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Eastwood's Mystic River

 
 
Mug Chum
22:24 / 12.07.05
I have now watched for about the 10th time...

I swear. I don't get it. I. Just. Don't. Get. It. I just can't seem to get in it's frequency, atuned to it.

First time I saw it seemed to me something straight out of a extremist right wing shelf. A True Man's film...

" --We're descendent from irish, drink whisky, we're full of sorrow and pain, skeletons in our closet and mistakes on our shoulders but that doesn't stops us from doing what we have to. WE are not castrated and for those of them who are, too bad for them; maybe they deserve what's coming to them. Oh, and the whole world is going straight to hell. Goddamn kids getting worse all the time in a wasteland of dirty perversion & no morals. And grown men seems to stay more and more in adolescence. A f&^%$@ teenage wasteland!"

Seemed like somthing one of my friend's dad would appreciate. Or at least be in tuned with. But seemed simplistic to me. It couldn't be that. That wasn't really on the same grounds of what I was thinking american culture was standing on, even more with all those reviews and awards.

That was the first time. But that wasn't right. The hype surrounding never mentioned anything like that at all. Second time I watched it was all just like the first time but now with a drop of nihilism. And a little more of a tragedy as a plot and less of a right wing representation of the world today.

By the times I kept watching, many things sprung from the views: violence in comunity and individuals; the state of Fear; analogies with Bush governement; America and the 9-11; a film trying to be about pure characters and plot; a tragedy; dot dot dot

But NONE of these really stick, you know... Maybe I didn't have enough suspension of disbelief to fall in those characters and in the plot. Maybe i didn't submit myself enough to Eastwood's leading and cues. Maybe i'm not in it's frequency, since I'm whole far away from such culture, age, responsabilities etc...

So somebody, PLEASE... Gimme a light here. What did you think about this film? Ideas and viewpoints are more then welcome.

I hope some discussion will arise, since I've been noticing, not even concerning "what 'scene x' means" or "what did character x meant by z" people are agreeing when I talk to them about this movie.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:13 / 13.07.05
The only thing Mystic River is really 'about' is its own importance, seriousness, gravitas, depth. It is a collection of signifiers, or cinematic rhetorical ticks - child abuse; the murder of a young girl; a damaged child-man; a tormented cop; friends grown apart - which do not add up to a coherent whole because they are not meant to. They are only intended to add ponderous weight to Eastwood's simple, plodding narrative, which might as well be a 45 minute episode of a cop show. It is the most empty kind of middle-brow film-making, devoid of either the delirious flash, dazzle and bang of great Hollywood pictures, or the more esoteric delights of the arthouse at its best.

Lawrence Fishburne is quite good, though, probably just because he looks relieved to be in a movie which is not part of teh Matrix.
 
 
matthew.
14:21 / 13.07.05
It's about moral ambiguity. You aren't supposed to align yourself with either Sean Penn's character or Tim Robbins'. The only person that stands as a moral beacon is Kevin Bacon, but since his life is somewhat in shambles, the audience's focus must drift somewhat.

Clint Eastwood is getting more recognition as he gets older because every movie he seems to choose has interesting moral dilemmas. Take, for example, High Plains Drifter, a movie in which the protagonist has exactly the same moral code as every other character, including the supposedly neutral victimized town folk. Or, another example is A Perfect World. Kevin Costner's character has the same ideals as Clint Eastwood's character. Another example would be Unforgiven, my bid for the world's greatest western. All in all, that movie is a moral quagmire, just like Eastwood's newest film, Million Dollar Baby.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:33 / 13.07.05
It's not about moral ambiguity. Tim Robbins is a simple child-man who didn't murder Sean Penn's daughter, Sean Penn kills him because he thinks he did. It's a fuck-up based on anger and impatience. There's very little moral ambiguity there. Moral ambiguity would have been if Robbins' character had killed the daughter, wasn't mentally capable of understanding what he'd done, and Penn had executed him anyway.
 
 
Mug Chum
20:18 / 13.07.05
But even so, like Flyboy said, all such themes and moral dilemmas, never add to a coherent whole. No part of the film never "insists", never solidify on any particular thing on no part of it whatsoever. No part of the film connects with an entirety or even speaks with some other part. Or it seems, at least…

The "child abuse theme" becomes a good example of everything on the movie that's "there", but it's NOT. It isn't quite there. There's no "depth". There are only characters that had to deal with it one time in their lives, pretty much always out of the screen. I kept thinking if any "theme" was always only suggested and worked only through subtle and invisible ways, but i can't get anything by that road. It still seems like a regular story with the hyped themes just mentioned or blabbered one time or another.

I find it hard to believe that such hype around the film would be completely void. 'Till now, the film is pretty much void to me. "Devoid of either the delirious flash, dazzle and bang of great Hollywood pictures, or the more esoteric delights of the arthouse at its best." But I TRULY believe there's something wrong with the way I'M watching it. It just can't be... I'm not even sure if I agree that those were the "greatest actings of american cinema in the last years". I think they're all fine actors (i think Sean Penn is the new Brandon, for god's sake! ), but i formed no relationship with these characters at all. There wasn't the slightest suspension of disbelief, they were all just Sean, Tim, Kevin, Lawrence etc etc...

I can see little things that might be strokes of a old fart who's a matured and subtle genious. That "heavenly bullet"; the wash of the bloody rag in Tim Robbin's sink (that water must be going to the Mystic, right?); and there's something truly great about that damn river, truly mystic concerning the plot; the music is superb; that shot were Sean Penn's daughter comes in her car, and the camera sits in the backseat, as if something is always coming behind us when we least suspect (reminds me of that "Vive La Fear" by G. Morrison).

One cool thing, but still doesn't add to anything coherent, is all the hidden little skeletons in the closets. Little things along the film that had no significance, but after all is revealed, it's quite disturbing (the relationship between Sean Penn and Just Ray's son Brandon; The hockey stick in the little mute's hand right after the daughter's killing as if nothing had happen; Sean Penn trying to get over his old "self" and past...). These things add up to some points of view I heard that the film is a Tragedy, but it doesn’t seem to clothe the entire territory.

And I don't know if Bacon is the moral referece in all this. It seems we adopt Lawrence's point of view as voyeurs in a story-neighbourhood that we don't really know or belong to. Maybe the primordial moral axis is the law enforcers. But i don't know, this work seems to me a nihilist and cynical film, where we lost our trust in religion and in the law (the priest and the cop at the beginning), but walk far away from anarchism and stands more on the grounds of "gangsters" trying to get some autonomy from institutions that they no longer trust, and takes things by their own hands (King Penn and the Savage Brothers...).
(PS: THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS I GOT IN MY VIEWINGS, BUT STILL, NO COHERENCE IN THE WORK AS AN ENTIRITY)

It might be a subtle film. Or it might be just pure apathy. Jimmy kills Dave as a mistake, but the film doesn’t show any sign of “wow that was a fuck up…”, nor either shows itself for nothing, no leading at all. I can’t seem to point if it’s blank with apathy or subtlety beyond most artistic sensibilities; or even a right wing sensibility…

It’s not so much about moral ambiguity since there’s no moral on any part, not by the film, not by the characters nor the plot (since the narrative don’t dwell on them that much). No moral dilemmas, no poetic justice, not even a suggestion of a suppressed poetic justice. It’s almost a brutally nihilistic storyteller going on about things unfolding in a way that doesn’t make “sense” or any significance (and the storyteller seems to suggests that it doesn’t have to make sense. Things happen, no whys, hows or anything; and we shouldn’t be even asking for them). But that makes a damn weird Oscar-hyped film.
(OTHER THINGS I GOT WITH ONE OF TOO MANY VIEWINGS)


But I still feel completely damn wrong.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:22 / 14.07.05
I would just try to relax and forget all about it.
 
 
Mug Chum
14:50 / 14.07.05
oh, at this stage i just can't...

there might be a whole right wing fever starting and i want to be on top on things! i need to understand why so much praise and hype, at least.

maybe i should start stalking Eastwood...
 
 
matthew.
15:35 / 14.07.05
Should we blame Eastwood for this movie, then? If everybody seems to hate it so much because it's such an incoherant nihilistic mess, let's blame the celebrities and critics who hyped it up. They must not understand it, or better yet, they're just too stupid. They get suckered into the incoherency and think it's pure brilliance, when in reality, it's a waste of two hours. No, even better, let's blame the author, Dennis Lehane, who just wanted to throw some ideas together and not have anything come up. He had no intention other than to make a buck. Yeah, let's blame him for this bland, melodramatic movie that means absolutely nothing. One of the worst movies of all time. Yeah. Just because it won a couple of fucking Oscars it becomes poison. Meaningless middle-brow dreck.

I fucking hate art-house pretension. "Esoteric" my foot. Try meandering and pointless. Eastwood's not perfect, but he's all that mainstream Hollywood's got.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:14 / 14.07.05
Calm yourself!
 
 
Mug Chum
20:52 / 14.07.05
blame? no one looking for someone to blame here...

it's quite the opposite. I found "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil" pretty damn cool. I got emotioned seeing "Perfect World" as a kid. And "The Unforgiven" i think it's a master piece of cinematography and western (though i think it's quite beyond western and beyond any desconstructed western...).

I have a feeling in my gut that Mystic River is a damn good film. Not looking for anyone to blame 'cause I haven't seen anything great in it. I'm looking for a perspective where I could confirm my instincts. 'Cause for my own perspective, I feel there's a big fuckin block in front of it.

And since Barbelith is top one of the smartest forums on the net, i decided to call for aid in here.

(by the way, how come barbelith is so... i don't know... deserted? Seems to be very little activity going on here)
 
 
grant
20:55 / 15.07.05
Have you read the novel? Apparently, it gets deeper than the film (or so my friend who read the thing says).
 
 
matthew.
02:11 / 18.07.05
I recommend reading all of Lehane's novels except his last one (which was similar to, at best, a direct-to-video thriller starring Eric Roberts or any former porn-star).
 
 
Mug Chum
03:56 / 18.07.05
reading the book might be a good idea (though I still wanted to undestand Eastwood's film by itself)
something i've been thinking about doing it for weeks now...

(curious bit: here in Brazil both the book's and the film's title were translated to "Concerning Boys & Wolves")
 
 
matthew.
13:16 / 18.07.05
Excellent alternate title.
 
 
Peach Pie
17:24 / 11.05.07

I got pissed in the opening sequence. It was poorly lit and the the dialogue between the three boys was redundant in terms of establishing the relationship between them. (I'd watched 'stand by me' the previous night, so maybe my immediate memory pegged my expectations of child character nuances well above average). There were no character traits in the boys which made the characters identifiable as adults, bar timidity in the Robbins chracter.

I didn't like the way the characters were written. The male characters had little depth - the women were divided into girlie playthings or world-weary and fed up. Nothing else.

The river as a sinister body with secrets to give out has already been done a lot in film. For all of which there was no great point in its location in the story. Unlike something like "Don't look now", where water served as a symbol for psychic channelling as well as tragedy.

I think a "thrilling" thriller is one which leads you inexorably away from the identity of the real criminal, but teases you with his motive early on, so you can get it if you really sharp. The audience had no opportunity to form a relationship with the actual culprit.

When I watched the "how we made this film" short, Tim Robbins says at one point "Clint doesn't like rehearsing... and I'm ok with that". It's the one time I've felt privately sure that screen tensions were present between director and cast from watching a movie docushort.
 
  
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