at or hate "the gays."
—Getting involved with religion. Religious groups are doing some powerful magic right now, particularly in America. Tapping into the stream of "religious freedom" may produce some useful results, particularly if we can encourage more liberal/moderate churches to speak out against gay marriage bans as an infringement of religious freedom. Some churches are doing so already— the UU, many meetings of the Society of Friends, the UCC, and MCC, all deserve our support. Encouraging the more liberal-minded Episcopals would also be helpful.

Some other things it would be helpful if we would start doing:

—Making sacrifice. I mean a visible offering of service. I want to see volunqueer* groups participating in service projects which have nothing directly to do with the queer community, and being visible but not in-your-face about it. Why? Because our reputation as selfish hedonists is not entirely undeserved by certain segments of our population, and the rest of us could be working to refute this label. By being people that others respect and admire, we build up a store of power we can use for projects of our own. In Northern traditions, I believe this is called building hamingja.
—Spreading our factual and mythic histories. First, we have to make sure that the histories we are telling are True, and that they are not hurting people. For instance, the Stonewall Riots are held to be the start of the Gay Liberation Movement in the US. In fact, the major participants in the Stonewall Riots were people who were transgender, and who many gay men now reject as not representative of their community. Similarly, there is disagreement over whether historical gender-transgressive cultural institutions are part of gay history or trans history; both groups feeling erased by the other when the other makes a claim on "their history." Let's get our stories together.
—Public rituals in which non-queer people of any background can participate comfortably. What flashed into my head was an image of many people, gay to straight and others, placing stones, coins, flowers, and other meaningful trinkets into a fountain which symbolizes the freedom of love. I'm sure more experienced ritualists can come up with something more complex and just as effective.

Granted, none of this is hermetic or chaos magic or even plain ol wicca. I don't care. Combating homophobia in society is social engineering magic, and sometimes the techniques of that have more to do with manipulating the mass media than wanking over a sigil.

*On volunqueers: I know there is an organization of this name in the UK. I know very little about them, but I got in touch with them by email and asked if it would be alright if I used the name for a group in the US. I received this permission from someone. (I hope it was someone with the appropriate authority!) The US VolunQueers await formation until I can clear enough time to devote to the project.
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
14:52 / 09.08.05
sentimentity,

nice post.

wrt Language Reclamation, I've heard "queer" used to describe the position that one (however one defines oneself) likes who one likes. Sometimes they can be the same gendre, sometimes different. Our aesthetics are as varied as we.

in the light of liking who you like, we're all queer, yes? If we're all queer, then who are we trying to make other?

ttfn
tenix
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:13 / 09.08.05
I am reminded of Queterosexual, the winged serpent.
 
 
*
17:46 / 09.08.05
On the topic of queterosexuality and self-definition: I am quite fond of Hanne Blank's notion of 'sovreign sexuality'.

Applicable quote: ...being sovereign means that I have absolute power to determine the boundaries of my own sexual self, without question or appeal, at all times. It means I have not only the right, but the obligation, to defend my boundaries -- boundaries are not pre-existing natural features like mountain ranges or oceans, they are lines we draw in the sand... It means that I may choose to form allegiances and alliances with other sovereign entities based on their willingness to enter into a contract of mutual support of one another's sovereignty. It means that I may characterize my sovereignty in whatever manner seems most appropriate, using any and all of the words and names that seem to fit: bisexual, pansexual, queer, kinky, polyamorous, femme, right-handed, female, feminist, whatever.

Straight people also have sovreign sexuality, and a vested interest in helping everyone retain the right to define and defend the borders of our sexuality. So I see this as a way of building a coalition of people with all kinds of sexuality, in the name of freedom to love whom we will.

I suppose this fits better in the bisexuality thread in headshop, but the queterosexual reminder put me in mind of it. Anyone have better ideas as to how we might defend sovreign sexuality of all kinds with magic?
 
  
Add Your Reply