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Transfer markets of the beautiful game

 
 
Benny the Ball
15:12 / 19.07.05
So there has been a little movement on the markets. As usual everyone is waiting to see at the top end of the table, and the bottom end of the footballing world scramble about to get something, anything of worth. My own beloved Forest have even managed to make 4 signings so far, although all pushing 30+, some smart signings of players from bottom end of the top teams at the end of their carers, looking for one last push maybe - we shall see if the blend of playing the game, pulling their weight and the dull consta-tinkering of Megson does anything in the 3rd division.

As for in the real world of real money and Real teams - well, Viera's move was a semi-shock, in that every season he mentions that he may move, but for him to move to a league with major money problems, for a smallish figure when he is hitting his prime says more of his mental state I think - or has he just gone as far as he can with Arsene's Arsenal?

As for Wright Phillips (Or Sean Wee Phillips as the Sky Blue Mancs called him) and his move, well. £21 or £23 or whatever million for a teenager that hasn't done a great deal, didn't prove himself a great international and has faired his trade at an over ambitious but under-delivering side is a bit much. Are Chelsea paying inflated prices, or are they inflating the prices? Well, I'd say they're stupid to pay it, but they have it, but I'd accuse Newcastle as the culprites in the inflatting prices stakes - they've been at it for years, and them talking about Jenas for £20m is a joke. Yes these players are young. and you pay for a certain amount for future delivery in these matters, but come on - £13m for a world and European cup, league winning captain in his prime vs £20m+ for unproven youngsters that both play for near relegation and unsteady but well supported teams?

Over to you to discuss whatever you want in the world of football transfers
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
16:36 / 19.07.05
Friend and I were perusing the Premiership transfers list t'other day.

Good deals:

B'ham city getting Jermaine Pennant from Arsenal for intial outlay of £500k.

Villa getting Kevin Phillips from Soton for £1m. This sounds ludicrously cheap to me, he's a fine player.

My favourite club in transfer terms has to be Blackburn.


They've not only just paid £5million for Craig Bellamy, of whom Mark Hughes says: In Craig [Bellamy] we have a player who is one of the best of his type in Europe. I'm not bothered about his reputation..

Mark, I wish you luck, you're going to need it.

but also had their offer for John Carew refused by an agent quoted as saying:

'If he leaves Besiktas, it will be for a big club, one playing in Europe.'

Ouch!
 
 
Brunner
11:59 / 21.07.05
I'm an armchar Arsenal fan.

So far we have only signed Hleb from Stuttgart who looks like a good buy. According to The Sun (no I don't read it, saw it quoted elsewhere) we are going to sign Julio Baptista from Seville TODAY for £12.5m - even though the player himself says he is staying in Spain.

I was stunned that we sold Vieira (who was my favourite player) but it seemed he wanted to go this time, we got a decent fee and he is getting on a bit. We got 9 great years from him.

Off topic (sorry) re Chelsea, anyone else feel that the team is possibly being funded by money that in a roundabout way really belongs to the citizens of Russia? Abramovich bought Sibneft cheap in a firesale of public assets and now its worth so much more. I guess we'll never know the real truth. I'm glad I'm not a Chelsea fan....but (back on topic) yes I think Chelsea do inflate transfer values BUT only for players they may realistically be interested in. They have certainly paid over the odds for several players and now, once their interest in a new player is known, the price goes up, forcing other clubs to look elsewhere. Look at Essien at Lyon - I believe Arsenal were once interested in him for around £12m....now that Chelsea want him the price is £33m....

Newcastle - I read a piece in the Guardian a few weeks ago that suggested Newcastle realise they'll never win any major trophies so just content themselves with recruiting trophy players as a consolation, hence the reason they pay over the odds. They are a difficult team to like if you're not a Geordie!
 
 
astrojax69
22:05 / 21.07.05
the other side of the transfer news is the managers - guus hiddink to manage the australian tilt at world cup qualification...!

i don't expect us to make the quarter finals in germany, but hey? funny game, fusbol!

apparently he is continuing his position at psv, but if [err, when, aussie gus, when!] we make it to germany he'll take us on full time. things are looking up.


only news i like to hear on the transfer market is that palace don't sell andrew johnson. when does the window slam shut?
 
 
Benny the Ball
06:03 / 22.07.05
End of August for the Premiership I think, but lower division clubs are allowed to keep going amongst themselves.

Gus Hiddink is a fantastic manager, someone who is tactically smart and very calm, very measured. Haven't seen too much of the Australian national team for a while, what kind of state are they in? England only seemed interested in them when El Tel was running things, and most of that batch of young good players have now become young lazy players.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:44 / 22.07.05
They are a difficult team to like if you're not a Geordie!

It's odd, isn't it? I remember being absolutely thrilled by tehe Keegan/Beardsley Newcastle, seeign tham as the plucky resistance to the Man U machine (despite the vast sums of cash being lavished on them as well), and wanting them to demonstrate, I suspect, that Beardsley was its own reward. I have a bit of a football crush on Peter Beardsley. Possibly the rot set in a bit when Dalglish took over, and then when Ruud Gullit, a man I want very much to like and respect, failed so badly (and in such a disappointing way) to revive their fortunes. Fondness for Bobby Robson went a long way to redeeming that dislike, but at present it seems like there's just no _oncentive_ to like Newcastle; Souness seems unsure of what to do with the staff at his disposal, in terms of man-management but also tactically... I think one of the annoying things about big-spending clubs is that they often seem to be using big money unwisely, which irks the smaller club follower...

Speaking of which, who were your transfers in, Bennny? And who has been transferred out? I suppose your only real assets in the transfer market are Michael Dawson and the rather tarnished coin of David Johnson, in terms of meeeelions of dolllllars...

Over at Tranmere, Ryan Taylor has gone, continuing our run of selling exciting young talent - Tony Thomas, Ian Moore, Jason Koumas, Alan Mahon, Danny Coyne, Steve Simonson, Sean Thornton - who, statistically, will then go on to achieve absolutely dick-all at a higher level, Koumas being the exception to that rule and now coming into form anyway. This is something of a blow.

Unfortunately, Brian Little has apparently bought to reppalce the wrong departure - Ian Hume's £500,000 move (Iam Hume being the latest of any number of small, nippy and talented inside-forwards that Tranmere Rovers, for some reason and regardless of management or team approach, seems to generate spontaneously) has apparently fallen through, which means that the purchase of Chris Greenacre leaves the squad comically overstuffed with forward players of approximately equal thread - Dadi, Zola, Hume and young local hero Chris Dagnall now being supplemented. I have a lot of time for Chris Greenacre, whom I think successive managers have underrated and misused, but I don't know if we can replace Simon Haworth with him, or if we actually need to.

It's a different world from Essien and Viera, ain't it? What's somewhat interesting is that the big club's shortlists seem to be shrinking - the truly big clubs largely want the same twenty or so people, and are prepared to have nobody rather than their intended. Is this related to inflated prices? Clubs who previously expected to sell a couple of players for good prices are now seeking to fill the gap on their balance sheets with a single jackpot sale to Chelsea or to lesser extent Real Madrid, so have to talk up prices until those possibilities are entirely dead...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:48 / 22.07.05
(P.S. I'm not a moderator in this forum, but at the moment the mods are largely computer-oriented, so can we self-police and keep this largely focused on discussion of transfers and the transfer market? Managerial moves are, I think, tangentially relevant, but I'd be happy to explain why I don't believe they are to be considered as "transfers" in this thread. Likewise discussions of the quality of natiional football teams, who do not have transfers as such)
 
 
nedrichards is confused
11:28 / 22.07.05
Haus, can we swap players? With the unfortunatly forced sale of everybodys favourite Icelander, Heider Helguson, until last week Watford were left with precisely one striker for the new season. The entrancing Hameur Bouazza. As it is the astute capture of Junior (always get a Brazillian with one name) on a free and snaffling Marlon King on loan from Forrest at least postpones having to play Paul Devlin up front until post christmas at least.

We're going to go down this year, I can sense it. There's a cycle in the club that sends us down to Division 1 (as it now is) every 7-10 years or so. On the plus side that means we'll be in the Premiership again in 3 or 4 years but some serious rebuilding is required. As noted by my indomitable local councillor we've only got half a squad there and the traditional production line of hottt young talent seems to be drying up a little (well, in fact all sold) apart from young Anthony McNamee, a crowd pleasing tricky little winger.
 
 
Benny the Ball
17:38 / 22.07.05
Haus - players in;

Rune Pedersen (Danish Goalkeeper - know nothing about him)
Gino Padula - from QPR, only 29 (which is okay) and doesn't get injured too easily
Nicky Southall - can't remember where from, 30 something midfielder, okay.
Ian Breckin - Wigan, another 29 year old. Only missed four games last season, and Wigan got promoted, soooooo.
Nicky Eaden - another Wigan player, 32, defender, seems to be replacing Louis-Jean
Gary Holt - 31 midfielder from Norwich I think - okay player, solid enough and was a swop deal.

It's all kind of safe, players that are tried and tested, and there to plug the gaps of the youth that we've sold and the players that were brought in before that really didn't do it.

Players that we could earn money from? Well, Commons is alright, but not going to go for millions. Johnson's on loan with Shefield Utd, and will probably stay there. All the youngsters we have left are okay players, but not going to set the world alight, a la, Jenas and Reid and Dawson.

We shall see though. As long as we remember to play some nice football. I think it will be easier in some ways, the championship has become a tough league, physically I mean, and a lot of players got kicked to shit last season. The 3rd division is just so out there, that apart from the you don't belong there (which we do, we were awful last season) pressure for the first couple of months, there isn't much else. The money's bad, the standard not too different from the 4th, and one magical player can make all the difference.
 
 
The Falcon
18:09 / 22.07.05
I thought Dawson already went to Tottingham?

Anyway, I reckon Hleb's going to be a great buy; I've seen him a couple of times for Belarus and VfB Stuttgart, and he's really in the Nedved-mould of attacking midfielder, sores a few, sets up a lot. Exciting.

Davies for Everton was the other buy that really caught my eye; think he could lend them a new attacking dimension, with those sledging runs down the right.
 
 
The Falcon
18:15 / 22.07.05
P.S. I absolutely hate Graeme Souness, a man who came so very close to the amazing feat of relegating Liverpool, and has won nothing except one Turkish Cup outside Scotland (where Murray's mi££ions propped him, and seriously imbalanced the SPL forever. Wish he'd bought Ayr, like he originally wanted.)

But...

Good signings; Emre is one of Turkey's best ever players, left-sided, experienced and very useful and Scott Parker (so I hear) was the Prem's best player at Charlton. Add the short-fuse genius of Anelka up front and you could be looking at a much more impressive side. Of course, he'll prolly play dull-thug style as he has at every other English team he's managed and it'll fuck up. At least I hope so.
 
 
Benny the Ball
21:40 / 22.07.05
Dawson did indeed already go to SPurs, along with Andy Reid. Dawson still looks clumsy to me. I'm sure he'll get good one day, but at the moment, I'd be tempted to push him into a defensive midfield role, just because as the last man between an attacker and your goalkeeper, he makes me nervous.
 
 
Benny the Ball
23:26 / 03.08.05
Oh nice. Forest have just signed Danny Cullip. I've always rated him as a decent defender and a fairly good leader. So we now have a fairly decent looking defence. I wonder if Scott Dobie will come good in this division - plus with Gareth Taylor looking a better player towards the end of the last season (that terrible, terrible season) and Jack Lester on the mend, things are starting to look up from the City Ground Gutter.
 
 
Brunner
09:29 / 11.08.05
Two days to go before the start of the season and The Arse have shed about 10 players and only signed one. EVERY team has signed more players than Arsenal.

It's the last season at Highbury Mr Wenger so lets go out in style. We need more players.....
 
 
Axolotl
10:33 / 11.08.05
While I agree we could do with more players M. Wenger has never been one to spend unreasonably on players - if he can't get a good player for a reasonable price he just won't sign them. I think this year will be one of consolidation with lots of the young players getting first team experience. Another thing that worries me is whether Henry is going to make a good captain or not. I reckon he's a bit too brittle to make a convincing captain. The goal keeper situation is also still worrying as well.
 
 
Brunner
11:10 / 11.08.05
Phyrephox, agreed re the keeper situation. Seems the Uruguayan Viera failed a medical so the deal was shelved. I'd ideally like a defender and a midfielder with some real presence a la Vieira. Upfront, well I think Quincy will come through, Reyes and van Persie will be better and Henry the star (again). I think he'll be a good captain - it might stop him drifting out of games, especially in Europe. But I don't see us winning anything....
 
 
Benny the Ball
17:52 / 11.08.05
And if Henry gets injured early on, then it could put a lot of pressure on the youngsters coming through. It's odd though, Chelsea seem to have built slightly on last season, but other teams seem to have moved slightly backwards - Man Utd seem caught between slef-destruct mode and flair team lacking one or two great players, Arsenal are, as you say, in a consolidation position, Liverpool are just Liverpool. I don't think much will become clear until several months into the season either.
 
 
Dxncxn
08:11 / 16.08.05
With regards to the choice of Henry as captain, I think there were very few genuine options. I'd argue that, for various reasons, there are only six players at Arsenal who are guaranteed a regulart start (Lehmann, Cole, Lauren, Gilberto, Ljungberg & Henry), and that, given the Cole/Chelsea incident, Henry is the only real choice of the six.

Hleb certainly looks promising, although I think there's an argument to be made that Wenger's collection of attacking midfielders is almost as myopic as George Graham's obsession with centre halves. Or maybe that's a bit harsh, but I do feel that, for the second year on the trot, our only major signing has added to the part of the team that least needs it.

All this is possibly academic, however, since I struggle to see Arsenal finishing anything other than second.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:58 / 16.08.05
And speaking of teams overstuffed with midfielders - Tottenham Hotspur appear finally to be moving towards closure on the Jermaine Jenas question.

This is one of those transfers where, really, nobody seems to benefit. Spurs get more competition in an already clogged midfield (and Davies moving to Bolton won't help much, as he could be played on the right), and his performances for Newcastle suggest he might struggle to get a run in the side and thus start to deliver on that by-now-legendary potential. Jermaine Jenas or Edgar Davids - who would you feel safer about putting in the team when the other was fit? Meanwhile, Newcastle get rid of a midfielder they clearly don't feel they need, but get in exchange one striker whom the manager doesn't rate (suggesting that he is not long for this world, and the board are building for the next manager, and utterly undermining his credibility with an already demoralised team), and not enough cash even to think about getting a striker the manager _does_ rate (unless you think of it as covering Owen's wages, but he'd have to be desparate even to go on loan to Newcastle), leaving the front line still horribly understrength. Meanwhile Scott Parker is still a big question mark, despite an impressive start, and one of the only players that Souness hasn't yet had time to alienate leaves the dressing room...

It's an odd one. I'd like too see Jenas given a chance, and at least the sum involved does seem to suggest that Jol rates him, but it's a slightly odd one.
 
 
Dxncxn
23:24 / 16.08.05
I think that if I were a Newcastle supporter I'd consider any sign that the board were making plans for life after Souness to be very much of the good...

With regards to the Davids move, I'm a little surprised at how unanimously positive the reaction seems to have been. He's capable of being monumentally lazy and half-assed at times (eg the last European Championships). I'd be happy to be proved wrong, since I have a number of Spurs-supporting mates and I assume that the false dawns don't get any less irritating solely by virtue of their frequency. But, despite the fact that the hole in the Arsenal midfield is arguably more or less Davids-shaped, I'm certainly very glad he didn't come to Highbury.
 
 
Benny the Ball
12:44 / 17.08.05
I think that Davids effect is probably seen by many spurs fans as something similar to the Hullit effect at Chelsea, possibly encouraging better players to join Davids there.

The next couple of weeks should be interesting though, some money has now started moving around, so I expect a bit of a flurry before the window closes, maybe not from the bigger boys (although Arsenal still look like they need to sign someone, anyone, just to make it look like they are making an effort to move on from last season) but West Ham are always about looking to make a purchase, Spurs get linked with everyone, but Jenas looks like moving on, Wigan will no doubt raid the three that went down last season, and Villa are due a buy to help cement them as possibly the most uninteresting team in the world.
 
 
astrojax69
00:26 / 25.08.05
window almost closed and palace are not letting andy johnson go. phew! and we might even get clinton morrison to help him out - a sure recipe for promotion back up where we belong, soaring like the super eagles we are...

o, glory is surely ours this season...!
 
 
Bed Head
11:01 / 30.08.05
Holy cow. Owen to Newcastle. It’s official.

I’ll probably regret saying this out loud, but, jeez, I can’t see that solving Newcastle’s problems anytime soon. How far away from fitness is Dyer, Bowyer, anyone else halfway capable of getting up the pitch and passing Owen the ball when he’s at full pelt? He pretty much *just* receives the ball and finishes moves off these days, doesn't he? Not much use in a team that doesn’t really seem to move.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:53 / 30.08.05
It's a very bold move, and some would suggest a slightly silly one. The sums of money being talked about mean that Graeme Souness has pretty much staked his career at Newcastle on Owen coming good pretty quickly, and has also probably eased the pressure on Benitez, who can now say with a clear conscience that £16m was not an offer he could match or wanted to for a player who had not actually demonstrated any improvement since he left Anfield.

So, Souness now has £25m of new strikers and Alan Shearer. Theoretically, an Owen (pacy, draws defenders) and Shearer (powerful, hhits defenders) combo should be desirable, but Shearer's lack of mobility may be a concern - if Owen plays forward, Shearer may not be able to get up in support, and Owen has lost the acceleration that let him beat several defenders on a regular basis. Shearer needs wingers, which Newcastle don't have, and without wingers Owen will lose knock-downs as a potential goal source. Possibly a direct approach with Emre and Taylor working the ball through to (whisper it) Luque to set up Owen might work...

Having said which, I suspect that even a bad Owen season wiill probably yield 15 goals or so, so unless Crouch gets his motor running Benitez might find things a little difficult. On the other hand, with Cisse apparently finding some form and £16m not spent on Owen, perhaps he can go in search of quality wide midfield support.
 
 
Dxncxn
14:45 / 30.08.05
Having seen the whole of their game at Arsenal and the second half of the one at Old Trafford, I don’t think Newcastle are in as much of a mess as the media seem to be making out. I’m not saying they were the better team on either occasion, but they defended ok and were still in each game through 'til about 80 minutes, and there are a number of teams of whom I wouldn’t expect to say the same for what are, after all, two of the four (or so) most difficult fixtures in a Premiership season.

I guess what I mean to say is that they looked a thoroughly average team in desperate need of a striker, and, as such, I’d expect Owen to save them from a relegation battle; although whether or not that’d make their season a success is open to question.

Except, of course, for the fact that come the Christmas transfer window, Owen won’t have played in the Champions League, and could suddenly look very attractive to an injury-hit or goal-shy Champions League team. And given that he clearly didn’t want to go to Newcastle (and was very concerned to keep his options open) I’d be surprised if there isn’t some sort of buy-out clause included in his contract.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:36 / 30.08.05
Ah - that's a very good point. He isn't worth £16m to a team in the Champions' League now, but he might be worth £20m to a team in the Champions' League then, given an injured striker or loss of form, once he has regained match fitness and scored a dozen or so goals. Newcastle remain mid-table, Luque gets time to adjust to the English game, Souness gets reinforcement cash... it could work. If the clubs who were offering £8m are desperate enough to potentially triple that offer to trigger the clause and get Owen later on in the season. Owen, meanwhile, must be as livid as a man who has just received over a million pounds in a signing-on fee and probably no dip in his 80,000-a-week wages can be that he turned out to be nothing like the hot property he clearly thought he was...
 
 
astrojax69
00:48 / 31.08.05
although of course i think owen plays some of his best football coming in from a wing-like position, so mebbe that is the answer- use him at newcastle where he does the most good, not just where the opposition might think to expect him. might be worth a try?

but i agree, even an owen in scintillating form probably won't propel newcastle into champions league contention for next year - mebbe uefa cup? newcastle's issues are deeply systemic and one player here or there won't change much. they need a revolution.

still and all, interesting news!
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
09:17 / 31.08.05
It would've been interesting, I think, to see what'd happen if Newcastle hadn't made that offer for Owen. Would the board have forced Owen on Benitez, with Parry paying the fee from his own pocket? Or would Owen have stayed in Madrid, occasionally getting into the squad as a sub?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:38 / 31.08.05
Probably a one-year loan to Liverpool.

So, what was the most remarkable action of deadline day? Jenas to Spurs was interesting really only for the surprisingly lowprice - Martin Jol's plan to corner the market in midfielders continues apace. Hopefully he'll have more of a chance to develop in a young team with a complement of players large enough for a bit of rotation but not so large that he will get lost totally.

Hume leaving Tranmere is a shame,although it was always going to happen - the arrival of Delroy Facey leaves me a bit cold, but that may simply be because he is one of those players who is consistently better in Championship Manager than reality.

Over at Elland Road, meanwhile, Eirik Bakke's move on loan (and Michael Ricketts' continuing downward spiral) signals the end, pretty much, of the remnants of the free-spending O'Leary years. Wages too high, or a player too fragile for the Championship?

Speaking of which, and of transfers, please join me again in a moment of silence for Seth Johnson.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:42 / 31.08.05
Elsewhere, Simao seems like a good buy for Liverpool - a sort of prototype Cristiano Ronaldo but not as good, he might help to deal with their still-disconcerting weakness on the wings. Likewise, Poom is a temporary solution to Arsenal's goalkeeping weaknesses, but he is a very good keeper who probably should have moved to a bigger club sooner.

Meanwhile... 2 million for David Connolly? What the tits is that about?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:13 / 01.09.05
Ah - looks as if the Simao transfer fell through. That causes some problems...
 
  
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