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The Stonehenge issue.

 
 
Olulabelle
23:50 / 26.07.05
Here on Barbelith and elsewhere I've mentioned the Stonehenge project I have been involved in but haven't been able to talk about it much until now because, as part of the team considering the application, it was politically unacceptable for me to express an opinion on it.

This is what Stonehenge looks like at the moment:



Tonight the application submitted by English Heritage to move the Visitor centre (the car park on the left and some buildings out of shot) away from the Stones and close the little road (the A344, also on the left) has been refused.

The Department of Culture was going to part fund some of this project in that they were going to help pay to put the A303 (on the right) in a bored tunnel. Tunnelling the A303 was not part of the application I was considering, but it was related in that it would have helped return the Stones to their natural setting.

Last week the Government announced it was reviewing this scheme and rumour and conjecture has it that the DoC pulled the funding for the tunnel because it needs the money for the Olympics. That left the Department of Transport having to pay for the entire tunnel, which they obviously refused to do, and so the Councillors of Salisbury District voted tonight to refuse it.

Whether or not you think the tunnel and the road scheme was too expensive, or unenvironmentally sound, the point is that because the Government put the roadscheme under review the Councillors felt unable to approve the removal of the little road and the relocation of the Visitor Centre. But I think that even if the A303 remained unchanged, this application would still would have gone part way to restoring Stonehenge. Look at that picture and imagine Stonehenge without the A344 cutting the Henge off, and imagine the car park gone.

Anyway, I feel miserable that all our work has been basically pointless, and I wanted to start a thread about it. It wasn't the most perfect scheme; there were many faults, a major one being that the route of a land train which would have taken people from the new Visitor Centre to the Stones travelled very closely to people's houses in order to avoid damage to another archaeological feature called the Cursus. Nobody really knows what the Cursus is, but it's a very important feature of the Stonehenge landscape, best viewed from above:



The Cursus is the long oval shape in the ground stretching from top left to bottom right in the picture.

But the application to move the Visitor centre and the road was better than the current situation; Stonehenge and its related archaeological features is a World Heritage Site. The current Visitor Centre is a disaster and fairly shameful for a WHS by anyone's standards.

Now the whole application is null and void and cannot be resubmitted unless it fundamentally changes. Maybe that will happen, and maybe one day English Heritage will find a better solution to the one refused, but it won't happen for many years. You see, it took the various bodies 15 years to get this far. Now it's back to square one.

It's nice to finally be able to discuss it though and I'd like to know what you think. I can answer any questions and I can confidently say I can take any criticism you may wish to make since part of my job for the last nine months has been to do exactly that!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:53 / 26.07.05
The because it needs the money for the Olympics part sounds about right to my cynical mind, Lula. (But then I'm prepared to blame anything on the Olympics about now).

Not being an expert on this kind of thing, it's hard for me to comment on environmental soundness, but I've long thought that fucking road shouldn't be there. So this is a shame.
 
 
Bed Head
00:12 / 27.07.05
Oooh, I meant to tell you! I saw Stonehenge with my own eyes for the first time *ever* the other week. We drove past in a van, and I made such a song and dance about it, they stopped the van on the way back and I got out and goggled properly. In the open air.

So, yeah. God, the stones. Really.

But, then, I was astonished at how close the road was, and at the visitor centre and how many coach parties there were traipsing around on a weekday, and can’t believe this stuff can be so hard to move. An Air Force base could move an undesirable road with no problem whatsoever. So I totally second that 'this is a shame' sentiment.
 
 
Smoothly
00:16 / 27.07.05
Lula, sorry to hear that so much mork seems to have been for nought. That's a fucker.
But since you ask, can you explain a little more about the reasons for moving the A303? This might sound dreadful, but the only times I have ever seen Stonehenge have been on glorious drives down that road (my favourite A-road. You know, some people don't even have a favourite A-road!). So, if it wasn't for the proximity of that to the stones, I for one would never have seen them.

Also, what does returning the Stones to their natural setting mean? What is their natural setting? Haven't they been moved about a fair bit in the last 4,000 years? Do we even know what their natural setting was?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
00:20 / 27.07.05
They do look like something explicitly sexual, the photos I mean, almost as if they were images of cowboys eating pudding.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
00:28 / 27.07.05
Is there someone specific we can write and complain to in the hope that, with enough pressure, it won't take another 15 years?
 
 
alas
01:00 / 27.07.05
Oh, Alas! I take my name in vain, for you!

The road is way too close, its status as a favorite A-route of certain 'lithers notwithstanding...

I've somehow managed to wind up at Stonehenge twice. It's moving, but Avebury, I find, is a more intimate, more interesting setting. But, you're definitely right that the site center is, well, pathetic. Cartoonish and very lacking in detailed information.

How your plans have improved the information in the visitors center?
 
 
_Boboss
07:42 / 27.07.05
lulabelle, what's the historical provenance of the london - westcountry road (am assuming maybe that came under some of the research you had to do for the project)? I thought the stones were there, kinda, because of the road, an obvious marker roughly halfway between here and there, placed within sight of merry merchants, pilgrims and the like. what would the roads have been like back before the a303 was there?
 
 
■
07:48 / 27.07.05
The A303 is indeed a lovely road to drive, but it is also the best alternative to the M4/M5 combination to get from the London area to the South-West. It's an extremely busy road and a tunnel would have been a much better idea (they might finally get rid of Thatcher's anti-hippy gates while they're at it). The pollution from the 303 must be degrading the stones to some extent, so I for one am a little pissed off. Mind you, Avebury is much better than Stonehenge. It has added Copeilium fruit oils to enhance your natural drude bounce.
 
 
_Boboss
08:01 / 27.07.05
not that lovely, fucken nightmarish bottlenecks coming out of yeovil usually, spesh in the summer. gets better later of course.
 
 
Lord Morgue
09:07 / 27.07.05
Must- not- post- Spinal- Tap- lyrics...


(sob)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:44 / 27.07.05
Ah, the A303. I remember a lovely day driving back from Yeovil when me and Biscy stopped off for a Stonehenge picnic and it was ace... but I also remember a particularly bad hitch TO Yeovil when I slept in a hedge thereon...

...sorry. Back to Stonehenge stuff.
 
 
Bill Posters
10:00 / 27.07.05
really rushed, will try to get back to this in more detail but for now, sorry to hear that, 'Belle. I know how ten month's work down the drain feels, and it's not nice, not at all.
 
 
Brunner
10:13 / 27.07.05
It's funny isn't it? We can waste £600m+ on an ugly and universally hated giant tent in Greenwich, which will be gone in 100 years (let alone 2,000) while one of the greatest symbols of British/European prehistory (which generates more money and tourist interest than that bloody dome thing) is left to suffer because of safety issues concerning a road! This is a real missed opportunity to improve a landscape that for me, crackles with mystique and traces of pagan magic. Too many high publicity planning decisions in this country are too do with roads I feel....
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:19 / 27.07.05
How long has that little visitor centre been there? Because the last time I would have visited Stonehenge would probably have been ten years ago and I was amazed by how crap the services were then...
 
 
Quantum
10:20 / 27.07.05
GODDAMMIT! I was taking it for granted the bore tunnel had the go-ahead as that was the last I heard of it, grr aargh!

Lula, sympathy to you & your dept. having worked for a County Council I can feel your pain, but does Nina have a point? There's plenty of public support to move the road and the centre, can we lobby someone?


I thought the stones were there, kinda, because of the road, an obvious marker roughly halfway between here and there, placed within sight of merry merchants, pilgrims and the like. Gumbitch
Hahahaha. I thought it was part of a ritual landscape thousands of years old predating literacy, used to keep track of sacred festivals.
 
 
_Boboss
11:04 / 27.07.05
hah, clever. yeah. you've just described the functon though, not the reason for the location. (ultimately i guess 'it's flat' is the best).

i suppose it's very possible the priest-caste overseeing construction could have chosen a spot far from any common paths to keep it special and away from t'proles except come winter solstice, but similarly i can imagine the merchants and landowners bankrolling the enterprise might have wanted it placed near a commonly-used path or track so they could see and visit as they went to and fro.

my point: i'm glad the a303 runs past it, people should be able to see it as they drive across the country. if there had always been a tunnel there i'd have only seen the stones a couple of times in my life, as it is i've seen them dozens and they feel, um, part of the landscape. putting a wall over the road just seems a bit proprietorial or something.
 
 
_Boboss
11:06 / 27.07.05
just done a re-read, is it the damage caused by the road pollution which was the reason for the propsed tunnel? how much damage is that?
 
 
Quantum
11:16 / 27.07.05
the merchants and landowners bankrolling the enterprise
I think the establishment of those institutions as powerful is much more recent- Stonehenge is 4-6000 years old, so dates either from the time of the very first farming communities or perhaps the Bronze age. For comparison, Druidism is about 2500 years old, I suspect there was no path there back then. The whole of Salisbury plain is a ritual environment, the Henge is just a conspicuous focal point.

I have also enjoyed the stones from a moving car, but conversely while actually visiting them the nearby road does detract from the sacred atmosphere somewhat. I say move the visitor centre and the road further away, and make it easier to stop and visit (they even charge to see the stones I think).

I wish nobody had mentioned the Dome, I'm now filled with rage and bile and will be all day.
 
 
Brunner
11:29 / 27.07.05
Sincerest apologies Quantum.
 
 
Quantum
11:44 / 27.07.05
Accepted on condition we agree to burn the dome and bring down Blair.

Hey I found some interesting things like this timeline of efforts to change the site which has this from 1997-
it stands in what is little more than a traffic island. Two main roads converge on the monument, severing it from the awesome landscape it once dominated. The busy A303 trunk road passes within 200 yards of the Stones. The A344 virtually touches the Heel Stone. Five years ago, the Public Accounts Committee of the House of Commons described the presentation of the site as `a national disgrace'.

A dual carriageway A303 was narrowly avoided, I'm glad.

*must...not...post...Levellers lyrics...*
 
 
_Boboss
12:03 / 27.07.05
*everybody join in now*
'there's only wuhun, weeeaay of life, and that's your own, your own it's your own'

(i saw hat-fuck from the levellers the other day, he walked straight past the homeless lady begging outside alldays. typical.)

that timelime's good, is there a good more general hengey site where they go right back to year dot? i'm trying to remember what the last 'ultimate theory' i heard on the henge was, i think it was on radio 4 a couple of years ago: something about the options for social focus and order afforded by the monument in a world that was beginning to move out of the forests and stop following the seasonal animal migrations. early settling-folk basically, living slightly less sexy (copyrite barefoot doctor) lives now that they're not hunting anymore, required a big visual symbol of the gods to keep them happy in their new agri-businesses. the way things go, that theory's probably way out of date now.... doesn't really account who/why avebury was made either thinking about it, unless it was for nomadic types.

by 'landowners' earlier i really only meant 'nearest bloke with a gang of mates and swords' which is what counts when land ownership is an issue, but i guess the radio 4 theory could suggest that such tribal and military institutions as you (Q) say might not even have been entrenched at the time. so who were the organisers then? hmmm... and who the fuck made avebury?

and now i'm thinking about it again, and interested again, slike being a kid again. so, favourite stonehenge websites w. origin theories please?
 
 
Quantum
15:07 / 27.07.05
Here's one.
 
 
Quantum
15:11 / 27.07.05
Check this tidbit out from the BBC Timeline of Wales-

Sometime after c.2000, a circle of about 80 blue stones each of them weighing about four tons and between two and three metres in height, were erected within the circle. Some of them at least were quarried from the rock of the Presely Mountains and there has been much speculation about the way they were transported to the Wiltshire Downs. Among the earliest references to Stonehenge comes in the work of Geoffrey of Monmouth (c.1135); he stated that the stones were magically transported from Ireland by the prophet, Merlin - a comment which may enshrine a folk memory of the transport of the blue stones. The reason for bringing the stones from so distant a location can perhaps be attributed to the fact that the Presely Mountains were the most prominent landmark for those sailing from Ireland to the Severn Sea, and that, as a result, the mountains gained a reputation for sanctity.

Cool!
 
 
Olulabelle
18:54 / 27.07.05
You can find heaps of stuff about the Merlin legend and Stonehenge if you look. It is cool isn't it!

There is much debate over where the original road was, but about quarter of a mile left of Stonehenge just past the Avenue is an old road which was thought to be the main arterial road from London to the West. There are records of it from 1500, so it's likely that it followed the path of the original Neolithic travelling route.

Smoothly, there isn't a Highways Agency plan to move the A303, although there have been several suggestions of what to do about it submitted to the inquiry on the road by various pressure groups and members of the public, including one called 'The Parker Plan.' In an inquiry anyone can submit an idea and the inspector has to consider it by law, but in the Inspector's report he dismissed it for various reasons. The Highways agency plan has always been to dual the A303 down to the West Country and since the section past Stonehenge is single carriageway, putting it in a tunnel was the solution offered for Stonehenge. It would be a travesty to dual the A303 at grade level past Stonehenge, and the cheaper 'cut and cover' version of a tunnel would have been very damaging to the archaeology in the WHS.

The road pollution has damaged the stones, and tunnelling would only have helped with that.

The Stones have never been moved, other than to be returned to standing by Aubrey Bailey in the 1950's.

Flowers, the little Visitor centre has been there for many years so it's the same as the one you would have visited. The new one would have had a whole lot of information in it including films and explanations about the World Heritage Site as a whole rather than just the Stones themselves. It was also planned to include exhibits like the Amesbury Archer, one of the most significant archaeological Bronze Age finds in recent history.

I don't think pressure groups like The Stonehenge Alliance realise sometimes what damage protesting a middle-way option can do. We were lucky to have managed to get the Highways Agency even to agree to a short deep-bore tunnel. But The Stonehenge Alliance fought against this and it's partly because of them the roadscheme went to inquiry.

The National Trust also fought against the tunnel, because they wanted it to be longer (4.5km tunnelling all the way under the WHS instead of 2.1km past the Stones). If it hadn't gone to inquiry it's likely the process of building it would have already started before the Olympic bid win, and the Government wouldn't have been able to pull the funding.

All these people are now up in arms, giving out statements about being disappointed and worrying that a cheaper scheme will be implemented. But now there won't be any tunnel at all, and the very best that will happen is that they do nothing, leaving the single carriageway there. This will be nice for people driving past Stonehenge, but will continue the damage to the Stones and won't do anything to help the WHS as a whole. It's not going to ease the traffic issue either.

There is a Guardian article about the tunnel here.

The worst that can now happen is that the Government builds an at grade dual carriageway right across the WHS. Which is exactly what everyone was trying to avoid.
 
 
Olulabelle
19:14 / 27.07.05
Oh yes, people to write to. Well, you can try writing to the Culture Minister, David Lammy, and I would also write to Steve Ladyman, since it is he that has called the scheme into review. I don't know his email address, because on his website contact page he lists the one shown as only for people in his constituency.

it's difficult to know who is now responsible for getting something done. The Council can't undo their refusal. English Heritage can't resubmit the application (although today they are talking about doing so) without serious changes to it. Since one of the issues is the lack of roadscheme not under their control, they can't change it in their resubmission, and because the Councillors refused the Visitor Centre even if the Government do sort out the tunnel there isn't now a plan for the Visitor Centre.

Maybe the best person to write to is your own MP and ask them to put forward a question. Or ask who is the best person to write to!
 
 
Alex's Grandma
20:52 / 27.07.05
'Dear Steve,

Well school can't have been easy, that's for sure!

On a more serious note, the no doubt nightmarish struggle for acceptance that you went through as a younger man (the desperate hours playing 'keepy-uppy' or just banging your fists against the garage wall - I can picture them all Steve, all those lost, lonely years,) is in many ways reflected in the daily trials of being involved in anything environmental-wise.

But now you've arrived, you're in charge now damnit! And I bet it feels good! All that stuff about... the nickname, and so on, must seem very distant, now.

Please take this opportunity to just, y'know, look at your desk. It's impressive, isn't it? It's a very good desk. It's a much better desk than the ones that some of the people you went to school with have got now, I'm guessing (I bet some of those guys are even working on the roads these days.)

But you should do whatever seems appropriate. Follow your heart and you won't go wrong!

All the best, etc'
 
  
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