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Thelema without Crowley?

 
 
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13:16 / 16.06.05
93,

Hello all. By way of an introduction thought I'd post a polemic piece that I've been knocking about for a while.
Your thoughts?
I am always interested in feedback and Barbelith seems an unusually erudite community to interact with and participate in.
Hope this sparks some thoughts and discussion.

Will
Love

Peter Grey

Thelema without Crowley?

If you meet the Buddha, kill him – Zen Buddhism

One hundred and one years have passed since the reception of The Book of the Law by Crowley in Cairo.
Taking that arbitrary time as a catalyst for action, I am going to ask what for many Thelemites is an uncomfortable question for others, a bald heresy.

Can there be Thelema without Crowley?

What concerns me is the animating spark of Thelema, not the personalities and period features. It seems that the focus is increasingly on the historical aspects and not on the living tradition.

Thelema is a call to arms for freedom and ecstatic illumination.
Thelema is the realisation and perfection of human potential in the here and NOW.
This is magick.

So can we separate the man from the message? Or is Thelema a fan club for another dead rock star, the radicalism lost in cash-ins, re-releases and empty idol worship?


The flame that burns at the core of every Star

Before we consign dear Uncle Al to the qlippoth of history we must discover what Thelema actually is.

You are of course free to disagree with my position and conclusions.

As we all know, Thelema means Will in Greek.

In my understanding, Thelema is a self-reliant philosophy based on the discovery and active doing of one’s Will.

I like to keep things that simple.

Others may approach Thelema as a religion, taking The Book of the Law as a message to humanity proclaiming the dawning of a New Age, with Crowley as its Prophet.

Though I am inspired by this curious testament I do not take it as my bible. I did not hear the words of Aiwass from over my shoulder, therefore it is not my revelation or proof. In spite of this I count myself as a Thelemite.

Thelema asks all the big questions by starting with one central koan:

What is thy Will?

The beauty and universal applicability of this koan is in that it neither spoon feeds nor force feeds the seeker an answer. The solution to the riddle is entirely your own.

Aleister chose to create a religion around this.
Staged quasi-Masonic initiations, revelations and specific rituals are the tools he chose to help others attain the answer to that one question.

What is it?

What is thy Will?

With Aleister’s Plymouth Brethren upbringing and subsequent experiences in the Golden Dawn an Order was the right way for him to proceed. Crowley deliberately created a religion as an ark for his teaching.

Whilst this religious and structured method can be extremely advantageous for some, it may not be the most useful way to attack the problem. Times and people have changed radically in the last one hundred years.

By making Thelema a process with a canon of scripture and practice it runs the risk of ossifying. If our Wills are all unique, then it would stand to reason that our methods of attainment will also wildly differ. Can you create an organisation that could ever contain or foster such aspirations?

I would personally make a bonfire of all the grade papers and statutes. Not necessary for me. But I will not make the mistake of claiming that they are without use to others.

What I question is seeing Crowley as a final full-stop, rather than an exclamation mark in a vision of an infinite unfurling Thelema.

No more heroes?

We all look to role models, mentors, peers or gurus as we progress on the path of initiation. At his best, Aleister is incredibly lucid and agile minded. He is the perfect silent study partner. In many ways his Works and rituals are an ideal guide for the aspiring magician or broadminded witch.

But he is not a man whom we should worship, and to his credit, he said as much himself. There are more than enough pale carbon copies of The Great Beast out there to demonstrate the inherent danger in confusing Crowley with Thelema itself.

Let us state it clearly: Thelema is not Crowley.

Falling into the cult of personality is a common flaw amongst wannabe Thelemites. There are good reasons for this happening.

To read and understand Crowley, in many ways we must become Crowley. As they said in the Sixties, you have to be on his trip.

To begin a programme of Occult study is a daunting prospect. The serious aspirant is advised to wade through a morass of confusing terms, alternative history, learn a smattering of bastard Latin, Greek and Hebrew. You also have to crucially transform your study from dead words into living gnosis. When mastering these steps even beginners find Crowley’s writing transform from frustratingly incomprehensible into a fresh breath of mountain air.

The problem can be that the Crowley paper chase becomes all-consuming and not all-begetting. In learning from his methods and soaring on his visions the core question and ultimate aim can become lost. ‘Know thyself’ becomes all too easily ‘Know the collected works of Crowley’.

I will say it again.

What is thy Will?

Not Crowley’s Will, yours.
Not Crowley’s rituals and methods, yours.
Not Crowley’s attainment, yours.

If you find yourself shaving your head, taking up rock climbing or holidaying near Loch Ness it may be time for you to check your internal compass.

I am not advocating a biopsy of Crowley as if he were a malignant mole on the smooth body of Thelema. I am suggesting that it is perhaps healthiest to view Aleister Crowley as one Saint and one Prophet out of many. He is the finger pointing at the moon, but not the moon itself.

Perhaps the old Theosophical electrician’s term ‘Current’ best describes this approach to Thelema. It is the Current that travels through the wiring which is important. The prophets are only temporary containers for this force.
I don’t worship blown bulbs.

In our new and strange age we have to make our own way. It is unrealistic to expect all our answers to come from a long dead Englishman, let alone a pale Galilean. We have better tools for the Work at hand than Aleister had. With them I am building a Temple.

Are you?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:22 / 16.06.05
Great peice of writing. I'm pretty much in agreement with all of it. Too busy this afternoon to respond more fully, but will do so when I can.
 
 
LVX23
21:13 / 16.06.05
And of course Crowley himslef described his work as Current 93.

I agree with much of what you've offered. But Thelema is more complex, IMHO, and doesn't reduce simply to What is your Will? There's the philosophy of personal realization and freedom; the canon of hermetica secured by occultists over millenia; the practical protocols and applications of ritual and will; the devotional prostrations and offerings; the traipsing and testing of the astral; etc etc etc...

According to Crowley's work, in order to find your personal Will you have to find the universal Will. The important texts offer tools towards this goal, whether Crowley or Kabbalah or hermetic or otherwise.

Orthodox Thelema (i.e. the Caliphate) certainly seems to be courting religion and may indeed be fixated on their ignoble Pope, but the living body of Thelema continues to grow and evolve through those practitioners who are truly dedicated to it's unfolding. Crowley, by his own admittance, didn't figure it all out. There's a lot of work that remains to be done and the life-long process of unraveling the mysteries is really only about apprehending them and making them manifest in your own life. It will continue to grow through each person that engages the canon.

Thelema is Crowley. And it's you and me and everyone else who works within it's system. But there will always be key figures that contribute the lion's share to any ideology-cum-religion. Most of the foundation of Thelema is built on history, not on Crowley. he just tied it all together in a nice package. He's a good marketing device for the mysteries of western (and eastern) esoterica. An entry point.

Basically, I agree though I'm not sure how many real Thelemites actually idolize Crowley in the way you suggest.
 
 
Lord Switch
23:17 / 16.06.05
LoL. Now this is a funny subject.

I shall just add some thoughts this thread sparked, even though they may not further any discussion:

Shall we maybe dwell on one little thing for awhile?
The orders and religion part
Seeing as thats what I like to talk about

Now, Uncle Al did not create the rituals in the oto, he modified them, made them more thelemic, if you will. exactly how is something we naturally cannot go deeper into.

Now the 3 "orders" that are and were thelemic are the OTO, the AA and the EGC.

The EGC is the ecclessiae catholica Gnostica, the thelemasized version of the EGU.
Thelema for the masses.
Most people "need" some form of religion, or philosophy to follow and the EGC gives that to them. The leap between other fates and the EGC is simple enough, the baptism and confirmation rites are open to all 13 years + i think, and it is used as the thelemic community.
Think of the EGC as the Catholic church for christianity, or a Mosk for muslims.

The OTO was the next stepingstone. In the same way as not every christian is ready to become a monk, or a believer in voodo to become a priest/ess, not every Thelemite is ready to undergo the mysteries. Joining the order does not make you more or less thelemite as becoming a monk does not make you more or less a christian.
But, the difference between a hindu believer and a hindu high priest is that the highpriest happens to know a couple of userfull tantric secrets. or whatever.

It says in the book of the law that every man and every woman is a star.

star=sun=tiphareth. right?
The perfected self. To be a thelemite one needs to constantly do ones will and to do hat one needs to find out what that will is and become all that one can be?

Now, thelema being or not being a religion.
Where should we pull the line?
Did Judaism evolve out of some hidden kabbalah tradition, that the masses coulnd´t understand and therefore needed it to be fed to them as a religion, or was it judaism that gave rise to kabbalah?

Is thelema a religion, strongly influenced by the semi religion that is hermeticism, with a healthy dose of whatever else he picked up on the way, or is it a usefull philosophy disquised as a religion for the "masses"?

BTW Peter Grey, are you by any chance a Libra? just out of iddle curiosity
 
 
Azrael
00:14 / 17.06.05
93,

As to the question you have asked. Can there be Thelema without Aleister? It is pretty hard to say. He is definitely a lighting rod at this point in time and his acheivements, although great are from a different time and will not mean the same to us. What used to be important and emotional back then is just a fantastic story for Thelemites to tell their kids at bedtime.
When it comes to belief systems, I have found that whatever I come across only aids me by clarifying my own thoughts but ultimatly, what someone did a hundred years ago, and even less two thousand years ago, although not unimportant, is usually irrelavent to us all and how we view life. I just use them as metaphores.

If we keep clinging to the ideas of the past, will we ever discover things for ourselves, about what we could be instead of what we have been?
It is always easier to praise an ideal than to actually follow it. I think there is a great deal of fear there for us as people; maybe that is why superficiality is the status quo.

I have heard of gnosis as something to acheive. Gnosis being the acquired knowledge of the past. What about originality and new though, a new direction. In his life, I believe that Crowley could have achieved that to a certain extent but as always, once a fascinating idea is grasp, it becomes adored and prayed upon and in doing so losing everything but the most superficial aspect of it. Or maybe it was always superficial but we were too ignorant to see that the LAW was not wrong but incomplete and must be added to. That it was just right when Crowley sang it and never more. We grow and become more, surpass the ideas of our fathers.
For one though, I think that "do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law" and "love is the law, love under will" is a good place for my ignorance to start but understanding that there is always more.

...And being sickened by the irony of what I just wrote, I say thank you for what you said.

Laurent
 
 
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09:05 / 17.06.05
93,

Thanks for the responses, I'll cut and paste a little. As a techie aside It'd be useful if the boards showed the thread on the same screen as the reply to save having two windows open..

Reply to LVX23:

I have indeed distilled everything down to what I find to be the essential nature of Thelema. Will is both complex and incredibly simple. I realise I'm preaching to the choir here.

I am in complete agreement that the personal Will and the universal Will cannot be severed. My conception of Will is perhaps closer to Taoism than anything else. I have also avoided raising the issue of the Angel, the 'thou' in DWTW to limit the scope of the piece.

I enjoy your optimism about the unfolding of the current, but part of the reason for my polemic is the lack of public progressive discussion IME. The 'Thelema beyond Crowley' conference in London being a case in point. It sometimes seems that Chaos has all the radical thinkers and Thelema is being smothered in mummy dust. I think it is worth getting back to basics rather than getting lost in the Libers. This is part of my way of Working towards that goal.

>Basically, I agree though I'm not sure how many real >Thelemites actually idolize Crowley in the way you >suggest.

I think the idolisation of Crowley is a phase we all go through to some extent. Be interested in who you have come across who identifies as a Thelemite, or you would identify as such, and is breaking new ground.

I am striving to articulate what I think many Thelemites are doing, and thinking. In that sense this polemic is a fish-hook. Thanks for biting.

Will
Love


Peter Grey
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:32 / 17.06.05
It sometimes seems that Chaos has all the radical thinkers

That's the funniest thing I've read all week!
 
 
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09:37 / 17.06.05
93,

Reply to Lord Switch:

>Shall we maybe dwell on one little thing for awhile?
>The orders and religion part Seeing as thats what I like >to talk about

Decided not to do a hatchet job on the various Orders. I don't think it helps. Certainly there is implied criticism of for example the Caliphate OTO and the Crowley industry.
I can also berate the tentacled Typhonians, and the mass of splinter groups. But there is enough bile and negativity on the net and the politics are of less interest to me than the spirit of Thelema.

>Now, Uncle Al did not create the rituals in the oto, he >modified them, made them more thelemic, if you will.

Absolutely, and the information is out there. The IHO book though disorganised and now banned, did rather let the cat out of the bag.

>Now the 3 "orders" that are and were thelemic are the OTO, >the AA and the EGC.

Ah, but then there's the Fraternitas Saturni, the Swiss OTO, the OTOA, SOTO, even arguably Gardnerian Wicca, and any other number of oddities..

>Most people "need" some form of religion, or philosophy to >follow and the EGC gives that to them.

My experience is limited here, but I would assume that the EGC is purely a COTO offshoot rather than a wider Thelemic church. I would also argue that the religious approach is rather dated in our secular age.

>The OTO was the next stepingstone. In the same way as not >every christian is ready to become a monk, or a believer >in voodo to become a priest/ess, not every Thelemite is >ready to undergo the mysteries.

Every man and woman is a star, but it is not the Will of every Thelemite to be a bells and smells ceremonial magickian or be initiated into the mysteries, agreed.

>But, the difference between a hindu believer and a hindu >high priest is that the highpriest happens to know a >couple of userfull tantric secrets. or whatever.

And here I differ. The secrets are out there. It is a matter of whether you are actively using them or not. I disagree with AC's 'I've got THE secret' approach. Certainly it is a great recruiting pitch, but the higher grade OTO secrets are rather crude technology.

Is Thelema a religion? I would argue not. Many would disagree, there is an extensive debate on lashtal.com about this that may interest you here.

Perhaps someone else would do better at opening up this angle.

Oh, and I'm a Pisces.


93 93 93

Peter Grey
 
 
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09:44 / 17.06.05
sorry gypsy lantern, keyboard slip, I meant to type 'out and out mental cases'.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:47 / 17.06.05
I'm a Thelemite, in the sense that I believe:

"Do as Thou Wilt shall be the Whole of the Law"

"Love is the Law, Love under Will"

"Every Man and Woman is a Star"

I try to live my life according to these principles as I understand them. Aside from that, my Will has been to almost completely set aside the entirety of the western mystery tradition and look at other areas of magic that appeal more directly to me and what I want to accomplish. I don't see this in any way conflicting with Thelema. It just hasn't been my Will to fuck about with all of them pentacles and endless charts and tables of stuff.

I have an enormous amount of respect for Aleister Crowley, as a scholar, a magician and an innovator. The Magician of his generation, or one of them. But he was just a guy. Even if you accept him as the prophet of Thelema, which I think I probably do, he was still just a guy in contact with strange beings. It's unusual, but not that unusual in the greater scheme of things. He had work to do. He did it. We all have work to do. Whether we do it or not is at the heart of Thelema.
 
 
LVX23
15:09 / 17.06.05
Yeah, what Gypsy said.

It sometimes seems that Chaos has all the radical thinkers and Thelema is being smothered in mummy dust.

Perhaps... this is probably symptomatic of our Age. Human logic and understanding is becoming less binary/dualistic and more open to personal relativism. More and more, people want to create their own worlds rather than live someone else's. The www is a huge enabler of this both educating people on the diversity of faiths & traditions and allowing the individual to construct their own personal philosophy/ontology. CM proceeds from this type of pomo collaging of multiple local realities while Thelema still tends to be rather closed and Old Aeon.
 
 
Professor Silly
07:01 / 19.06.05
I'd like to expound on what Lord Switch had to say earlier, as I feel they are on the right track to answering the crucial question here. The three orders mentioned, EGC, OTO, and A.'.A.'., all have different focuses. I would agree, having worked within each of these, that the EGC represents the religious aspects of Thelema. For this reason I've always found this group less useful to my path. It would be fair to say that the EGC is a specialized part of the OTO, as it is highly encouraged (if not outright required) for the High Priest to be of a certain degree within the OTO.
The OTO is the fraternal aspect of Thelema--a networking tool if you will. In my six years of experience with the order I have found that a lot of the Thelemites who seek initiation within the OTO seem flaky and Crowley-worshippers...not all of 'em, but a lot.
On the other side, the A.'.A.'. has nothing whatsoever to do with religion beyond the motto: The Method of Science, the Aim of Religion. Within this structure belief is a hindrance that must be overcome, and to me that means it is the antithesis of what I consider a religion. As was stated earlier, every individual has a unique path to gnosis, which is why the A.'.A.'. system forces its members to learn every technique possible; how else can one know what's going to work for them without trying 'em all?
To draw a comparison to a Christian framework, the EGC represents the church, the OTO represents the study group, and the A.'.A.'. represents the monestary. That comparison has limited usefulness...it'd be better to compare the OTO to any fraternal society (like the masons) and the A.'.A.'. to Shoa Lin temples.
Now, not all three groups will work for each individual--different people will be drawn to different parts for different reasons...and that's the beauty of the system as a whole. So getting back to the original question "Can there be Thelema without Uncle Al?" I would suggest looking at it from three different angles.
Can there be Thelema as expressed within the Gnostic Mass without Crowley? I would say yes, in that he merely wrote the ritual. Do we care who wrote any of the Christian rituals? No, we don't. So his authorship is more or less trivial to what the ritual accomplishes in those that attend.
Can there be Thelema as practiced by the OTO without Crowley? I would say no. The (Caliphyte) OTO presently serves by keeping Crowley's works in print, and only abstractly by encouraging the liberty of every individual.
Can there be Thelema as practiced by the A.'.A.'. without Crowley? This one is much trickier! Can we have Buddhism without Buddha or Taoism without Lao Tzu? Yes and no. Initially the teachings of the founder must take precidence...but if the system works each individual MUST move beyond the teacher.
Short answer: as a philosophy Thelema does not need Crowley--one can be a Thelemite and never read a book by Crowley. As a religion Thelema doesn't really need Crowley. As a methodology Thelema only partially needs Crowley--and only because of the work he did, not because of who he was. But as a forum for social (fraternal) interaction Thelema very much needs Crowley, as a binding agent if nothing else.
 
 
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11:43 / 21.06.05
93,

Thanks for the input.

>Can there be Thelema as expressed within the Gnostic Mass >without Crowley? I would say yes, in that he merely wrote >the ritual.

This may be of interest to you in terms of the origins of the Gnostic Mass.

> So his authorship is more or less trivial to what the > ritual accomplishes in those that attend.

Agreed, the proof is in the pudding, or cake in this case. As I am not a recovering Catholic, the Mass is not of much value to me.

>Can there be Thelema as practiced by the OTO without >Crowley? I would say no.

Unfortunately I have to agree. It does seem to be rather frozen. I favour a more progressive approach, not throwing out AC, but allowing and encouraging evolution. The OTO does not appear to be the most suitable approach for our times, though for some of my Brothers it is.

>The (Caliphyte) OTO presently serves by keeping Crowley's >works in print,

Or, I would mischeviously add, out of print..Certainly they have done a good job of making a lot of material available, I remember how hard and expensive it was to find Crowley books when I was starting out on the path.

>Can there be Thelema as practiced by the A.'.A.'. without >Crowley? This one is much trickier!

Amen to that.

>Initially the teachings of the founder must take >precidence...but if the system works each individual MUST >move beyond the teacher.

That rather sums up the whole New Aeon approach. The Work requires discipline but not slavish imitation.
It is gratifying to get these kind of considered responses and will be even more interesting to see how things continue to unfold in this bold future.

Will
Love

Peter Grey
 
 
h3r
23:44 / 10.07.05
93,

gypsy, great reply. i fully agree with u.

Can there be Thelema without Crowley?
another question answers this: Can there be Christianity without J.C.?

Can there be Thelema as practiced by the A.'.A.'. without Crowley? This one is much trickier!
Doesn't seem too tricky to me.....
AC laid down the floorplan, the instruction system is in place. His job is done.
IMHO the thelemic system of A.'.A.'. goes on, no problem.

if one was to compare Thelema to Christianity, I think the Christian Gnostics would be a good equivalent of the A.'.A.'. order.
(interesting thought: mainstream Christianity eventually prosecuted and practically stamped out the Gnostics)

93 93/93
 
 
Digital Hermes
00:16 / 13.07.05
I just finished 'Magick Without Tears', and I feel that Crowley himself would agree with the disassociation between him and his order. Most of the letters involve him being irreverant, while also giving tools, but not pronouncements.

Being able to make a correllation to the Kabbalah(sp?) upon seeing anything, having a working symbol-system you can use anywhere? Good advice in any respect, don't you think?

Some of the letters do stray into his specific cosmology, but never from the perspective that we are intended to follow him. For example, one of the letters on the Tao implied that the Tao, (like Gnosis, I think) is a state of active, present knowing and perception, rather then a rememberance of forumulae and rituals. Those formulae and rituals are only usefull when actively used to induce the Gnosis-state, the active knowing.

Heck, most of the time he's apologizing for the lack of erudition in his letters.
 
  
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