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Results of the Moderation cleaning thread 2005

 
  

Page: 12(3)4

 
 
grant
14:57 / 26.07.05
Won't that get you in trouble with the postal inspectors?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:06 / 26.07.05
I am the postal inspector.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:24 / 26.07.05
I've moved for my contributions to be deleted as borderline offtopic. It might be worth having another thread for people to volunteer as mods, and work out some mechanism or steering group for discussion...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:33 / 26.07.05
I've disagreed that move. The subject has come up, as long as no one else posts about it here we may as well not lose the posts.
 
 
sleazenation
18:00 / 26.07.05
As I believe I have posted elsewhere, I am more than ready willing and able to help mod the switchboard - spend rather a lot of time reading it these days.
 
 
Char Aina
18:38 / 26.07.05
And then you said that you didn't care. As it happens, I'm pretty sure you didn't get it - you instead decided that Deva was seeking some underhand advantage by unfairly mentioning Paranoidwriter's "hyperbolic" comparison, which it oddly wasn't unfair for PW to make,

i'm not sure i said that.
i cetainly didnt mean that.
it was hyperbolic, which has all the connotations of unfair and unreasonable built in, doesnt it?
i certainly never backed hir statements as fair and equable.


You're saying "I understood it first time round, and I didn't think it was worth the effort I ultimately put into clarifying what I understood to start with".

no i wasnt.
i was saying i understood what she was getting at, but was unsure why.
i was then seperately saying that i wasnt ever as invested in finding out why as would seem to be required to argue with you about it.
i feel that was fairly clear.
if it wasnt, you could have asked me.

As such, if you're pitching to be a moderator based on the idea that you're going to misunderstand things, decide that you were right about the interpretation that makes the best sense to your idea of who is cheating and then declare that you aren't bothered either way... well, I'm not loving that.

if i am?
you'll be glad then to know that i am not.
neither am i pitching to be a moderator based upon that one time i got really drunk and hit a guy who was trying to steal my jacket at a club. nor am i pitching to be a moderator based upon that time i didnt call that girl for two weeks after she made me feel shit in front of her friends. nor am i pitching to be a moderator based upon my love of slayer and fervent disregard for the idea that there might be a better metal band.
these things are not relevant to my doing janitorial work in the switchboard, and if you see my posts there, you will see that i approach things a litle differently in there to the way you paint me.
please, find examples of me asking to be a moderator based upon a manifesto of misunderstanding and slow uptake.
or perhaps you could find me examples of me behaving badly in switchboard recently.
also, perhaps you could detail how exactly i am saying i wish to be a moderator based on a lack of "care either way".
i was under the impression the conversation was a less stringent discussion spot from which one could bow out if one found it to be either taxing or unnecessary.
you and i were adding threadrot, and it was not so important to me to put in work that would ultimately be against the intent of the thread.
i thought it was clear, it seems it was not.
for my part in that opacity i apologise.


now where in all that was there a need to add your comment after my post in this thread?
could you not have PMed me?
could you not have asked me to reflect offthread, rather than risk the derailment of yet another thread?
 
 
Char Aina
18:41 / 26.07.05
i apologise if this is exactly what you were talking about, ms c. i missed your post while posting mine, and have found it hard to ignore what haus has said.

please dont think i was ignoring you.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
19:17 / 26.07.05
Okay, we won't delete this but seriously no more off topic to this thread or I'm putting the whole lot up.
 
 
Lurid Archive
22:20 / 26.07.05
If we need more mods for the Switchboard I think that both sleazenation and toksik would be excellent choices, myself.

But have we come to a decision yet about how many moderators we actually want per forum? I tend to spend a few minutes dealing with requests every time I log on and more mods would lighten the load....but then it isn't particularly heavy anyway. It can be a bit slow, I suppose.
 
 
Mazarine
14:37 / 27.07.05
This may be a silly idea, but maybe we should establish some sort of moderator shifts, possibly based on time zone, or just general time people find themselves able to use the internet? That might solve some of the issues of wait time for request approvals.
 
 
Cat Chant
15:29 / 27.07.05
(I'm really sorry, Nina, but I feel like I should have a right to reply to the offtopica, otherwise it looks like I'm agreeing with what Haus says about me, which is why I'm not just PM-ing this to toksik - if it ends up getting deleted, can you send me a copy so I can PM it instead?) I just want to say briefly that I did not at any point feel that you were impugning my integrity, toksik, nor did I have a problem with the "don't care" comment, which I took to mean not that you thought the discussion was worthless, but that your original interest had been fairly idle, rather than red-hot righteous rage - which was also the case with me, which (plus the fact that the three-way-ness of the conversation was confusing matters already) was why I didn't respond to you directly in that thread.

Okay. Ontopic. I'd be very reluctant to see non-active moderators removed - I was barely here for a year or so while writing up my dissertation because of teh crazy, but to a large extent it was being a moderator, and feeling responsible/guilty about neglecting the place, that brought me back (because my engagement with Barbelith has been long-term enough for a year's semi-absence to seem like a blip), so I think other mods should have the same opportunity.

Other people might have different experiences, of course, but for me, I like to think that I contribute something worthwhile to the board, and it feels a bit big-headed to think that, you know, I owe it to the little people to come and share my wisdom with me - but when I have that "moderator" badge, I have a way of thinking about my usefulness to the community in practical terms. Like, it matters if I start threads, try to keep them ontopic, contribute in areas where I actually know something - it matters because it's my job, not just because I'm so great. So, for me, the more moderators the better.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:55 / 27.07.05
Out of interest, how often were you online?

8 days ago I sent the hoards a pm and asked them to reply by this Friday. These are the people who haven't replied and have two days left to do so. The person I'd be disinclined to knock off is Rizla who is the only one I've seen post in a forum he moderates recently:

Conversation Lionheart

Laboratory Lionheart, tSuibhne

Temple Lionheart, Trijhaos, asdfghjkl

Art, Fashion and Design David "Papi" Ortiz, Lilith Myth, Linus Dunce

Books and Literature Trijhaos

Comic Books Matthew Fluxington

Film, TV and Theatre Matthew Fluxington

Radio and Music David "Papi" Ortiz, Matthew Fluxington, Harald Fairhair
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:00 / 27.07.05
So let's get down to serious business, it's a little premature but hell, if you want to replace a moderator in any of the fora listed above say it now. If you think a forum you moderate needs more moderators and at a specific time of day say it now. In total moderators have now had just under 2 weeks to reply.
 
 
Quantum
17:28 / 27.07.05
I want to replace Lionheart or tSuibhne in the Temple *waves hand in the air*
 
 
w1rebaby
18:45 / 27.07.05
I'll replace anyone in the Convo or Lab.

Actually I'll replace anyone anywhere, I don't mind, but those would be my first choices.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:09 / 27.07.05
Quite honestly, I'm amazed that Lionheart is still a moderator. He pops in, what, once every eighteen months?
 
 
Jack Vincennes
20:22 / 27.07.05
I'd be happy to replace Trijhaos in Books, if I'm needed.
 
 
Olulabelle
21:42 / 27.07.05
I'd like to replace Lionheart in Conversation and Trijhaos or asdfghjkl in the Temple if that's acceptable. I'd also like to swap with Sally - my Books for her FV&T. She's up for this too.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:51 / 27.07.05
Oh I'm a nit, Rizla so pm'd me to tell me he was still moderating. My mentioning of him must have been my subconscious kicking me in the head.
 
 
rising and revolving
00:13 / 28.07.05
I'd be more 'n happy to step in to either Temple (where I post a lot, keep my nose clean, and know enough to know what I don't know) and/or Comics (where I post very little, and that mostly to suck peoples brains, know more than I ought, and love the ongoing dialog).

All that said, I think if the "Barbelith experiment" is the object of the continued existence of the Barb (and I realise that's not a given) I think you should just add a whole whack of mods - get new ones in by the tonnne and continue the devolution of power in an incremental fashion.

But that's just me.
 
 
Mazarine
01:07 / 28.07.05
Yup, confirming my up-ness for swapping with Lula.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:51 / 28.07.05
Actually I wouldn't mind moderating conversation either. I do spend an inordinate amount of time there and I'm usually online quite late at night. Like now.
 
 
Bed Head
03:55 / 28.07.05
So, what, we have to find someone to swap with? I’d be delighted to help mod more forums, especially the ones I spend most time in, whether I’m in posting mode or not, but then, I don’t mind too much if I just get left where I am, either. Stuck on the tail of the site. I think it’d be a shame if this exercise just results in the existing moderators stretching themselves out a bit more.
 
 
Olulabelle
08:59 / 28.07.05
My swapping with Sally is only because we discovered we both wanted to mod the others forum. Plus also some of us feel we are not stretched - I could and would certainly like to do more.

Is there somewhere in particular you would like to mod, Bed?
 
 
Loomis
09:17 / 28.07.05
I'm happy to join the illustrious ranks of mods if you need any more volunteers.

Happy to go wherever is needed. I read daily pretty much every forum except Comic Books and Temple. In regards to subjects that would actually be relevant to my interests: convo, books, games (if you want a sport mod - I don't know a thing about computer games). I also lurk in AFD a bit, so if you lose three mods (as per Nina's list above) then I'd be happy to help out there.
 
 
Cat Chant
09:42 / 28.07.05
8 days ago I sent the hoards a pm and asked them to reply by this Friday.

Certainly in my year of crazy it wouldn't have been unusual for me to take 10 days to reply to a PM (as dizfactor, Goodness Gracious Meme and others can attest, I should think). Also, you know, it's July. People are on holiday. Or sometimes just going outside (away from the computer) more. I mean, if people are really, really gone I can see the point of clearing the decks a bit, but on the whole I don't see what harm it does to have a few not-here-at-the-moment mods, as long as there are also enough active mods to keep things ticking over... there's not a maximum number of mods per forum, is there?
 
 
Spaniel
09:55 / 28.07.05
I'll do comics, I might not post there much at the moment, but I read all the threads, and historically I have posted alot. I'm familiar with all the regular posters and I know the subject.
 
 
Smoothly
10:24 / 28.07.05
Where I am, the mod burden is very low – all this talk of daunting queues of mod actions… I leap on jobs the moment they appear. So I’d be very happy to take on a share from another forum – preferably F,TV&T or Conversation – if needed. But I’d as soon give way to a first timer with a burning desire for the cap. If there’s a feeling that new recruits should start on the nursery slopes, I’d be happy to pass on my position in the Gathering.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
10:58 / 28.07.05
I would only say that in my opinion the Conversation is pretty well moderated at the moment as is, other peoples mileage may vary but my perception is that requests for changes tend to get done fairly quickly, although logging in of a mornining I sometimes see requests that have been waiting for one to two hours. I would suggest the love needs to be shared around in the other fora instead.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:29 / 28.07.05
Well usually I'd agree Deva but I know that Flux and Papi are online almost every day, they're just not coming to barbelith. The others I haven't seen post on the board for about a year.
 
 
Spaniel
14:44 / 28.07.05
Didn't Flux pretty much wave bye-bye? I know his interest was waning for a long time.
 
 
Cat Chant
16:16 / 28.07.05
I know that Flux and Papi are online almost every day, they're just not coming to barbelith. The others I haven't seen post on the board for about a year.

Oh, well, fair enough: just wanted to check that no-one was being demodded prematurely/ after 10 days of non-response. Should have known that wasn't your intention.
 
 
gridley
16:56 / 28.07.05
Just mentioning again that I could easily add Film/TV and Music to my mod duties, which may help ease the burden left by Flux.
 
 
Bed Head
20:10 / 28.07.05
My swapping with Sally is only because we discovered we both wanted to mod the others forum. Plus also some of us feel we are not stretched - I could and would certainly like to do more.

I didn’t mean stretched as in struggling to cope, lula, I meant stretched as in the existing mods stretching out in the sun and extending their Amazing And All-Powerful Moderating Authority, which might help to reinforce the impression that moderation on barbelith is run by a core of relatively few people. Is this exercise to do with finding only trustworthy, barbe-active individuals who can vote on mod actions anywhere/lots of places on barbelith, or to do with determining which posters have a definite commitment to doing heavy lifting in particular fora?

I’m still wondering what this ‘I’d like x, y, and z too’ stuff is all about, I guess. Despite Tom’s most recent post to this thread, that doesn’t seem to have been settled, possibly because he says he’s all for people moderating more fora, and “really the fewer the better”. Without the recruitment drive for lots of new mods, I’m not sure that last night’s collecting of extra fora is really improving the situation, and I feel maybe the recruitment drive is the important bit if the inactive mods are now actually going to be counted as ‘inactive’. Even if they’re not being struck off, we seem to be working from the assumption that their absence frees up a certain, limited number of jobs. What was happening last night wasn’t the revolutionary change to moderation that was being proposed on page 1 of this thread (and supported at the time by you, Olula), with voting powers being extended across the board and the voting being spread over a larger sample: Tom’s come out against that idea, so fair enough. But, if anything, it now looks like the moderating powers/responsibilities are on the verge of being concentrated with fewer people than before.

Before *anything* else, I’d rather see any mod vacancies that need filling going to those with *fewer* existing responsibilities, and to new people, rather than to the ones who already mod several fora. I get this whole ‘learning curve’ thing, but if all inactive mods are now replaced by entirely new mods, all forums will still have long-standing mods outnumbering the new and relatively untried mods by six or seven to one, or therabouts.

So, I was feeling kinda weird about some of the posts last night, if the taking on of several extra modding responsibilities is going to prevent several new mods from being introduced. It’s all back-to-front. New mods as a priority, then with the one-for-one swapping around, then remaining gaps can be filled by existing people who want to do more. Surely?
 
 
Tom Coates
14:33 / 29.07.05
Hey guys. Okay - I'm taking a stab at doing my part of this. I've done some work behind the scenes and determined that there are around nine moderators who do not appear to have propsed any actions at all or voted on any actions over the last month. I'm going to send those moderators an e-mail saying thanks for their time moderating on the board and that - should they return more regularly that they should definitely give me a yell about being reinstated. I'm also going to say that if I've made any mistakes along the way and accidentally made people not moderators who are still involved and want to be involved in moderating the site that they should ping me right back and I'll reinstate them. I can't be totally sure that I've got it completely right, although I'm as certain as I can be at the moment.

Hopefully that will give us a sense of where the big gaps are in the whole deal and where we're lacking moderatorial support.

I love the fact that you guys are debating and volunteering for stuff and organising this stuff without me intruding, and I want to support it as much as I can - it's a bit tricky to work out how to though.

The most obvious thing I can think of is for the current moderators to reorganise themselves a bit first, and then do a recruitment call. So maybe if I say that we should be aiming for moderators to only look after fora they go to fairly regularly and that they shouldn't be looking after more than five or six fora - would that be a good start? My preferred way of organising it would be for those existing moderators only to do posts that say (basically) their user number, the number of the fora that they no longer wish to moderate and then the number of the fora that they really would like to moderate instead (something like):

User: 1
Stop moderating: 1,2,5,6
Start moderating: 3,4,6,3

All this - of course - after you've had your discussions here and come to some conclusions.

Once we've removed the moderators who have left the board, and allowed the current moderators to get themselves more comfortable around the place, then it would seem the right time to get new people moderating to up the numbers in each of the fora. I think my preferred number of mods per fora is around ten to twelve. I'd rather that new moderators only moderated one or two fora so that they can get used to the job and stuff, and I'd quite like to give existing moderators a veto, but I don't know what people think about that. In the meantime, does the earlier bit of the process sound manageable?
 
  

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