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Underground > Conversation >

The Ethics of WiFi

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18:56 / 15.07.05

Ok, so I use WiFi on my travels around the city. Most often I use free open nodes such as those provided by Apple at their Apple store or by Islington Council all along Upper Street. However, a neighbour has recently got a wireless broadband connection. I have felt quite happy to use this new resource until it was pointed out to me that said neighbour might possibly have a capped broadband service where that neighbour is meant to download only so much before they get charged for ‘going over their allowance’ rather than an ‘all you can eat’ uncapped service. By utilising the unprotected wifi signal that is leaking from their home into the one that I inhabit, I might possibly be costing them money.

However, their signal is unprotected, seemingly an open invitation to all comers. Broadband Barbelith users, lend me your opinions – do you feel the onus is on WiFi owner to protect their network with a password if they do not want others using it, or is using an open network tantamount to theft?

What do you all think

19:08 / 15.07.05

I have never heard of a capped broadband. How does the wifi work? Is there a fee associated, or is just auto setup to reach out and grab connection in the area?

If you feel really guilty you could send a postcard asking them, and put a ribbon around their door for capped, and if they don't put the ribbon around their door, assume they don't know or care.

19:21 / 15.07.05

You can steal my bandwidth any time, sleazo. You'll have to teach me how to put a password on it though. Don't want the whole street using it, promiscuously. I am not that kind of girl.

semioticrobotic

19:29 / 15.07.05

Some people don't mind being parasites as long as their hosts are unharmed by their activity. In most wifi situations, from what I understand, the host of the signal doesn't lose much from a person leeching the occasional signal, as long as the parasite doesn't do anything so intensive it slows down the performance of the host's connection.

Also, the broadband providers of which I know don't have pricing plans that allow for thresholds or "capped" service, so I'm not sure how this would throw a wrench in my analogy.

19:29 / 15.07.05

Hello, Xoc. You're my wifi naoww...

20:27 / 15.07.05

Semi-relevant Newsweek article

Tryphena Absent

21:04 / 15.07.05

do you feel the onus is on WiFi owner to protect their network with a password if they do not want others using it

Yes. I could go on about how easy it is to protect your WiFi connection and how if you're going to use any internet connection it's the one thing about computer use you should spend some time finding out about but really, simply, yes.

21:24 / 15.07.05

totally agreed w/Nina et al.

21:38 / 15.07.05

There already is an emerging etiquette here, isn't there? What happened to signposting your feelings about others using your wifi? What is it, 'warchalking'? Does this go on (I'm not wifi-savvy enough to notice the signals)?

*

00:56 / 16.07.05

I've been banning people from my wi-fi network lately, only because whatever the hell they've been doing, it soaked up so much bandwidth I could barely load a normal webpage. There didn't seem to be a way to password protect it, so I've just been banning their MAC addresses. And eventually it seems to have worked. Normally, I wouldn't care, but I get pissy when it keeps ME from using my own service.

09:36 / 16.07.05

Er, my girlfriend has a neighbor, I have no idea who, with an open network (in this part of Amsterdam it could be any of 10). I try not to abuse it too much. I have my own network at home but I'm hardly there.

ONLY NICE THINGS

10:00 / 16.07.05

Bear in mind that he who owns the router also knows what you are reading... maybe it's a honey trap.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

10:16 / 16.07.05

My next door neighbour has said that if I get a wireless card he'll give me access to his (password-protected) wifi for the princely sum of a couple of pints every payday. Seems a good deal to me, and as I work at night and he during the day, I can't see myself causing him too many problems.

10:34 / 16.07.05

As far as I can see, using someone else's bandwidth without their permission is equivalent to stealing. Yes, they're stupid not to use proper security if they don't want others to use it but that doesn't make it right. To say otherwise is tantamount to saying that if I don't secure my home properly it's OK for me to be burgled.

10:47 / 16.07.05

Perhaps a compromise would be use it to surf and get your e-mail normally but don't use it to download bit-torrents. Think that shows a certain ammount of respect to whoevers wifi it is.

10:47 / 16.07.05

Unencumbered: Not really. This is internet access we're talking about rather than property theft, and some people actually deliberately leave their connection open for others to use, which is much appreciated.

While I might not want dozens of people poncing off my fat pipe (ahem) had I the technology I would be quite happy providing something like that for anyone who wanted it - and setting up local restricted but broad wifi is good too. The idea of lots of people in neighbouring houses and flats setting up individual wifi nets when they could use the same one is just daft and wasteful.

If somebody has a data cap though, particularly if it's something stupidly mean like 1 gig, that's a slightly different manner. British ISPs are bad like that. I couldn't believe data caps existed at all. But they're gradually disappearing or being extended upwards.

Generally it doesn't bother me. As long as I'm not taking the piss, downloading gigs and gigs for hours and screwing up their bandwidth, I'm not bothered by, say, doing a bit of surfing on somebody in a neighbouring house's wifi if I'm in the pub.

11:44 / 16.07.05

Uh, not really. This is internet access we're talking about rather than property theft, and some people actually deliberately leave their connection open for others to use, which is much appreciated.

If theft is depriving someone of something without their permission and using someone's bandwidth deprives them of the use of all of it and possibly brings them up against a cap, then I still maintain that it's theft.

If the connection is deliberately left open for people to use then asking the owner will establish that and satisfy the requirements of courtesy.

Even if you don't regard using the connection without permission as theft it's certainly very impolite.

12:36 / 16.07.05

The thing is, this Wifi signal is being broadcast into the house I am in. So, I wouldn’t particularly liken it to going into someone else house because it’s not – their signal is invading your house. A more apt analogy is perhaps your neighbour’s fruit tree, whose branches extend into your property. The very presence of those branches over your property could be considered an imposition upon your property. Who does the fruit hanging in your garden, but not on your tree, belong too?

Now, a cautionary principle of 'ask first' could certainly be a wise and considerate, but so is a level of give and take, particularly around areas of ambiguity...

At any rate, it is certainly an interesting ethical question to pose.

16:31 / 16.07.05

I used the WiFi that must have belonged to one of my cousin's next-door neighbors when I was staying with them, but we had no idea which one. I was only there for a couple of days, and it only worked in part of their home, and all I do is check email, so I was grateful. I felt like I should send a thank-you note to all their neighbors, just to try to catch the right one. I suppose that would feel a little odd, so I suspect my use of that free WiFi sans permission was a bit dodgy.

(I think, by the way, with the Fruit Tree Analogy that it is the tree-owner's job to keep the tree properly trimmed; the fruit on your side of the property line is yours. I could be wrong, however. I believe trees are one of the most contentious issues in property law).

17:18 / 16.07.05

Just to add to the debate, there's been a major clash of titans, especially in the states, when it comes to municipal wifi. Telecoms hate the idea (naturally) and see it as an encroachment on their profitability. Metropolitan cities love it and see it as a service they could provide to encourage development, among other things.

Two Republican senators are working on two clashing bills that either throw in for the cities or throw in for the telecom giants. Personally I'd like to see McCain's bill win over the kind of municipal shutdown that's been going on in Florida and other states.

19:24 / 16.07.05

Capped broadband is quite common over here; more and more cheap packages limit transfer to a gig or two a month.

Now, if you're just browsing the net and playing Xbox Live, that's no trouble - but if you're torrenting all the time, that is going to suck up your allowance quickly.

It's one thing to borrow a few k here and there for the odd bit of browsing - picking up the fruit that falls naturally. It's another thing to take a chainsaw to it, which is what using someone else's wifi to torrent and P2P effectively is. In both cases, it's taking that which is not yours - but the owner will be far more sympathetic to the former than the latter.

That is, obviously, in a residential circumstance. If some other company in your office block is swathing the place with wifi to its fat pipe, and it doesn't have the competency to WEP-key it or even to make it a closed network (that you can join if you know the name)... more fool them. It's still stealing, I guess, but it's stealing from irresponsible idiots. I'd be more lenient on a home user just because it's not their job to understand the (resasonably complicated) technology themselves.

If anyone ever found my network and asked to borrow it, I'd probably say yes - I could always decline later. If anyone decided to abuse it without asking, their MAC address goes straight on a ban list.

Still, I think not asking is downright rude, to be honest, and a bit uncivil.

20:30 / 16.07.05

Interesting how many people here would like to be asked first and claim they would probably agree if asked... How well do you guys know your neighbours? Do you know their names? Would you even recognise their faces? Do you even know whose wifi it is that is bleeding into your home? If a complete strange came up to you and told you they were your neighbour and asked if you knew yr wifi was unprotected and asked if you minded him using it - would you stiull say sure, go ahead? Having done so would you expect a lack of torrenting from your neighbour?

19:28 / 17.07.05

As long as no one is uploading kiddie porn or hogging all my bandwidth, I wouldn't much care.

Personally, I carry a WiFi hotspot detector with me when I'm nomadic - find a good spot, sit down, fire up my laptop, handle my letters, pack up, leave.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:52 / 26.07.05

A man was last week fined £500 after a British jury found him guilty of using a neighborhood wireless broadband connection without permission.

Keep your head down Sleaze...

Tryphena Absent

18:05 / 26.07.05

And how do you know who the network belongs to when you live in terraced housing that's been converted into flats? Wouldn't canvassing the neighbours be a bit... weird?

18:15 / 26.07.05

The case Our Lady refers to appears to be entirely different to the situation I outlined above - it involves someone actively seeking out unprotected wireless nodes rather than suffering their intrusion into his own home... there also seems to have been some kind of getting round of passwords involved...

16:51 / 04.10.05

Okay, not really about ethics, but I didn't want to start a new thread.

I want to get online at home. I have an Airport base station, and a modem (but I'm not sure if it works), and a wi-fi enabled laptop. What I want to know is which ISP you might recommend to go with? I've looked at a few, and some of the best deals either aren't in my area or else they don't deal with Macs, so forget about them.

Does anyone use Virgin? I'm kind of loathe to give Branson anymore money, but one giant mediaco is much the same as another, and Virgin has the benefit of not tying you down to a 12mth contract, which really appeals to me. Otherwise, I'll probably wind up going with BT, I guess.

At the moment, I don't download very much beyond a few songs day-to-day, and job application packs or job specs (these are always formatted as .docs instead of .rtf so they take up stupid memory, because most companies are stupid), but I would probably get into more downloading when I'm online more often.

(There's chance we may end up networking with a PC at a later date but it's not an issue right now)

21:12 / 04.10.05

Here's an article on cheap broadband that helped me choose an ISP, perhaps it would help you..

21:48 / 04.10.05

Sleaze - I'd say you could also use your 'tree' anology to reason that the neighbour who plays their music loud enough to be heard in my house, is in effect giving me the right to change the channel if I want to.

Which is a bit lovey-dovey and not gonna happen. The music spilling over your fence can't be helped, as can't wifi signals.

Still, fuck 'em, like.

15:48 / 05.10.05

So, which ISP did you choose, Cherry, and do you recommend them?

I have read up quite a bit about several ISPs before I posted this, and I have discovered that most of them don't offer much of an assistance package if it goes wrong and you're using a Mac, but a few of them do. I know that Virgin, BT and Globalnet do, and I know that the latter two have come recommended by friends, but they both tie one down to a 12mth contract. Virgin doesn't, officially, though they do charge £50 if you don't give them a month's notice of leaving. But I still like the idea of a non-contract, so I was hoping someone could tell me how they are. Someone must use them who also uses a Mac and wi-fi? Somewhere out there!

18:14 / 05.10.05

Why don't they have wireless ISPs yet?

What's standing in the way of being, like, a cross between a local ISP and a low-watt radio station, setting up a room with a few servers and a big router with a really huge antenna?

Anybody want to go into business with me?

19:21 / 05.10.05

Sleaze - I'd say you could also use your 'tree' anology to reason that the neighbour who plays their music loud enough to be heard in my house, is in effect giving me the right to change the channel if I want to.

I don't think your analogy quite fits the situation since it isn't the presence of the 'music' that is the bone of contention, more the asertion that i shouldn't be using it. Of course, I sincerely doubt many neighbours who are playing their music loud would begrudge the person sext door for dancing around to their music...

19:23 / 05.10.05

Of course you listening to your neighbour's music through the walls is also unlikely to use up their 'music allowence' any quicker...

Mon Oncle Ignatius

19:33 / 05.10.05

Anna - not tried them for WiFi access, but maybe PlusNet's wireless broadband might be of use. They are certainly au fait with Mac, Linux, etc etc and not just Windows as far as their wired service goes.

It's accessed through BT Openzone hotspots though, whatever implications that might have for you.

19:35 / 05.10.05

I went with madasafish, because they seemed like the best value for superfast download + fairly large download limit. I am not sure if I reccommend them though, because when I first got the service I had a really awful time with their customer service department. However, one angry letter later, I was the recipient of an apologetic phonecall from a company bigwig + four months free broadband and a much higher download limit. So they sorted things out for me - but I still had a hassle with them (at first). They do tie you into a contract with an £80 termination fee, so be careful..

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