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Talking to the dead

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

05:57 / 04.07.05

I've been trying to figure out a way to contact a dead person. But as of yet, I can't figure out a good way to go about it. If anyone has done it with reasonable success, tell me about it so I can figure out how to proceed. I know it's all about what works for me, but I figure there are some methods that work pretty well for most people, and that the personal variations are on a smaller scale so I'll work those out when I've got a decent idea of how I'm going to start.

I've been thinking about going into a graveyard at night, you know, for the spooky ambience and the feeling of being surrounded by the dead already. So I've got a place, I've got an atmosphere, I just need a starting point. There are some pyscadelic drugs going around, are those condusive to contacting the dead? Should I attempt to summon the person by myself, or should I find an intermediary, like some aspect of death or a gate opener like Legba? Would it be easier just to try a shamanic trance and go hunt them down? Or some combination: summon the person to a specific astral place and go there to meet them?

I know that those are all basically the same thing, just coming from different directions. So which direction would you reccomend?

*

07:08 / 04.07.05

Depends "where" they "are" and why I need to talk to them. Usually if they're someone I'm close to I start by just talking, seeing if they happen to be within earshot. Holding a personal item can help with that. If not then I would try offerings and invitations, and if that fails, faring forth to where they are. I've never found that any special ritual trappings are needed particularly. If you're in good with Hermes or another psychopomp, you might talk to them about it. I think Legba also has this function but I don't know enough about vodoun to really say.

08:10 / 04.07.05

With Vodou, Ghede is the man to speak to for matters concerning the dead. To speak to Ghede, you should first speak to Legba as opener of the gate. However, if you're going to go this route, you really need to know them a bit before you ask them for stuff. I wouldn't like to wander into the boneyard, which is Ghede's patch, and start doing stuff without His sanction and without giving Him the proper respect and interacting with Him in the appropriate way. There's etiquette for these things that needs to be followed. So it becomes a question of whether you want to practice Vodou, or whether you just want to communicate with one deceased person.

If the latter, I would think about going for a Spiritist approach. If the person was a family member or a close friend who you already have a strong connection with, then you could construct a small altar to them. Put down a white altar cloth with a white candle and glass of fresh water. Keep their personal effects on the altar. Make offerings of food and drink to them that they enjoyed during life. Chat to them on a regular basis. It may take a bit of time and effort to get them on the other end. Think of the altar as a radio receiver, and the work that you do with it (lighting candles, making offerings, talking, interacting) is what makes the signal stronger. Through working with the altar you create a point of access through which you can contact that person and they can contact you.

This process can be aided greatly by having a psychopomp or underworld God or Goddess involved in the work, but to do that, you should really have a good relationship with them in place first, or else start building one as a prelude to contacting the dead. Otherwise, it's a bit like knocking on a stranger's door and asking them to show you around their house. You might catch them in a good mood, but don't be too surprised if you get a frosty reception...

10:41 / 04.07.05

I like to stay open, and I generally find that if it's important, generally THEY will talk to ME.

12:15 / 04.07.05

Would it be easier just to try a shamanic trance and go hunt them down?

Yes, that's a technique that has a chance of working depending on your skill and character. But I wouldn't do it if I were you. Not until you can honestly rewrite that sentence without the words "easier" or "just."

The way I'd do it is to kill off a part of myself. Potentially something I wanted rid of anyway, but something that I'm enough invested in that it'll really cost me, enough that it'll hurt and leave me healing for a time. By killing myself in this manner I'm engaging in the act of death, making a part of myself the same as the person I'm trying to contact.

I've never done it and I thought of the idea literally a minute before posting, but every bone in my body knows it would work if you were really invested enough to wear the mantle of death yourself.

What specifically do you want here?

12:19 / 04.07.05

Fairly sure I could do it for someone else with some magickally adapted NLP too. And a part of that would entail a rigourous examination of what you wanted to achieve. There's a reason for doing this, right?

17:47 / 04.07.05

The way I'd do it is to kill off a part of myself

Purely out of curiosity, how d'you mean ? I'm guessing it wouldn't be a question of cutting off a finger or something - if it was a part of your personality, say, how would go about a) attacking it ( presumably you'd have to isolate it in the first place somehow, ) b) establishing that you'd really killed it, and c) ensuring that it stayed dead ?

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

19:07 / 04.07.05

If you're in good with Hermes or another psychopomp, you might talk to them about it.

I'm in good with Hermes. Certainly more so than Legba, Ghede or any other Loa. Actually, I'm pretty surprised it hadn't occured to me to ask him about it. It makes pretty good sense.

Unconditional Love

00:11 / 05.07.05

id suggest in answer to seths idea, it could be done by establishing a set of cues or triggers to certain characteristics held by one of the many incarnate personas that i seem to develope for differing situations.

ie, find out the building blocks, external, to begin with attached to that persona. these may be physical objects, for example, notes from a study course for a particular area, a selection of books, posters, jewellery, clothing, music, dvds, i have found at some point or another alot of external cues go into developing a fiction suit/ persona, a starting point to termination of that persona is to sacrafice the associated cues, working from the outside in.

the next step that of internal deforestation requires an understanding of why that particular persona was developed in the first place, and also, why is it still kicking about? what attachments do i have to it, is it a functional/pleasureable experience? if so, why am i doing this. the internal process requires alot more questioning as to the validity of the process undertaken. the act of treating the mind as many personas also requires to a certain degree a fragmentation of the idea of self, which some people will find uncomfortable.i used to consider it as a form of psychic surgery, cutting away what was cancerous to the personality, but became disenchanted with the idea as it tied into health and wellness, rather than say natural process, impermanance.

another purrocess to understand is which persona is acting/creating as the agent of destruction, and how it relates to that which is being destroyed, ie how is the reflected work represented in the current persona,and why?

*

05:03 / 05.07.05

c) presumably it doesn't need to stay dead. Death isn't necessarily permanent-- actually, it's identifiably not permanent here because the goal is to speak to someone who's dead, right?

That said, while I'm sure it would work, it seems-- unnecessarily convoluted to me. One can experience death in many ways, such as death and rebirth situations encountered while faring forth. But when I've done the death and rebirth thing before it's always been to my own benefit for various self-improvement ventures, not to talk to the differently-coroporeal. I lean towards simple and direct, where possible; fewer variable factors to manage.

With respect, Seth, because I think it's a worthy idea.

Unconditional Love

16:37 / 05.07.05

perhaps convoluted.
the basic premise is sympathetic magic, that which is identified with passionately is that which i become.deconstructed.

the many selves, pantheism, animism.
the singular self, monotheism, any system that reduces all manifestation to one. psychiatry and psychotherapy still percieve more than one incarnate self as disorder, imo because they are rooted in the premise of a judaeo christian conception of consciousness.god is one, i am one.

so i must have, one gender specific sexuality, one name, a singular identifiable character that is considered me, etc etc the list goes on, a very narrow conception of human consciousness, and of course were all one species as well.....

death becomes one thing that lives and then dies,as far as i am concerned that has no basis in the reality i experience daily. the idea of events that relate to me in the singular is fraudulent, inconsistency.