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The Chaos Engine and other Steampunk games

 
 
Peach Pie
12:50 / 05.08.05
Does anyone remember this old Sega Megadrive game? It was about a world powerful machine built for the sake of good but (surprise surprise) it turned on its creator and put the whole earth at risk.

I used to play as the mad scientist. On *very* good days I managed to get to the final level, but the generator would wipe me out with impenetrable orbs of white heat. I decided at that point that the game was deliberately impossible to beat. Does anyone know different?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:57 / 05.08.05
(off-topic- could people remember to put topic summaries in when starting threads, please? They're kind of important both for searches and RSS feeds. Cheers!)

Yes, I remember the Chaos Engine. Bitmap Brothers, wasn't it? I had it on the Amiga, and by crikey, it was a great game. I loved the steampunk setting, and the out-of-the-ordinary character classes- navvie, thug and so on.

On paper, it was basically Gauntlet, wasn't it? But the gameplay was so well-tightened up, and the look and feel of the thing so nice, that it really did become something almost unique.

I was thinking about it the other day, funnily enough, and how someone could do a wonderful updating of it. Maybe as an FPS, although we've no shortage of those, really. I just loved the setting and atmosphere so much. But damn, it was tricky.

Are the Bitmaps still in business?
And why aren't there more steampunk games?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:09 / 05.08.05
I'd like a thread on Steampunk games - we coudl convert this one, or start a new one...
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
13:13 / 05.08.05
Too vauge - Final Fantasy VI is set in a Steampunkish world and it's an RPG, MUSHA: Robot Aleste on Mega Drive (awesome shooter) is Japanese steampunk and Chaos Engine is a Gauntlet type affair.


Unless you want to discuss the asthetic, in which case I'll shut up.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:37 / 05.08.05
Yes, Sparky. I wanted to discuss the aesthetic. Which games employ the setting, why it is not more popular, that kind of thing.

So, this thread or new thread? How much will is there to talk about the Chaos Engine (which, incidentally, I saw in a charity shop for the 486 quite recently...)?
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
14:42 / 05.08.05
Yes, Sparky.

:0

Is this you with your moderator hat on or are you just wearing one of those battery powered clapping things?

Regardless, if you do turn this into a steampunk thread (and it would be a shame, since this is a more natural fit for Bitmap Brothers games and top-down shmups and Gauntlet clones) you'll be having a weird old time: in my experience the asthetic has rarely been kept that pure. For example FF6 mixes some steampunkish looking armour with magic power sources (so it's not technically Steampunk but magi-punk). The richest vein would be shooter games - MUSHA Aleste sees anime robots fighting sentient feudal japanese technology, some of which is quite steampunky:



Wings of Wor/Gynog is a homoeroticly styled angel shmup/shooter/STG with a surrealist horror bent which leads to a few steampunkish bosses:







Steel Empire. This one features old school aircraft with a few high tech florishes:



Then there's always Super Mario Land 2:



(the Mario is clockwork, see?)

All in all, Steampunk isn't that widespread in games. Now and again it might be trotted out as some kind of a level motif, but I can't think of many purebred steampunk games (none, in fact). You could say the whole topic's kind of vauge.

One vote to keep this thread Bitmap Bros/Chaos Engine only.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
14:45 / 05.08.05


...and is it just me or does that thing look like George bloody Galloway>
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:03 / 05.08.05
Astonishingly, you've hit a new low, for the nascent Games and Gameplay forum if admittedly not personally. Maybe thinking you have ADD means you should try to post a bit less frenetically? You know, for therapy?

Ontopic post to follow.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
15:17 / 05.08.05
I just listed 3 games with the strongest cyberpunk themes running in them (since supprisingly few purebreds exist) I could think of. I bolded the titles. I went so far as to google for images. At the end I made a small joke.

If actually sorcing potential games for discussion, with appropriate visual reference counts as a new low then I'm honestly fumoxed as to what counts as even midding effort. Perhaps if I wrote a Metal Gear Solid 2 synopsis in iambic pentamiter?

Thank the lord insert credit has forums back up if this level of confrontation is going to be the norm around here - perhaps you should reconsider if you're up for moding this forum?
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
15:19 / 05.08.05
Or did you take offence to the use of the word "homoerotic"? If you did I should point out Wings of Wor is a forerunner to the legendary Choaniki series, which features overt homoerotic content.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:22 / 05.08.05
I was more commenting that moderators have only existed on this forum for about a fortnight and you are already trying to pick fights with them. Very impressive. Also that your response did not actually appear to be based on having read my post. Exerpted:

Hey, EL. Why not have a shufti at the topic discussing moderating the Games and Gameplay forum in the Policy? Only, we're a bit keen not to have pointless list threads. that's one reason why I asked why it is not more popular. I was hoping for a slightly better answer than it is not very popular. However, since the thread has now been moderated by a third party to include Steampunk, I suggest you start a new thread on the Bitmap Brothers, whose contribution to gaming is indeed considerable, if you want to push that.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:25 / 05.08.05
Also - steampunk, not cyberpunk. You keep using those terms interchangeably, which suggests you may be more interested in having a fight than in the topic.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
15:29 / 05.08.05
Rewind that a second. You took a shot at me ("sparky"). I made a small, inoffensive comeback then actually posted something of substance. You initiated hostilities here, chum, and you continued them when there was a perfectly good opening to let them go. You have only been moding here for weeks and already you are picking fights, replying snappily to a mildly dozy post.

Now.

I don't want to go through this again - either we let this go now or I take this to policy. I don't want to ruin some poor sod's Chaos Engine 2 thread.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
15:30 / 05.08.05
Also - cyberpunk, not steampunk. You keep using those terms interchangeably, which suggests you may be more interested in having a fight than in the topic.

Typo. Will mod. If I was wanting to talk cyberpunk I'd be posting piccies of Snatcher, Rez and Shadowrun.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
15:36 / 05.08.05
Thirdly or fourthly, where did you post this? I can't see it in the thread and it's very unfair to expect me to be looking at other threads before I can make a post in this one.

Hey, EL. Why not have a shufti at the topic discussing moderating the Games and Gameplay forum in the Policy? Only, we're a bit keen not to have pointless list threads. that's one reason why I asked why it is not more popular. I was hoping for a slightly better answer than "it is not very popular". However, since the thread has now been moderated by a third party to include Steampunk, I suggest you start a new thread on the Bitmap Brothers, whose contribution to gaming is indeed considerable, if you want to push that.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:43 / 05.08.05
I was excerpting my own as-yet-unposted ontopic post, thus neatly rendering it entirely ontopic. Could you go to Policy, now, please? This thread is currently no longer about The Chaos Engine or Steampunk, and I'd like that to change.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:59 / 05.08.05
So, let's start with:

All in all, Steampunk isn't that widespread in games. Now and again it might be trotted out as some kind of a level motif, but I can't think of many purebred steampunk games (none, in fact). You could say the whole topic's kind of vauge.

I think the first question there is how you define "pure" steampunk. Answer: you don't. The term was coined in the early 90s, I think to describe Bruce Sterling and William Gibson's the Difference Engine, on which The Chaos Engine was very obviously based. However, although this book then got to define the field, in this case a Victorian setting in which technology was at an advanced level or moving at an accelerated pace compared to our history. However, the same term has subsequently been applied to a grab-bag of approaches, some of which precede the creation of the term itself - the Victorian submarine in Disney's 20,000 leagues under the sea might be a very good example of steampunk aesthetics avant la lettre, as might the Victorian 1960s in Harry Harrison's A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah!.

Anyway, back to games. Why is steampunk not as widespread as, say, its big brother cyberpunk? Part of the answer to that is probably in the question - Cyberpunk is a larger and more successful genre, and so logically more games will be created targeting it. However, I don't think that's a complete answer at all. I'm more inclined to suggest something along these lines:

The steampunk aesthetic requires computers to do things that, at least until recently, computers have not been great at - cloth textures, shadows and flickering light sources, curlicues and high levels of detail (because technology will be handcrafted rather than mass-produced) and, frankly, brass. This is compuned by the fact that the setting does not generally have features that necessarily add value to the "bones" of the game structure - because the advances in technology will in many cases make it play like a modern day/near future setting _anyway_, the gameplay payoff from the setting may well not justify the added complications of the code, especially if by putting in these complications they may actually reduce the appeal, in sales terms, of the product.

Lots to tear apart and disagree with, there, but it's a posit. Now, if I may, let me take a look at a game which I think fits quite neatly into the genre "Steampunk", and which uses that not only as a setting but also as a key part of the gaming experience (albeit with one major structural difference to "steampunk classic" in the Difference Engine Mode): Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magic Obscura.

This is a Troika game, and like all Troika games shows remarkable attention to detail - which I think makes it a good fit - the manual, for example, is done in a heavily archaicised style which is occasionally wincemaking but kept carefully consistent. It also shows up on of the problems of the style - everything looks muddy and indistinct, because characters and settings eschew bright colours.

Where it differs from Steampunk classic is that its setting is best described as accelerated fantasy - that is, accelerated technological development and Edwardian setting is being appplied to a D&D-type fantasy world, with Elves, Dwarves, Halflings and so on - to steampunk what Shadowrun is to cyberpunk, essentially.

Magic makes technology less likely to work, technology makes magic less likely to work. As such, the player has to balance his or her approach to personal development, moving towards magic or science, which have their own skill trees, applications and so on, which has impacts on their ability to use the other, vulnerability to it and so on. It's also a very pure RPG, which I suspect lends itself better too steampunk as a genre of game because more discursive and based more on explanation and scene-setting, and tend more towards static, two-dimensional screens that can be decorated and detailed without slowing down the game. The social changes brought on by the development of technology are also both a part of the plot and a way of adding detail and richness to the world - so, firearms are modish but most of them are still not very good, but if you follow a weaponsmithing skill tree you can ultimately create technology which is as effective as high-level magic. Probably. I got about 20 hours in and was overwhelmed by the sheer size of the game, but the aesthetics, and the effort put in to create a consistent style, were highly impressive.

So, Arcanum got around the problems I mooted above - if problems they were - by putting the detail primarily in cutscenes, static backgrounds and "character sheet" still pages rather than the objects being used in the world, and by sheer mass of contextualising detail without the need for creating a convincing alternative history of our world - although the weaknesses of the writers (another problem for steampunk - people who work on computer games are likely to be more familiar and more comfortable with contemporary and futuristic milieux than a Victorian or Edwardian setting) at times inserted bum notes.

Can anyone think of a successful approach to steampunk in another genre of game (RTS seems like a promising one), or want to take me up on any of the above propositions? Also it occurs to me that we are limiting ourselves to video games here, which we don't _need_ to...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:47 / 05.08.05
This thread's going to be put up for locking as discussed here. The topic of steampunk games in general is moved to this new thread and there'll hopefully be one about The Chaos Engine and other Bitmap Bros. games, following on from sg and Stoatie's posts, appearing soon.
 
  
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