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Killer7

 
  

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lord nuneaton savage
07:59 / 03.08.05
I'm actually buying the PS2 back off my ex so I can play this. Come on payday.

It had better be bloody good, or I'm going to feel like a right tool.
 
 
iamus
21:07 / 03.08.05
Got this yesterday, though I probably shouldn't have. I've been keeping an eye on it for quite some time but considering how I'm looking at money this month I might not have bought it if it wasn't for this thread.

I was a little worried at first because it really didn't grab me right from the off and I wasn't sure why. There was a shaky moment where I was considering bringing it back to swap it for Resident Evil (which I haven't played yet) or something else. I'm now about to go into the third mission and it's started getting its hooks right into me.

I'm not so sure it's quite as revolutionary as it's being made out though. Its roots are rather clear, particularly in the debt it owes to early Resident Evils. This is most blatant in the puzzles (of the Odd Engraving/Key school) so far, but it is similar also in the overall design, from the way save rooms are located in levels to many other little details, it often feels to me like Resi on rails. There is a lot more to it than that, but it's less of a revolution than it is an evolution.

As mentioned upthread, it represents a comprehensive streamlining. It's like the developers have really sat down with the genre, looked hard at all it's little peculiarities and been pretty ruthless about what they deem necessary to make it work, and what they see as the excess baggage that's accumulated on it over the years, all that stuff that's just worked its way into the genre and stayed there unquestioned. They've carved out all the useless, ornate shit to produce a straight-down-the-line visceral thrill of a game (something reflected just as well in the visual aesthetic as it is in the gameplay). The result is refreshingly.....fresh. But it's not brand spanking new.

Comment more when I get further in.
 
 
The Strobe
20:05 / 04.08.05
Brief thoughts having begun Sunset and finished Angel.

I love the aesthetic. I love the interface. I love the characters. I also really love the way the plot - and indeed, the background-story - is unfolding. It's definitely _cool_. It's also slightly disorienting to play at times - constantly talking to Iwakuza, Travis, Yoon-Hsung. I don't even know if I've spelt the names right... but you know who I mean. Also, I'm pretty impressed with the voice acting.

What I'm still a little concerned about is whether or not it's fun. I mean, I'm enjoying it - but not as much as I'm appreciating it. Still, I've only just finished the "tutorial" mission... and Sunset looks to be more of a challenge.

Still, glad I bought it. More when I've got further, and have more concrete thoughts.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:56 / 06.08.05
What difficulty are you guys playing it on? I've a feeling that Capcom forgot to rename the settings for US and European releases - usually, JPN Normal becomes Euro Easy and JPN Hard Euro Normal, but that's not the case here. Other than altering the timing of counters to make pulling them off a matter of being far more precise, the difficulty sounds like it's unchanged.

And really, I think Normal should be considered Easy here. The amount of help you get on the map in Normal is seriously over the top. Hard (or Deadly) is a much more rewarding experience, especially on later levels, with only that one mini-boss I mentioned to hb providing too much of a spike.
 
 
iamus
17:08 / 06.08.05
I've been playing it on normal so far, but I haven't really used the map at all. The level layouts are straightforward enough so far to make it redundant, and none of the puzzles have really stumped me yet. I did start off playing on deadly to begin with, after your comments upthread but, I wasn't able to get into the flow of how it plays without dying a lot and getting frustrated at having to retread ground with Garcian.

At point of typing, I've just gotten into the fight with Ulmeyda. Things are a little.....odd.
 
 
hanabius yamamura
19:48 / 06.08.05
re with only that one mini-boss I mentioned to hb providing too much of a spike

... funny you should mention that Randy, 'cause, currently sitting at the end of level 4 (I assume you're meanin' encounter), I still found those two men I previously mentioned far more irritating and difficult ... havin' said that tho, it's now gettin' progressively more f@#kin' hard ... ... ...

... still bloody good fun tho
 
 
Laughing
11:35 / 08.08.05
This game is aces. The style of it is fantastic, and the laughter of the Heaven's Smiles is just twisted. And Con Smith is the man! The way he reloads his pistols is probably my favorite visual.

That said, I do have one gripe. Are the puzzles as easy on Hard mode as they are on Normal? You're all but given the solution to every puzzle immediately before attempting it. Granted, I'd rather have a game that was too easy instead of too hard, but still.

I don't understand the Garcian / Harman relationship. Is Harman one of Garcian's personalities, or vice versa? Or are they two seperate people? When you get control of Harman in the first level, your character disappears and is replaced with Harman being wheeled about by Maid Samantha. So Harman isn't seperate from the rest of the Smiths? If not, how does Garcian talk to him face-to-face in the trailer? And if Samantha appears with Harman (as she does in the first level), is she also a seperate personality? Would that make it Killer 9?

I really like the TV set and security camera as the means to switch bodies / personalities. The Smiths' transformation looks to be facilitated by television. That's neat. Could the Smiths be TV characters that found way a to take control of a a person's body (Garcian's and/or Harman's) in order to be "real"? I'm only on the fifth level of the game, so I'm probably way off on my theory. But I'm eager to see what the actual story is.

There is an actual story, right?
 
 
Laughing
11:35 / 08.08.05
And what the hell is in that vault in the trailer?
 
 
w1rebaby
13:07 / 08.08.05
I'm wondering whether I should start the game on Hard, because I'm never going to play the whole thing again if I finish it on Normal.

I hate games with difficulty levels. The instinct is always to start it on the easiest one so that you can learn the moves, but then you always end up playing it for a bit longer than you think you will, and have to restart on Hard and bore yourself repeating things you've already done.

The only exception I can think of was Goldeneye, where what you actually had to do to complete levels was actually very different between difficulties. On Agent it was a Doom-style shoot-em-up, whereas on 00 Agent it was very much a sneaker.

Slightly put off by my complete inability to grasp the controls last night, but then I'd just been playing GTA and so was thinking "third-person -> free movement with analogue stick".
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:41 / 08.08.05
I really don't know now. Maybe playing it on Normal until you get the hang of the controls, then starting over on Deadly is the way to go. Once you've got the first level down, you can crack through it a second time in about ten minutes.

It's best to stick with levelling up one or two characters, rather than trying to spread serum equally, as it's not possible to get everybody maxed out. Certain of them, once you get them to a certain level, gain a limb-specific lock-on. Level them up a bit more and this turns into a critical lock-on, which automatically targets the glowing wekpoints on basic Smiles. Note that it's different than the B-button lock, which simply spins your view around to the nearest Smile. This one, you have to have the aiming reticule pointing towards the Smile and press the left trigger - the scan button. So it and your aim will shift straight to the weakpoint.

Sounds like hand-holding, but it becomes essential in later stages on Deadly. When the screen's filled with Smiles, you get into a rhythm of scan, shoot, scan, shoot (if you're using Con, it's scan, shoot, fuck you, scan, shoot, fuck you).

Best characters to go for are Con and Dan. Con, as I said before, has the highest rate of fire and doesn't need to reload as often, which can be helpful if you're having trouble hitting weakpoints in one or two shots. Dan is the only personality that can kill Mother Smiles and Duplicators in one shot, which means that you often have no choice but to use him. I'd concentrate on getting these tow levelled up (Con, incidentally, gains the critical lock-on when he's at a lower level than Dan).

There's an upper limit on the amount of thick blood you can get converted into serum on any one level. Make sure you hit it, so that you know you're getting characters levelled as high as they can be.

Puzzles are more difficult on Deadly, as far as I can tell. The very first one, with the candles, requires a little bit more thought than it does on Normal. Not a huge amount, mind. Don't know about later ones, as I didn't do much on Normal. On Deadly, it costs blood just to get the first hint from the guy holding the red mask, whereas you get that for free on Normal. You can make the puzzles more difficult for yourself on Normal just by ignoring him, though. I did/would.

Not going to spoil the story for anybody. I'll just say that while I'm pretty sure I figured most of it out, the contents of the locked room still hurt my head.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
14:46 / 08.08.05
Jack Thompson targets Killer 7 for "MO" rating due to sexual content.

It's almost like 1993 and "Nintendo Killed My Son!" again, innit?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:16 / 08.08.05
I'm not too sure that Thompson represents the threat that some believe. Given that his responses to emails presenting counter-arguments have apparently ranged from "you're obviously ill and need to book yourself into an institution" to "I'm a lawyer, you're not, shut up," he's probably doing more damage to the 'games are evil' crowd than anything else.

And of course, there's the small matter of him not actually having played K7, nor even having seen it, his complaint being based on something that he read in a review.
 
 
hanabius yamamura
10:41 / 09.08.05
re I'll just say that while I'm pretty sure I figured most of it out, the contents of the locked room still hurt my head

... and, as I commence another period of K7-lessness (due to packing up my 'cube to move house), this statement drives my eager anticipation about finding out what is actually going on to sweaty-palmed feverish levels
 
 
Jack Vincennes
19:26 / 09.08.05
My experience of games is generally quite limited, and within that generally limited to watching Paleface play them. Most of the time, I quite enjoy this, and in fact will watch GTA:SA in preference to, for example, reading a serious book or doing the washing up. Since Killer 7 entered our lives, all this has changed. Everything about it leaves me, if not actually terrified (the laughs at the start, the laughs at the start), certainly with the beginnings of the biggest headache of all time. The hideous voices of the dead people! The fact that nothing can happen for more than five minutes without the screen flickering! Iwazaru! The scanning for Heaven Smile effect!

I'd normally keep this kind of thing to myself but this was a game I was quite looking forward to seeing, and even now I want to like it; the art is obviously excellent, it's quite witty, it contains Smiths quotations and a dude called Mask de Smith - but it's making me feel really quite disconcerted in a way I can't quite define. I'm not sure I should be this scared by a game I'm not playing...

Also, the dead child with no eyes just got some screen time. The terror... the terror.
 
 
iamus
18:02 / 17.08.05
Ok, so I'm finished this now and I'm currently halfway into the second level of the new difficulty setting.

I'll get back with more on this later, but that ending.......
 
 
hanabius yamamura
20:33 / 25.08.05
... after a moderately lengthy hiatus to move house etc, I'm back on killer 7 and I can honestly say I'm gonna put my foot through the f@#kin' screen if I don't kill that pigeon-shouldered b@st@rd soon ...

... still bloody good fun though
 
 
hanabius yamamura
21:38 / 03.09.05
... finished

... in a word, awesome ... AND, I think I've got 75%ish of the plot figured out! ... ... ...

...

...

... awesome

h
 
 
madfigs #32, now with wasabi
04:33 / 04.09.05
For those who've finished the game, there's a pretty interesting story analysis up on gameFAQs (spoilers, obviously). It has a lot of annotations about how the game relates to Japanese history that I absolutely wouldn't have understood otherwise.

I'm still working through Killer8 mode, but Taiko Drum Master is taking up more and more of my time recently...
 
 
hanabius yamamura
08:20 / 04.09.05
re AND, I think I've got 75%ish of the plot figured out!

... although having just dipped briefly into the plot analysis, I could be completely wrong and I actually understand only 0.75%ish of the plot

h
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
01:37 / 30.09.05
I pick up my copy from the post office this weekend, I hope. I am very, very excited.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
02:06 / 22.10.05
It finally arrived, late, and I'm finally playing it. Only up to the tutorial level so far (as boozing at The Hives beckoned last night) but I'm digging it. It's rather... nasty and creepy. So far, at least. And I'm assuming it gets worse.

I likes it. Vaguely Kraftwerk, some of the graphics. A really distinctive look, and the on-rails mechanic seems to work really well.
 
 
rising and revolving
15:16 / 22.10.05
In somewhat depressing news, it seems that Killer 7 has only sold about 35K units in North America. Which helps to prove the case against developing more bat-shit stuff along these lines ...

Does anyone know how it sold in Japan?
 
 
akira
14:26 / 10.03.06
Looks like Killer7 will follow in Street Fighter & Dantes footsteps, a comic will be out soon. Some pics here.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
15:33 / 10.03.06
It's out already - #1 was in my local comic shop last time I went in, a couple of weeks back. Didn't bother flicking through it - can't really see the point.
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
10:13 / 05.12.07
So Suda 51 returns with the very Killer 7 looking 'No More Heroes' early next year.

Why, oh why am I getting a 360 and not a Wii?

Early vids look good. The rail system has gone, but the insanely over-the-top bloodletting remains. We're dealing with hitmen again and Suda 51 has mentioned in interviews that the game will be heavily influenced by Jodorowsky's 'El Topo.'

Something that some of us had pointed out before (you have to scroll down a bit. Look for the section called "Master this is serious...").
 
 
Mug Chum
09:17 / 10.04.08
I'm in doubt on whether to get this or 'No More Heroes' (or just wait for 'Okami' and decide on the two afterwards).

Killer7 seems to be the easier option. The visuals, the weird surreal beauty, storytelling and how the overall just blend seems to pull me stronger. But one foot is not going foward by wondering how, I don't know, "clunky" it'd be playing it now concerning the controls, and how the overall puzzle experience seems to be more in touch with the types of Resident Evil (and the prospect of having to buy a gamecube controller isn't very attractive -- even if it could be a investiment for future games, I can't think of any other gamecube game I'd like to play as much as this one).

NMH seems to have similar but very watered down visuals and oddities (cutting the overall streamlined experience for a very superficial GTA-ness) while mixing a sort of Scott Pilgrim feel of broad self-referential nintendo/VG geekiness combined with Kill Bill's pastiche of violence that just seems more like brainless fun, but much more fun -- even if it's made out of button-mashing and gamegrind. And the controls seem like a possible attractive feature, specially contrasting with the usual clunkiness of console-aiming of K7.

So it seems like "unique but flawed experience" VS "gaming at its most vapid but lots of fun".

Any "oh c'mon stupid, it's obvious! Buy ___" suggestions?
 
 
Baroness von Lenska
06:45 / 12.04.08
Lovely to see this bumped. Can't comment on NMH yet (except to say the music is totally awesome) but I feel I should step up in defense of Killer7's "awkward" gameplay. Nearly all of my thoughts on the overall experience of the game, whether gameplay, puzzles or story aspects can be summed up thusly: It takes some getting used to. It's very different from a typical game experience, except not as much as you might initially think. Really, just play it. You'll see.

Given how prevalent the complaints against the controls are, I find it odd that Killer7 is one of my favorite "pick up and play" titles. It's very fun and hardly awkward at all once you get the hang of it. The quick, frantic action makes it ideal for short ten to fifteen minute play sessions. In the climate of Longer Cutscenes, More Dialogue and Bloated Unnecessary Subquests, it's refreshingly brisk and bare bones without sacrificing any depth or artistic merit. In fact, that's just the best way to describe what Killer7 is: it's an action/adventure title without any of the unnecessary elements. No wandering through long hallways with row after row of unusable prop doors. No popping in and out of every room in a level just to collect one key item. No colored keys. In context, it makes a great deal of sense to go with the sort of design Killer7 does. The characters clearly have a preset plan, an aim and a purpose for being where they are and doing what they're doing. You wouldn't infiltrate a terrorist base by stumbling drunkenly from room to room.

Players more accustomed to typical action titles might feel that the design results in a loss of "freedom," but it's really a removal of one of the most obvious immersion-breakers: players. By not being able to directly control any of the characters, a (probably intentional given the concepts and ideas the game slings around) barrier of dissociation is set up between the player and Garcian (+theSmiths). You might (sort of) control Garcian, but "you" are not "him." He is not "your guy." He's some other guy; the focal point for a story being told. It may seem a bit weird at first, not being able to directly control the characters, but I think it really, really works for Killer7 both as a game and as a platform for storytelling.

My advice? Maybe rent the game and plow through the Angel episode and the first Sunset episode. If you're still unsure, NMH or Okami might be better choices.

As far as the puzzles go, I wouldn't say they're RE fare so much as parodies of RE fare. They're all very, very, very easy. Almost with an ironic sense of humor easy.
 
 
Mug Chum
09:14 / 12.04.08
I think this is it then. Okami first, then getting ready for this right after (and I'm sure coming back here to drool). And from the reviews, I'm feeling NMH will be too much button-mashing "action" boredom instead of the brainless fun I thought.
 
  

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