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Underground > Comic Books >

X-Men 172: "Bizarre Love Triangle", part two of four

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ONLY NICE THINGS

13:53 / 03.07.05

You know, I'm really starting to like the sheer silliness of this - the overblown soap-opera nonsense, the incredibly obvious twists... it's all good.

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To nobody's surprise, Foxx has turned out to be Mystique. Even better, the issue ends with the same cliffhanger as before, but this time Mystique is "dressed" as Rogue rather than Foxx.

Also, the dialogue is on the up - it seems to be hitting stride a bit, with the "intervention" by Gambit's class and Nightcrawler both clicking nicely. This remains not a great book, but Milligan seems to be getting closer. Unfortunately, the art remains phenomenally sucky. It actually redefines suck. The final page, where MystRogue's breasts start about six inches behind her collarbone and boulder out beneath the face of Bennie from L.A. Law in drag. LaRocca never impressedme, but he seems to be breaking new grounds of badness at present. Is he working on too many books or something?

14:56 / 03.07.05

From what I understand, Milligan has already been bounced from this comic - which is unfortunate. However hopefully it will enable him to work on other comics projects. A Milligan comic is usually worth a punt...

Pooky Is Just My Pornstar Name

15:01 / 03.07.05

It is a fun read in that guilty pleasures soap opera way, isn't it? It's too bad that Larroca's art is so bad at the moment. Ordinarily, he can do some decent work. However, he may be stretched too thin now, what with working on Spider-Man: House of M too.

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:39 / 03.07.05

I'd appreciate it if somebody could point me to this mythical good Larocca art, because I keep hearing about it but I've never seen it. I have however seen him commit all kinds of crimes against aesthetics in Milligan's X-Men run alone; Haus, I see your shit 'sexy' pouting MystRogue and raise you the full-page spread of Foxx last issue. This is supposed to be the big reveal, when we finally get to see this provocatively sexy teenager who's got everyone talking... And she looks like a lobotomised dwarf.

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:47 / 03.07.05

Anyway, I've said this before but what I like about this is how much contempt I suspect Milligan has for every character except Emma Frost and possibly Logan. And I share his contempt, so that works out well. Alex is an asshole. Bobby is an imbecile. Lorna is certifiably insane. Rogue whines. Gambit I would normally consider an imbecilic asshole but compared to the rest of these losers, Milligan makes him seem almost likeable.

16:06 / 03.07.05

Well, Milligan's no stranger to soap opera writing, innit?
I don't know that I see an absolute loathing for any of the characters, however, but a very strident weakness. It also reads as editorially shackled and reinterpreted, which doesn't help anything. Ever. And don't give me that 'X would be good if they'd had a decent editor' because the writer ought to be doing that themselves or not, by choice of what they want. The editor should facilitate, not impose aesthetics (at which point they are not editor, but co-author - the Ann Nocenti/Paul Neary approach, though they both were called editors, anyway).
Shutting up on that and getting back to 'X-Men': Larocca's writ-and-drawn 'Fantastic Four' had better art than when Claremont wrote, but somehow, I can't see that being the element that changed things... though, Kia Asamiya is splendid on his own terms and kinda shoddy when trying to match Austen's pace and character designs, so maybe there is something to it.
This recent X-Men stuff is pretty bad, though. I thought, maybe, there was some subtle irony with the Foxx appearance, like the gal from X-Force with skin blotches we never saw and at least one character didn't realize.
This seems to be a very slow marinating pace, though, and while I enjoy that, I don't think a lot of other people are. Maybe he just needs a big 'splodey deathkill major-changes issue every so often, y'know, change up the pace.

Pooky Is Just My Pornstar Name

16:17 / 03.07.05

To see Larroca's art back when he was actually good, go here:

Covers & Interiors.

and

X-Treme X-Men Covers.

16:55 / 03.07.05

Alright, this is mildly off-topic, but: Third or fourth issue of 'X-Treme X-Men' had a cover with Tessa, back to us, positioned to accentuate her ass, as I recall. Now, this would have been roughly around the same time as the 'New X-Men' Emma cover which got some people really riled... but I never heard anything about the 'X-Treme' cover. Were there too many other things to complain about with the title, without getting into cover images? Or am I missing something? I'm not on a 'these cover images are sick and should be stopped' trip - I think the White Queen cover is better but that's because it has a forwardness and weight to it, while the Tessa cover is more or less just quick cheesecake - but where's the sense in getting bent out of shape over one, if not the other, if, as many X-fans are likely to, you're buying both?
Back on proper track: I dislike the covers of this book more than anything inside them. Generic movie-poster deals that - while somewhat distinctive - give no impetus to a spontaneous purchase and just seem flat and uninvolving.

Regrettable Juvenilia

17:24 / 03.07.05

Whose idea of good art is this or this?

And Daytripper, I think there was little comment about the shit cheescake cover to an issue of 'X-Treme' because few people here were buying 'X-Treme', because they knew quite rightly that any comic called 'X-Treme X-Men' would be uterly worthless wank devoid of any merit, with shit cheesecake covers.

18:00 / 03.07.05

I didn't mean just here - nowhere online, in shop(s), or elsewhere did I note a comment. To be fair, I wasn't paying attention to 'X-Treme' much, so it wouldn't be that hard to miss it.
The main difference, to my mind, is that the Quitely cover seems very comfortable and direct and it makes me want to laugh because you know Emma's pissing off just as many X-characters with that outfit as she is X-fans, whereas the Larocca cover... the first thing to come to mind is something along the lines of 'hope she oiled before getting into that.'
And I don't think you can say the title was entirely devoid of merit, after all, Claremont - so I hear - accomplished his lifelong goal of inventing a woman whose mutant power is to do/be anything required by plot. Imagine a book scripted entirely of characters with that ability! It'd be the soap opera angst-and-family-achievement Impossible Man comic of my dreams! Just because Claremont and Larocca couldn't do anything with it doesn't make the idea worthless. That's the X-book I'd like to see Milligan writing.
Anyhow, is Miligan off the book post-Infinite Invasion M Wars? He's obviously going somewhere with the book and I would like to see him get there rather than be replaced by, oh, a returned Austen.

Pooky Is Just My Pornstar Name

19:42 / 03.07.05

Whose idea of good art is this or this?

Admittedly, that is not Larroca's finest work. However, I think it's unfair to judge him by a few misses. His other work was alright. However, that doesn't excuse the fact that he is turning in shite work on X-Men right now.

And Daytripper, I think there was little comment about the shit cheescake cover to an issue of 'X-Treme' because few people here were buying 'X-Treme', because they knew quite rightly that any comic called 'X-Treme X-Men' would be uterly worthless wank devoid of any merit, with shit cheesecake covers.

Just a couple of comments on this:

1) Agree that X-treme X-Men was poo. I think it's a crying shame that someone as talented as Milligan gets booted from the X-Men while crappy, long past his prime, Claremont continues to get work.

2) Cheesecake/movie style covers are what they are - a necessary evil. Covers are meant to draw the fanboy/fatbeards in, and if these types of covers are what appeal to the masses, then so be it. First and foremost, Marvel is a business, out to make filthy lucre, and if these types of covers bring home the bacon, then c'est la vie.

3) Claremont and cheesecake obviously sell. Though they may not appeal to you or me, or any other barbeloid, they do appeal to a certain segment of the comic book buying population, hence their continued presence within the industry. While lurking on Newsarama a while back, I read a comment from someone that wrote that CC is his favorite writer. That shocked the hell out of me; however, I just shrugged it off and attributed it to: a) the youth of the poster (when I was 14, 15, yrs old, I though CC was The Shit too, now I just think he's shit), b) different strokes for different folks; personal tastes are obviously subjective, and one man's poison is another man's meat.

19:57 / 03.07.05

I'm not convinced that regular loyal comic readers (fatbeards, fans or whatever you deem to call them) are/have been, or even should be the target of the covers. These loyal fans have kept coming back no matter how crap their regular comics have become.

Regrettable Juvenilia

20:04 / 03.07.05

Admittedly, that is not Larroca's finest work. However, I think it's unfair to judge him by a few misses. His other work was alright.

Okay, so... If the work you provided a link to when I asked for someone to point me to good Larocca art is not in fact good Larocca art, then could somebody point me to some good Larocca art? Is none of it available online, perhaps? Is it a secret hidden treasure?

Cheesecake/movie style covers are what they are - a necessary evil. Covers are meant to draw the fanboy/fatbeards in, and if these types of covers are what appeal to the masses, then so be it. First and foremost, Marvel is a business, out to make filthy lucre, and if these types of covers bring home the bacon, then c'est la vie.

Nonsense. Firstly "fanboy/fatbeards" are not "the masses" - quite the opposite. Ridiculous cheesecake covers are not a necessity to ensure that comics sell: they are one of the things that have helped comics retreat into a hermeneutically-sealed ghetto, by alienating vast swathes of the population eg all women ever.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

21:51 / 03.07.05

Am I the only person who thinks Milligan's shooting for a full blown psychosexual David Lynch vibe with this? Because I fucking love it.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

22:04 / 03.07.05

they are one of the things that have helped comics retreat into a hermeneutically-sealed ghetto, by alienating vast swathes of the population eg all women ever.

If that's true then I don't think women have ever been a major force in buying genre comics ever - look at the golden age, which used female sexuality on a monthly basis and sold in the millions (there's a very odd AOL page out there somewhere with hundreds of old doll man/wonder woman/JSA type covers featuring cheesecake bondage). FHM and Loaded still sell very well, certainly.

I think what's kind of sad about it (from a mainstream male perspective) is that the women aren't real people, and the proportions they possess are so horrible. I'd kill to see someone draw Rouge with normal tits for once, and the cast of the very underaged New X-Men (No Not THAT New X-Men) smuggling basketballs and be possessed of wasp waists. It's very ugly, very unappealing and entirely anti-sexy. SL is a prime example, and his women (and men) always look absolutely shitty compaired to a Quitely or a Jimmenez or a Davis.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

22:11 / 03.07.05

The main difference, to my mind, is that the Quitely cover seems very comfortable and direct and it makes me want to laugh because you know Emma's pissing off just as many X-characters with that outfit as she is X-fans

You're kidding me right? The one with the girl who only sort of looked like Emma if you squinted because he'd somehow decided to draw her with an oriental face and tits three cup sizes too big? That was bad, man.

#114 aside, none of Frank's early NXM covers were much cop (IMO).

Essential Dazzler

22:52 / 03.07.05

I've argued Quitely's corner many times amongst friends, but the cover to #116 is just awful. Anyone bitching about it being too sexual or whatever is missing the point that it is clearly not a drawing of Emma Fost.

00:06 / 04.07.05

I'm quite enjoying the 'this took about half an hour to put together' thing they ( hopefully ) have going on with this series, though. Like Tennesse Williams meets the Mattel toyline.

Although I fear that whoever it is that's drawing the pictures may be after a 'GGA' mention in the relevant circles.

Then again, let's face it ( and I think about this kind of thing almost all of the time, so I'd consider myself an authority, damnit, ) has Mystique ever looked 'hotter' ?

Has she ? Deep down, honestly, could you seriously say that ? Any of you ?

I'm not trying to say that Peter Milligan is a personal friend of mine ( I dare say he isn't, after what happened that time - sorry Pete, if you're reading this, I didn't mean that to happen, ) but I'd like to think of him having at least enough time on the property to kill the French guy off anyway, or whatever he is.

Pooky Is Just My Pornstar Name

00:30 / 04.07.05

Okay, so... If the work you provided a link to when I asked for someone to point me to good Larocca art is not in fact good Larocca art, then could somebody point me to some good Larocca art? Is none of it available online, perhaps? Is it a secret hidden treasure?

Do you honestly believe that all the artwork from both aforementioned links suck? If so, then I think you're being rather harsh. No, not every piece of work was brilliant; but some of it was decent, in my opinion. You seem to have already made up your mind about SL's art, and, it would appear, have decided not to like it. I doubt posting anymore links - which you could easily look for yourself via google - will change your mind.

Nonsense. Firstly "fanboy/fatbeards" are not "the masses" - quite the opposite. Ridiculous cheesecake covers are not a necessity to ensure that comics sell: they are one of the things that have helped comics retreat into a hermeneutically-sealed ghetto, by alienating vast swathes of the population eg all women ever.

Point conceded on the fanboys/fatbeards and masses comment. I was posting in haste due to having to run off to the grocers before they closed, thus I really didn't think things through before posting. However, as regards your comment on cheesecake covers...I disagree somewhat. I don't disagree that the cheesecake alienates potential women readers; however, women have not and never have been the main demographic for comics in North America. Young men and teenage boys have and continue to occupy this niche. Thus, if males are the main demographic, and since the publishers know that males comprise a large part of their customer base, then it follows that they will publish art and stories that appeal to males. Hence the cheesecake is a necessary evil, because they do appeal to the main audience. Now, are cheesecake covers an absolutely necessity to sell comics? No, of course not. However, they do boost sales. Why else would Marvel, DC, and the rest publish the T&A covers if they didn't think they could sell more comics that way?

00:57 / 04.07.05

Didn't say it was a good representation of Emma Frost, just a good cover. It fit the tone of the book, in its way, as did all of the Quitely covers, far as I'm concerned. Different facets. Those covers were very much New X-Men.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

01:30 / 04.07.05

1) Agree that X-treme X-Men was poo. I think it's a crying shame that someone as talented as Milligan gets booted from the X-Men while crappy, long past his prime, Claremont continues to get work.

I don't agree with this. Oh, I agree that Claremont is LONG past his expiration date, and that Milligan is talented (although if I had no experience with his work, I wouldn't much care for him based on his X-Men stuff. But, I think that Claremont should be allowed to have an X-Men book of some sort as long a he wants to write it, out of consideration for the fact that he built the money machine that is the X-Men. We don't have to BUY it, of course, but I think as long as he can write a profitable series, he should be allowed to.

Regrettable Juvenilia

07:22 / 04.07.05

Do you honestly believe that all the artwork from both aforementioned links suck? If so, then I think you're being rather harsh. No, not every piece of work was brilliant; but some of it was decent, in my opinion. You seem to have already made up your mind about SL's art, and, it would appear, have decided not to like it. I doubt posting anymore links - which you could easily look for yourself via google - will change your mind.

No. I've made up my mind on the basis of the art that I've seen. I asked if anybody who thinks Larocca can be good could link to evidence of that. I don't see any evidence here. If you think Larocca can be good, could you offer an example of this? You can pick just one piece of art if you like.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

07:30 / 04.07.05

This has charm, but it's still too much like a bunch of RAAARGH He-Man action figures

07:54 / 04.07.05

Well, I gave up on the series with the last issue, I really wanted to like it, I really wanted Milligan to shine on it - hell it had Alex Summers in it, and I've always had a soft spot for the character - but the art wasn't making an average read any easier, and I think ultimately that LaRocca confused a lot of the story telling to the point that I could not get into any of it. Sorry Mr Milligan.

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:00 / 04.07.05

I think I didn't mind LaRocca's art on Excalibur about four years ago, but on reflection I'm not sure whether a) that was actually LaRocca and b) I was sober.

06:43 / 05.07.05

So 'lith is still reading this?

Happy to hear Milligan's been bounced (source?) because now he can write something better. Between the Toxins, the Wolverine/Punisher minis, and this I'm wondering if he wants to do any "good" comics.

Pooky Is Just My Pornstar Name

02:43 / 06.07.05

No. I've made up my mind on the basis of the art that I've seen. I asked if anybody who thinks Larocca can be good could link to evidence of that. I don't see any evidence here. If you think Larocca can be good, could you offer an example of this? You can pick just one piece of art if you like.

My pick of an example of good Larroca art is the Emma Frost cover of X-treme X-Men, seen here. Here's the same pic again, in larger format albeit flipped. I believe Larroca has captured the essence of Emma in that cover. She's sexy, dangerous, arrogrant. Her stance of one arm behind her back while she casually removes a glove from her hand with her mouth, all the while peering out at the viewer with amused disdain is quintessential rich bitch dommy Emma goodness. This pic in my opinion proves that Larroca is capable of good art. Not only has he captured an essential element of the character, he's done it in a cracking sexy saleable cover. Is it cheesecakey? Absolutely. But as Emma herself would say, "It's fabulous cheesecake, darling." If you don't like it, then fine, fair enough, you don't like Larroca's art and that's your prerogative.

16:46 / 27.07.05

the cover to the next (or is it last?) part of this story - I like the concept of this cover:

All the X-Folk are mighty sore at Mystique, doncha know.

15:32 / 22.11.05

Oh, he didn't...

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...if you go to the newest LITG, and scroll past Johnston's tedious self-promotion.

Might get back on the wagon. Even though I really dislike Larroca. This is IMPORTANT shit.

16:00 / 22.11.05

Oh HELL YEAH!

I actually want to read Milligan's stories now.

16:13 / 22.11.05

Woooooo!

Matthew Fluxington

16:33 / 22.11.05

Doop!!!

I love you, Peter Milligan!

19:58 / 22.11.05

This is pretty much the only thing that could have me reading/caring about Milligan's X-Men again. Nice!

Matthew Fluxington

00:12 / 23.11.05

He's going to do an Apocalypse storyline too! It should be pretty nuts.

Matthew Fluxington

00:13 / 23.11.05

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Doop cover falls right in the middle of the Apocalypse storyline! I think Doop is going to be one of the Horsemen.

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