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Kanye West's Sophomore Year

 
  

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Jackie Susann
10:43 / 01.09.05
Just to clarify, the diss wasn't 'conscious', it was 'conscious diamonds shit'.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
16:22 / 01.09.05
How does the production compare to the Common album? I was fairly surprised in that instance how restrained and 'straight' the production was. Solid soulful beats, but nothing to phone Mum about. I mean obviously Kanye's gonna save the best for himself, but 'Be' felt like a side-step rather than a progression. Truth is, after initially digging it, it fell off my playlist fairly quickly. A couple of amazing tracks (the beginner, and the J Dilla produced one off the top of my head) but ultimately a little bit pedestrian.
So does West push the boat out a lot more on 'Late Registration' does it sound as genuinely weird as 'College Dropout'?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
16:35 / 01.09.05
I don't know about weird, but it certainly doesn't sound as good. I'm going to be investigating the returns/exchange policy of the shop I bought it from in the very near future. I'm not rich enough to buy mediocre albums, and there's plenty of other stuff I could be spending my money on.

(That's a "no", Illmatic, as to whether you should get it.)

Of the tracks I like, only 'Drive Slow' doesn't have something on it that annoys me - even 'Gone' has the line "the powers that be won't let me get my ideas out" - what, the same powers that be that put you on the cover of Time, Kanye? Pretty ineffectual conspiracy. You twit.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:16 / 01.09.05
Although, all credit to Kanye for this, it has to be said.
 
 
Jackie Susann
21:23 / 01.09.05
Okay to turn around and defend him though, Kanye has had problems with censorship, like the radio edit of 'All falls down' that cut the line 'and the white man gets paid off of all of that' which is kinda, like, the whole point of the verse. And I am thinking more and more that you hit the nail on the head when you said the real problem was that you knew dumb magazine writers were going to hype it as 'not like that other sexist rap' because I know we both put up with much more offensive, problematic and completely fucked up shit on albums we love.

I love Drive Slow, too. Paul Wall kills it! The beat sounds a lot like Devin the Dude's 'What' to me, but I dunno if that is just Kanye doing a real good imitation of signature swisha style (is Devin even a Swisha artist?)

When this thread inevitably winds down, can we turn it into a general post-Roc discussion? I wanna rave about Teairra Mari somewhere.
 
 
bio k9
03:48 / 03.09.05
Did anyone see the concert for hurricane relief?

"George Bush doesn't care about black people."

(Related Switchboard thread here.)
 
 
autopilot disengaged
07:02 / 03.09.05
man, i am loving kanye west as an individual right now. first his willingness to stand up for gay rights, now this...? boy's becoming a spokesman at the highest echelons of pop culture...

still can't whole-heartedly endorse his album (and yeah, i guess we're dealing with mixed messages and occasional foot-in-mouth episodes in his lyrics, too) but a loose cannon in that strata of media is priceless.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
00:52 / 05.09.05
first his willingness to stand up for gay rights, now this...?

Really? That's fucking class. Got a link?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
00:56 / 05.09.05
Look up...
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
03:13 / 05.09.05
Page is down. I think Yahoo's ops get pissed and delete random shit every second friday.
 
 
Cherielabombe
08:00 / 06.09.05
I'm enjoying it somewhat... but will I enjoy it as much as I enjoyed 'The College Dropout'? (IE, listen to it all the time for six months or so?) Je ne sais pas. I must say though, as an expat Chicagoan I nearly cried during 'Home.' Nearly.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:58 / 06.09.05
I like this album a lot more than a lot of people on this thread, though it does drop off into tedium in the middle. The first few tracks make you want to dance on the tube and then suddenly you're skipping through the next few because they're not up to the same standard. Despite that I want to keep the album as it's quite a common feeling to only like a few tracks on an album.

I still think it's better than the new Goldfrapp is going to be...
 
 
lentil
10:34 / 16.09.05
Did anybody see his performance of "Golddigger" on the MTV awards (shown on UK Channel 5 last Sunday)? Easily the best thing about the entire show. Intro'd by Alicia keys: "Even I tried to talk some sense to them, thirty minutes later see there's no convincing them", and then Kanye and Jamie Foxx rise up out of the centre of a circular stage on a little round platform, Jamie belting out an extended version of the intro. Kanye strides off and delivers an extremely assured performance - great spectacle - but then! At the "If you ain't no punk, holler WE WANT PRENUP!" moment, tickertape machines shower the audience with counterfeit dollar bills, which is immediately followed by a bevy of beauties taking the stage for a good ol' strut. As Crunchy said upthread, "did ye really have to compound the obnoxious class privilege with obnoxious sexist bullshit?". I had to laugh out loud and say "ah! Kanye! That's horrendous!", but it didn't stop me enjoying it immensely.

As an aside, I know "She ain't messing with no broke brothers" or whatever would have sounded incredibly lame, but I do wish he'd found a less awkward way of altering that line for the radio edit. I noticed that although the edited chorus was used on the show, the line about "she used to fuck with Usher" came through uncensored... maybe he'd intended to say "mess with Usher", but just got lost in the flow, baybee...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:31 / 16.09.05
Update on whether it's growing on me: um, a little. 'We Major' has, although I'm still annoyed by the way Kanye says "We major? We major!" - it's sort of over-intoned. What I like about is, I suppose, the Nas verse - the way he seems to have developed a tone of voice that says "No, I've never equalled that first album, but on the other hand, I do spend a lot of time with Kelis. With no clothes on."

I quite like 'Bring Me Down', but it's a bit too much of an inferior re-tread of 'Never Let Me Down'.

I still cannot get over the way you have a solo Common track followed by a track on which The Game says like three words. Wrong way round, Kanye! Shame too 'cos 'Crack Music' is a good beat, it could just do without that monologue at the end, and needs a guest verse.

I'd say this is an album that inspires very strong feelings in me both ways - 'Gone' will definitely be on my songs of the year list if I make one. But the other day, I was on the Tube with this album on 'random' and got two "broke, broke broke!" skits in a row. At that moment, had Kanye appeared in front of me wearing one of his Noel Edmunds jumpers, I think I might have punched his nose.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
18:02 / 01.02.06
I'd say this is an album that inspires very strong feelings in me both ways - 'Gone' will definitely be on my songs of the year list if I make one.
I made a special little dance I do to one of the lines (used only in the privacy of my house). When he says You a big L I put the L sign up to my forhead, and then I anin't talkin' 'bout Cool J the L comes down while I hug myself in a b boy stance from Cool J's earlier days. Still working on some of the Killer Cam stuff, the Knock Knock, who's there? stuff is pretty easy.
 
 
Cherielabombe
13:14 / 13.08.06
Is it just me, or does anyone else like "Gold Digger" even more now than when it first came out (and I liked it then too)? That song came out nearly a year ago and I think I actually hear it more now than when it was released. Go on, Kanye!
 
 
Jawsus-son Starship
12:28 / 02.07.07
13/08/07 is the release date of the new single, which is begining to be played on Radio 1, and is titled Stronger. It is good. Do we have a release date on a new album?

On the PS, he's playing on Zane Lowe's show on Radio 1 tommorow night, from 7pm GMT.
 
 
Lugue
12:57 / 02.07.07
He... sounds rather sucky, though, doesn't he? I mean, the track works well enough (I dig the later bit without the DF sample gone, just a synth wash). But... that chorus? And... "I'd do anything for a blonde dyke"? Bleurgh.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:19 / 02.07.07
Perhaps he has a dyke-identifying best friend.

Perhaps not.
 
 
Lugue
19:45 / 02.07.07
I'm not feeling optimistic.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:19 / 26.09.07
Kanye West might be the most frustrating individual working in popular music today. He also doesn't deserve a new thread until he drops the education analogy.

Graduation has moments where you really can hear something like genius - pretty much exclusively production genius, Kanye's ear for a good sound - like the ravey bits on 'Flashes of Light' (which arguably just bites the same effect on 'My Love', but hey). But his personality is so very, very grating these days - as exemplified by the fact that the album ends with two (decent to very good) tracks, one about Chicago and one about Jay-Z, that basically say "I used to love you and still do, so why don't you give me as much respect and attention as I feel I deserve?" He's so passive-aggressive and whiney, and I think the thing that really grates is the way doing this, and certain other things, make him more acceptable to a certain breed of critic than rappers who are simply aggressive (see also his ever-worsening attitude towards women, as I believe has been previously discussed).

And claiming to hate the papparazzi more than the Nazis is... silly, to put it mildly.
 
 
Janean Patience
07:06 / 27.09.07
I think the thing that really grates is the way doing this, and certain other things, make him more acceptable to a certain breed of critic than rappers who are simply aggressive.

I’m interested in exploring this annoyance that Kanye arouses because of his mainstream success and his image as the rapper who’s not like the rest. It’s a strange resentment he suffers; lauded by critics and despised by fans for what he’s not.

There have been middle-class non-gangsta rappers for years (Common, for one) and they’ve been relatively unsuccessful and easy to ignore. Kanye’s problem is his success. I believe that’s because of the music, not because of the way he’s perceived. All Fall Down, Jesus Walks, Slow Jamz, Gold Digger, Heard ‘Em Say, Good Life: these are great songs, offering something different lyrically and musically. I saw Pharrell last night praising Graduation to the skies. That’s respect worth having.

But Kanye also offers something different in terms of image. He’s non-threatening. He’s not as aggressive as previous rap superstars. While he’s all about asserting how much better he is than everybody else, those assertions don’t go to the streets. If Snoop Dogg is saying he’s better than you then it won’t be long before guns, violence, and sexual slurs against you and your women come into the picture. Unpleasant terms will be used, terms that offend liberal people and which I haven’t used here.

Is it really so wrong for audiences uncomfortable with all this, who like hip hop but don’t want to feel awkward when they’ve got friends round and Can U Control Yo Hoe comes on, to embrace Kanye? From their perspective, finally you’re getting the music without the unpleasant stuff. And Kanye is keeping it real. Coming on like a gangsta with a middle-class past was never going to work. Telling the truth about himself and his life is all a rapper is meant to do, and arguably Kanye is being more honest than 50 Cent nowadays given that the latter no longer lives the life in his lyrics.

Or is it racism, because Kayne comes from a background which is more recognisable to white audiences? Does that allow them to replace fear of the other with he’s just like us really? But weren’t 50’s tales of drug dealing and being shot presenting an image equally appealing to white audiences, even if a certain breed of critic was repulsed?
 
 
The Strobe
09:20 / 27.09.07
So I've been listening to Graduation a lot recently, and (by and large) really like it. It doesn't peak as hard as bits of Late Registration, but I find it a far more consistent album - I don't really skip any tracks on it. I also don't quite identify the passive-aggression that Petey does.

That said, there's a degree of inconsistency emerging in his persona - I mean, his constant reference to "dykes" in his songs versus his changing attitude towards (presumably male) homosexuality is kind of strange. And yeah, that Nazis/Paparazzis rhyme/analogy is just a) cheap and lazy and b) crude.

That said, Graduation is full of musical highs - Everything I Am, Good Life, The Glory, Flashing Lights. I also feel that - despite ropey lyrical content at points - he's definitely improving a lot as a rapper, even if that's a skill still not up to his production chops.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:29 / 27.09.07
JP, I'm not being funny, but how closely do you listen to the lyrical content of a) Kanye West's songs, and b) his "gangsta" contemporaries?
 
 
Janean Patience
13:09 / 27.09.07
Not a question I really know how to answer. Er... reasonably closely? I haven't got Graduation but I've got Kanye's previous albums. I also listen to Snoop, Nas, the Wu-Tang Clan, Dre, others, probably as closely. I'm not sure if that's information you want, but then I'm not sure what information you want. Are you saying Kanye's lyrical content is roughly equivalent to, say, Snoop's or 50 Cent's?
 
 
Jackie Susann
21:17 / 28.09.07
I dunno, isn't the problem with Kanye's arrogance that poor -> really rich (as per at least the public image of every other rapper) is a trajectory everyone loves, whereas Kanye's comfortably middle class -> really rich is a bit rubbish?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
01:57 / 29.09.07
Or could it be that being an insufferable nob-head is being an insufferable nob-head is being....
Plenty of artists ride/have ridden the fame roller-coaster without turning into a dickhead. I'm not sure it has to be about class necessarily.
 
 
Jackie Susann
03:16 / 29.09.07
Yeah but wasn't the question, why is Kanye being a knobhead so much more annoying than (i.e.) Snoop. Obviously it doesn't 'have' to be about class, but I reckon being brought up by academics and then spending three albums flogging the 'college = waste of time' theme (said albums getting progressively worse) has something to do with it.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:16 / 07.10.07
"One neck, two chains, one waist, two gats"

"I'll be gone 'til November I got packs to move"

"And all my people that's drug dealin just to get by, stack ya money till it gets sky high"
 
  

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