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Olympics 2012

 
  

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STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:02 / 06.07.05
(note to mods- wasn't sure whether to put this here or in Switchboard- I tend to think of it more as a political issue, but it IS a big sporting event, so I'm told! I will totally understand if a move is thought necessary).

So, today is the day they decide on the 2012 Olympics, and frankly I'm shitting myself. I don't want London to get them, and I don't know many people who do (I understand my friends may not be representative, but it's one of those issues that fails to be even the slightest bit contentious- someone'll say "God, I hope we don't get the Olympics", everyone will agree, and that's IT).

I know my dislike of sport (other than the mighty Yeovil Town, obviously) is fairly immense, but this isn't really my problem- I mean, I like the idea of the Olympics, the idea (even if it is just an idea) of the countries coming together to compete in athletics and stuff, even though I personally find the whole thing dull.

For a start, I don't think London could cope- I could see the arguments for Manchester (maybe I'm just a nimby after all).

But my main objection is the actual building of the stadium and village- they'll dig up Hackney Marshes, and the Downs. If that happens, I'm gonna go all Newbury on their ass and live up a tree or something- I'm not kidding. I know it's inevitably going to be ruined one day, but I'm not in a hurry to see that happen to my favourite part of London (which also has a lot of fond dog memories for me).Sometimes the only thing that keeps me sane is knowing that within fifteen minutes' walk of my house there's a place where you can almost forget you're in a city.

So... here's to Paris!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:01 / 06.07.05
Oh God... only us and Paris left now...

Come on, mes amis...
 
 
Sax
10:39 / 06.07.05
Minutes to go...
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
10:49 / 06.07.05
S**t!
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
10:53 / 06.07.05
I just hope Bliar's gone by the time it happens. The smug bastard's got a checklist of Prime Ministerial experiences and he's almost got a full house.

Oh, and leave Hackney alone. It's ours, not yours! (e.g. Clissold Sports Centre -- nuff said.)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:53 / 06.07.05
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

Shitshitshitshitshit...

Anyone know when they're likely to start building work? I'm serious about the tree camp thing.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
10:56 / 06.07.05
S'OK Stoatie. Hackney won't let it happen. You are not alone.
 
 
Loomis
10:59 / 06.07.05
They were already building stuff around Stratford over the last year or two weren't they?

I think this is a very bad idea. London is already at maximum capacity. Where fo they think they're going to fit all the extra people, and how on earth are they going to get to events? Good luck fitting an extra million people a day onto the tube. Not to mention the billions it will cost.

Big cities like London, Paris and New York are all mad ideas to host events of this size. Medium size cities with space to deal with the influx of people and which would benefit from new infrastucture are better suited.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:01 / 06.07.05
Fortunately I know a bunch of direct action treehugger types who I'm sure will be up for helping out.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:03 / 06.07.05
So... does anyone actually think this is a good thing?

Don't worry- I probably won't hurt you...
 
 
Yay Paul
11:03 / 06.07.05
There goes the neighbourhood... Feck

The optimistic side of me says "oh they might actually fix the transport problem"...
The rest of me just cries...
 
 
Jack Vincennes
11:09 / 06.07.05
Here's the BBC story...

I'm also not mad on the idea of transport around then, particularly as last Monday the southern lines were brought to their knees by a Coldplay gig.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
11:12 / 06.07.05
Hmm. Although all the objections above *are* fair and justified, I risk Stoatie's wrath by saying a London Olympics *does* excite me.

As a sports fan, the idea of being able to see Olympic events, which for a UK-based person is probably a once in lifetime opportunity, is pretty thrilling.

*If* (and in this I agree with everyone above) the organisers can actually build and run the thing well. Which I'm dubious about.

On an alternative viewpoint, local news has been featuring the Olympic bid heavily, as the sailing events will be taking place on the South-west coast. Locals in those regions seem to be pretty excited at the cash/tourism boost to areas which are pretty poor/could well do with the trade.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
11:47 / 06.07.05
London's entire transport infrastructure seems to fall apart if the weather is a bit nice, so I dread to think what it's going to be like during the Olympics. I think there's more chance of that supercontext shit happening in 2012 than London actually being capable of successfully hosting the Olympics.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
12:07 / 06.07.05
The "inspiring kids to do sport" thing is good. Shame it will probably only last a generation. The amount of dodgy money that's going to be made is sad/maddening!
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
12:41 / 06.07.05
But my main objection is the actual building of the stadium and village- they'll dig up Hackney Marshes, and the Downs.

Is this going to happen, Stoatie? My (generally well informed) neighbour seems to think not, that London Fields might change (shame), but that's about it. Hmmm.... I feel some research coming on...
 
 
grant
14:28 / 06.07.05
Why wouldn't they just emulate the airports and build somewhere out of town?

Oh dear, I found this on the Daily Scotsman:
They include Wembley Stadium (football), the Dome (gymnastics), and Horse Guards Parade (beach volleyball).


And here's a map and another -- it all looks sort of central. I mean, not Central, but nearer than I'd expect.


And, on the "financial burden" tip, I bet this Forbes writer is just a bitter New Yorker.

NEW YORK - Hip, hip, hooray. The good taxpayers of Britain have won the right to pick up the bill for the 2012 summer Olympic Games to be held in London. Lucky them.

Their political leaders, on the other hand, can feel pretty good about it. Not least, they will likely be out of office by the time the bills fall due to be paid. In the meantime, they can bask in the glory of their victory.

For that is mostly what winning the Olympics means these days: a boost in the approval ratings for incumbent politicians and a jolly good stirring of the pot of national pride.

 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
14:55 / 06.07.05
The good taxpayers of Britain have won the right to pick up the bill for the 2012 summer Olympic Games

Excuse me for being ignorant about such fiscal considerations, but is this how it works?

Is hosting the Olympics similar to hosting Eurovision -- I'm thinking how specifically about the rumours of Ireland putting up bad songs on purpose because they were sick of winning and footing the bill. Of course, I know the selection of host country / city is different for the Olympics, but will there come a day when nobody wants to host "the games"?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
14:58 / 06.07.05
This is really depressing news. Quite apart from anything else, I really didn't want Mr Tony to get one over on Johnny Frenchman at the moment.

Looking at the map of the proposed Olympic Park in The Standard though, Stoat, it seems like Hackney Marsh isn't going to featuree in the development proper. Then again, people will have to park their cars somewhere I suppose...
 
 
Alex's Grandma
15:07 / 06.07.05
Paranoid;

From today's Evening Standard

A total of £3.6 billion will be spent on the games, with an average London household paying up to £240 extra in council tax over 12 years in council tax.

This from pretty much the same Blue Skies thinkers that brought us the Scottish parliament, and will soon be introducing the ID card system.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:24 / 06.07.05
The key venues would all be located in a 500-acre Olympic precinct to be set in 1,500 acres of parkland stretching from Hackney Marshes to the River Thames.

Doesn't sound good to me.
 
 
paranoidwriter waves hello
15:41 / 06.07.05
S**t, s**t, and double-s**t. Time to move out of London?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:41 / 06.07.05
London's entire transport infrastructure seems to fall apart if the weather is a bit nice

We're doomed, there's no way London's public transport system can handle this and there's no way there's going to be enough space for visitors to stay and jesus Wembley to East London very possibly via Kings Cross. Now there's a station that's already overloaded- what are they going to do on day 3 when there's a security alert? I know it's in 2012 but I suggest everytime you start a new job for the next 7 years you book that period of time off. I have enough problem with confused tourists already, I don't actually want to stand in the middle of a tube station screaming "get out of my fucking city."
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:48 / 06.07.05
My dream of moving to Reykjavik is seeming more and more like a plan than a dream.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:51 / 06.07.05
Oh, and "not very Red anymore" Ken was just on the radio going on about the council tax rise being about 38p a week...

"and you can't even get a Walnut Whip for 38p these days".

Yes, but nobody's replacing my favourite parkland with Walnut Whips and then billing me for the privilege.

(And I think you can, anyway, if you buy in bulk).
 
 
Yay Paul
15:52 / 06.07.05
I suggest everytime you start a new job for the next 7 years you book that period of time off

I'm with you there...

I have enough problem with confused tourists already, I don't actually want to stand in the middle of a tube station screaming "get out of my fucking city."

...and there!

So anyone fancy joining me on an extended holiday somewhere, somewhere quiet, without tourists, perhaps involving some mountains, pottery and a very long wall?
 
 
Yay Paul
15:56 / 06.07.05
Oh thought i'd add this qoute from a convo on msn earlier;

Them: So basically everyone is happy but the ones who live in London?
Me: So basically everyone is happy but the ones it actually affects.... YES!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:02 / 06.07.05
I'm actually kind of toying with the idea of doing a tour of the "losing" four cities while the whole sorry mess is going on.

But man, are those Russians hardcore or what? God, we tried not to get it but became overconfident and didn't put the effort in. They got some Chechen guy WHO'S IN HIDING to break cover and threaten to blow it up if Moscow got it. Damn, they're good.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:09 / 06.07.05
Well who thought they'd be stupid enough to give it to us with the whole Wembley fiasco? Never trust someone involved with a sports program to make realistic decisions.
 
 
Loomis
16:11 / 06.07.05
I suggest everytime you start a new job for the next 7 years you book that period of time off.

You won't need to - it'll be done for you by your boss. During the Sydney Olympics a friend of mine who worked in the city had his 9-5 hours forcibly changed to start and finish a couple of hours earlier so that there would be more room on the train for tourists. The govt had requested this from several major corporations.

Not to mention that my university term ended a week or two early and all students in uni accomodation were forced to leave so that it could be rented out for that month. Similar things happened to numerous people in rented accomodation so that tehir landlords could make a packet in one month then get new tennants afterwards.

And yes the taxpayers paid for it all and now we have huge stadiums that will never be filled again, an Olympic village that cannot be used for anything, the list goes on.

During the years of building and planning the press was full of stories of cock-ups and wastes of money and there was pubilc outcry aplenty. Then when the games actually arrived we were told how good we all were for doing such a great job and all of a sudden criticism ceased because we had a nice opening ceremony. Now everyone who was initially critical seems to have forgotten all the blunders and the rogerings.

Give them bread and the olympics. How true.

I don't know if Sydney ended up in debt but I'm fairly sure that it's extremely rare for any Olympics to make a profit. The idea is that the infrastructure and tourism boost will pay itself off eventually, but that depends how much you spent and how much you stand to gain. After last year's effort Greece is so deep in the hole it's not funny.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:12 / 06.07.05
Hopefully less people will die building the fucking thing than did in Athens too...
 
 
Olulabelle
22:17 / 06.07.05
I'm glad, (please don't hit me) but then I don't live in London. I can see how it's frustrating if you do.

However, my advice is to aproach it in a mercenary fashion. If you aren't interested and plan on leaving the city whilst it's on, you're fairly guaranteed to get an obscene amount of cash for the rent of your flat/house/cardboard box.

For the record, I'm glad because my son is now utterly convinced he's going to be an Olympic archer in the games which can in no way be a bad thing. There are lots of overweight children in this country who could do with a good run-around (I'm being flippant but it's a serious point) and regardless of the government's motives for wanting the Olympics, the fact of the matter is that now there will be money thrown at sport because no country wants to host the games and do horribly. Sport in this country is appallingly underfunded and if having the Olympics means the government starts to care about it, then so be it.

I'm glad because we've got absolutely no sense of national pride (to the point of being ashamed to be British) and its about time that changed, and because, ever the eternal optimist, I really think that regeneration could benefit London.

Having worked in the planning department of local council I know that for the most part the planners really do care about sustainability and regeneration and the local economy. People think planners are simpletons, local government idiots, but they're not. They're people who get paid very little money and still do the job because they really care about what they are doing.

And, quite apart from anything else I have a friend who lives in Sydney and she says the city has totally changed since the Olympics. I realise that 'my friend says' is not a substantial argument, but sometimes hosting the Olympics is a good thing for a city. It very well could be for London.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:11 / 06.07.05
Sport in this country is appallingly underfunded and if having the Olympics means the government starts to care about it, then so be it.

But all that money is going to be poured into the Olympics not children who need to exercise. They're estimating that it's going to cost £2 billion, which frankly sounds like a vast underestimation considering that Wembley alone is eating up approximately £750 million. The government will care about its profile and possibly about making this a bearable experience for London but this isn't anything to do with grassroots sport. The likelihood of a government that has happily sold off school fields giving any money to more sporting budgets when they're building an Olympic village, stadium, upgrading existing facilities and desperately trying to work out how to best employ increased transportation is pretty low. I just can't be idealistic about this because I don't seriously think the country's going to get much out of it, except some small enthusiasm for sport in children... and not all children. I think if this had happened when I was at school I would have wanted to shoot myself in the head.

If you live in this city you know that the Circle line breaks down as soon as the temperature hits 26 degrees, there's no air conditioning on overcrowded tubes, the undercarriages of trains catch fire in the heat, tourists can't work out the signs in stations, bendy buses slow down the roads and are generally too crowded at 3pm in the afternoon in the winter, three tube lines and the Metropolitan line are shut down every weekend for necessary maintenance work, the line current on the Northern line goes down every fourth day in the rush hour. They can sort the tube out if they shut it down for a month. They can't do that, hence the doom but these problems happen on a normal day, so what's going to happen when there are thousands of foreign people in the city. My point is that these are problems that they can't fix unless the government shuts London down just before and during this event and that would leave it in debt... I mean £2 billion my arse. Just stick "cost of olympics" into google.

The best thing that come out of this is that The London Development Agency (LDA) estimates that the Games will leave a legacy of up to 9,000 new homes in the Olympic zone, more than half of them in the Olympic Village itself. And maybe someone will actually internationalise the tube a bit and install some foreign language signs.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
23:27 / 06.07.05
If you aren't interested in and plan on leaving the city while it's on, you're fairly guaranteed to get an obscene amount of cash for the rent of your flat/house/cardboard box

Well, yes. If you own it, or are lucky enough to have a landlord who's prepared to come to a reasonable deal about the sub-let.

In which case, sure, and there's plenty of time to start training the rats now, certainly.
 
 
Loomis
08:15 / 07.07.05
And, quite apart from anything else I have a friend who lives in Sydney and she says the city has totally changed since the Olympics. I realise that 'my friend says' is not a substantial argument, but sometimes hosting the Olympics is a good thing for a city.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with this sentiment. How was it good for Sydney? Putting in a train link to the airport that five years later still costs 4 times what a journey of comparable distance costs elsewhere on Sydney Rail?

I lived through all the years of planning and building for the SYdney Olympics and it was one nightmare after another. Budget went through the roof and I don't see any benefit to the city. Sydney was already a tourist mecca - it hardly would have gained any more international attention than it already had in that dept. Australia was already sports mad so no change there.

This reminds me of that Simpsons episode with the monorail. Spending a lot of money on something useless because "it sure put them on the map." And you know what? About 15 years back Sydney did build a fucking monorail. It's still there, costing money, travelling empty around the city. SYdney re-wrote the rulebook on bad urban planning. They're still building more motorways in a city that is choked with cars and needs urgent investment in rail.

The fact is that most of the stuff that gets built for the Olympics is useless afterwards. The Olympic city athlete accomodation isn't useable for normal living. The stadiums are too big. Massive aquatic centres and suchlike with massive parking lots aren't what London needs.

At least Sydney is more spread out so some of this stuff was built out where it can be ignored. But east London needs small scale development and housing, not massive athletic complexes and athlete accomodation that can't be re-used by Londoners looking for housing.
 
  

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