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ID cards in the light of 7/7

Quantum

17:46 / 13.07.05

So, I couldn't find a more recent ID card thread than I despair... and in the light of recent events I fear it will be back with a vengeance as an issue.

I'm against it, as an unnecessary and expensive excuse to infringe my civil liberties, but there are those for them and against.

So are they essential anti-terror tools or an insidious plot by The Man?

Here's some older threads for reference;
ID cards and you have to pay for them '03
Talk of ID cards '01
Taking a STAND against ID cards '03
Here it comes...ID cards for everyone '01

Quantum

17:58 / 13.07.05

'Identity cards would not have stopped the London bombings which killed more than 50 people and injured many more, Charles Clarke has said.
But the home secretary said on balance he believed ID cards would help rather than hinder the ability to deal with particular terrorist threats.

He also suggested that in future civil liberties might have to be curtailed.'
(from bbc.co.uk 8th July)

Tryphena Absent

23:07 / 13.07.05

As I understand it ID cards would help the fight against terror nationally but these events were apparently carried out by British citizens who they've traced within a week of the bombings. The police are currently reading airline lists to see who has left the country recently in order to connect a person from outside the UK with the attack on London. If ID cards wouldn't have helped stop the terrorist attack on the 7th July and wouldn't have helped in the aftermath of it then I'm confused as to how they would help trace terrorists or prevent any kind of attack at all. So how would they stop terrorism or hinder any type of terrorist threat? Charles Clarke can't explain how ID cards would help security in any but the most vague way.

Mobile phones were not used in this case, but is it even true that the only way you can trace a mobile phone is through registration linked to an ID card?

Quantum

08:56 / 14.07.05

Perhaps they'll make him feel more secure, like a gonk or a linus blanket. Then he knows who the foreigners are and can combat the ever present threat of immigrants rescuing the NHS. Phew. Why is every politician basically a tory now?

Brunner

09:25 / 14.07.05

But ID cards will be voluntary - at least to start with. How's that going to help?

Plus, given this governments track record with new IT systems, I doubt whether a) the cost will be as low as they believe and b) the technology behind the card will ever function properly.

Whale... Whale... Fish!

09:42 / 14.07.05

The only thing I heard in the wake of the bombings that would ID cards would have helped with, was brought up on (I think) a late night News 24 programme or something similar by a commentator, which was that ID cards would have helped indentify the victims, grizzly as that is.

Evil Scientist

10:02 / 14.07.05

I don't see that it would have helped to identify the bodies. People frequently carry a number of different cards with some kind of identifier on them (driving licenses, etc). I don't really see how the i.d. cards would help, unless it was mandatory to carry them.

Whale... Whale... Fish!

10:31 / 14.07.05

Biometrics and various bodyparts sprung to mind.

Nasty as it is he did have a point.

Not this is in anyway an arguement for ID cards. Although I wouldn't put it past them. Actually i can see Charles Clark saying "ID cards would help the emergency services be able to indentify and find all your bits after those satanic Islamists blow you into little pieces."

Brunner

10:56 / 14.07.05

I don't have enough space in my wallet for another card...

ID I currently have in my wallet:

* Drivers licence
* 2 x VISA cards
* 2 x bank debit cards
* Professional Membership card
* NI number card
* Nectar (earn points for crap rewards) card

Last 2 very sad....but how is a non-compulsory ID card really gonna improve on that?

Our Lady Has Left the Building

14:45 / 14.07.05

It reminds me somewhat of the 'tuition fees' argument, you had a policy that it could be argued would make a working class university student slightly better of and penalise middle-class families. Because of protests it got voted through changed so that it penalised everyone.

ID Cards are the same. They won't do anything to stop terror, illegal working, hospital treatment holidays, but they would do a very little bit if they were complusory and had a lot of people's personal data on there. In order to try and minimise the complaints from backbenchers and the public, the Home Secretary has announced they won't be compulsory to own or carry and won't have much by way of personal data on there. So they are expensive and effectively useless.

Tom Morris

07:29 / 15.07.05

"essential anti-terror tools or an insidious plot by The Man?"

Neither. Just what happens if you get a group of not-particularly-competent and not-particularly-intelligent people together in Whitehall and let them run loose on the statute books. The Conservatives tried it when they were in power, and now New Labour have tried it.

grant

14:23 / 15.07.05

From the coverage I've heard here in the states, it really seems like, if not ID cards per se, people are really into the fact that surveillance cameras were useful in tracking and identifying the bombers.

So the surveillance state is scoring on that front.

All Acting Regiment

21:06 / 16.07.05

Much as we here are looking at this rationally, I fear that people who have been scared by the attacks might not do so. Also, we have had to look hard to get what information we have; many people don't have the time. Combine the two and potentially we have a large group of scared, uninformed people who through no fault of their own will accept- not even "allow", "accept"- bad legislation. Is this a likely situation?

pornotaxi

11:32 / 18.07.05

the cards are are red herring - its the database that they want. the proposed legislation includes future provision that makes it mandatory for card holders to inform the state when moving address - failure to comply carries a possible three year jail term.

i believe the database is to be compiled for a number of reasons, but the most compelling reason seems to be the high credit nature of uk society - calling in the debts via this database will become far easier for corporate companies. too many people drop out of sight meantime.

it will take a few years before corporate interests gain access to the database but it's only a matter of time - after all, the state apparatus primarily serves them, not the public generale

bjacques

17:11 / 18.07.05

That might be the same dodge the Dutch government uses. No, you don't have to carry it, but if you get accosted by a policeman who thinks you're committing a crime (brawling, speeding, fare-jumping), and you can't identify yourself, it's a 50 euro fine. Happily, an ID card is perfectly acceptable identification!

macrophage

21:28 / 26.07.05

The buggers already have running databases they are called police national computer, national insurance, the tax revenues, driving licences, housing registars, credit and bank databases (which the police can look at if they have got tipped off about irregular payments that seem big), electoral rolls, etc. These are all binds which Control run in deep supercomputers not to mention MI5 and Special Branch. Look at the PTA Act fucking stoopid anyone can get labelled a terrorist for sure. Just microchip everyone, barcode them and stick them in the salt mines you fucking bunch of impotent bereaucrats and track them down for meat like "Soylent Green" - errm, a sick joke perhaps! So much for Free Trade and the Globalist Happyfaced State!!! Biometrics, eye scans, etc,, all possible - very much too much dollars though!!!!

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