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The Colonisation Question.

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11:44 / 06.12.06

About Stephen Hawking… it seems Richard Branson is determined to help him into space. I think the first thing they're going to do is send him on one of those weightless jaunts then if all goes well he’ll be able to go on Virgin Galactic’s SpaceShip 2.

In colonization news, I’ve just read these two articles today on New Scientist (I also read the same report on Space.com yesterday).

Nasa's lunar base timetable.

The moon base will be open to other nations and private corporations.

This all makes the possibility of a lunar settlement much more likely to happen as Nasa doesn’t have to carry the bulk of the responsibility. Plus the private sector will definitely bring in some needed capital. I know most hardcore scientist will probably find the commercialization of the moon to be annoying, but I think this is wasn’t going to be the difference between and lunar settlement and a lunar outpost.

Lagrange's Nightmare

10:40 / 16.12.06

I have to say that I see colonisation of other planets in our current situation as one of the worst decisions the earth could make. There are only two real paths colonisation could take: where either
new and exciting resources are discovered on the planet/s or they aren't. (ok there are also military options, but i'm not talking about them)

Assuming there is no 'natural advantage' of the planet to be exploited and since the current levels of population we could currently sustain presumably isn't very significant, what does this colonisation become? The world's most expensive experiment I guess, which by no means should rule out colonisation just maybe we have more important things to worry about in the mean time. Off world colonies seem to have potential though.

The thing that really worries me though is what would happen if some incredible new resource was found. In the current / near to mid-future situation where colonisation would only be available to those with the money to pay for it the supply of the resource would inevitably end up being controlled by the same big governments and multi-national (multi-global now that's a scary thought...) corporations. This would pretty much leave the world in the same situation it is now and only really benefit the rich.

I think that as a species we need to constantly be expanding our frontiers otherwise we will begin to stagnate and grow insular.

I also disagree with is; in fact I think my opinion maybe the complete opposite. Pretty soon the earth is going to face some pretty difficult situations whether it is brought about through climate change, resource shortfalls or something we haven't even thought of yet the only way we are going to get through these problems is by a drastic revaluation and change in our lifestyles. By 'expanding our frontiers' we are just taking the easy route out and preventing the growth we could as a species achieve, which will lead to the stagnation of the race. Why does expanding our frontiers have to be territorial?

I know that opinion is a little harsh as it would be preferable that millions didn't have to suffer so the rest of the species could improve, but is that likely?

13:42 / 16.12.06

I don’t think we’re in danger of discovering an incredible new resource that only governments and corporations will monopolize. We’ll find the same old resources only in larger quantities. Yes, a few powerful people will have control of it but that the same situation that we have on Earth and that’s not going to change any time soon. When the control and distribution does change the change will also apply to space resources. I don’t see this as a negative. People with the capital to go out there and get these riches will inevitably bring it back to Earth and it will trickle down to everyone else.

I think the change (and subsequent growth) would come even if we colonize space. A few hundred people on the moon and/or Mars would not change Earth’s situation much when “climate change, resource shortfalls or something we haven't even thought of yet” comes. There will still be billions of people living right here on Earth and I doubt they’ll sit back, say, “well, at least we’ve got some folks up there”, and allow themselves to go under. Yes, the resources of space will help alleviate some of the problems, but it will not solve them.

I never understood why people think it has to be one or the other. You can have social growth as well as border growth.

Lagrange's Nightmare

04:45 / 18.12.06

Sorry my second argument was a bit muddled. Yes I agree a couple of hundred people on the moon wouldn't make any difference to the actions of the rest of the human race as i had said earlier in my post.

The second part would relate more to resource shortfalls I guess then any of the other possible situations. Say for example humans do manage to exhaust the easily accessible oil, uranium and coal reserves; I think it would be unfortunate if the resource companies suddenly discovered they could find a heap more on Mars and we just kept going in our good old non-sustainable way. Of course the economics of that example is probably messed up, hopefully renewables/fusion would be cheaper then inter-planatery coal shipments. However it applies to many other resources that could (probably?) be recycled but while there is a nice cheap supply to dig out of the ground only the ones that are relatively easy to recycle will be.

I would be interested to know what people think about the plans for the manned bases on the moon. Given the current state of technology are these bases worth it? Will they help us progress towards colonisation or is it just America confirming it's still the big boy on the block to the upcoming entrants in the space race? (If this should be a new thread let me know....)

15:46 / 20.12.06

I would be interested to know what people think about the plans for the manned bases on the moon.

Me too.

19:02 / 20.12.06

A darkside astronomical observation post would be well worth it. I believe China plan one (IMHO the reason US have proposed theirs).

10:52 / 25.04.07

New Caprica found!

Earthlike planet with liquid water! It's really real! Twenty light years away ('...in galactic terms it is relatively nearby at 120 trillion miles away') so we have to sort out that pesky FTL drive before we can get there, but still! There might be life who knows!

'Astronomers reported on Wednesday they had discovered a "super-Earth" more than 20 light years away that is the most intriguing world found so far in the search for extraterrestrial life.

About five times the mass of Earth, the planet orbits a cool, dim "red dwarf" star located in the constellation of Libra, the team from the European Southern Observatory (ESO) said in a press release.'

Another link "We have discovered a very low mass planet. In fact, it is the lowest mass ever discovered. It's only five times the mass of the Earth"

11:36 / 25.04.07

Does that mean Earth is an incredibly low-mass planet though? If it weighs five times as much as Earth?

S'interesting news about the new planet though. I wonder if it's in a region that's been scanned by SETI? If (theoretically) radio waves from there arrived today then how long ago would they have been sent?

Closed for Business Time

11:49 / 25.04.07

It has been scanned by SETI - twice. Link here.

Quote: "Seth Shostak, a senior astronomer at the SETI institute, said the Gliese 581 system has in fact been looked at twice before for signs of intelligent life. The first time was in 1995 using the Parks Radio Telescope in Australia; the second time occured in 1997 using the Greenbank Radio Telescope in West Virgina. Both times revealed nothing.

“It has been looked at twice, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look at it again,” Shostak said. “And indeed we should because this is the best candidate the solar planet guys have come up with yet.”"

Closed for Business Time

11:55 / 25.04.07

52ES said If (theoretically) radio waves from there arrived today then how long ago would they have been sent?

Isn't the speed of propagation of EM radiation in a vacuum always the speed of light? Granted - the space between Gliese 581 C and Earth might not be a perfect vacuum, but even if the speed of those radio waves was only half that of light, they wouldn't be more than ca 41 years old.

12:09 / 25.04.07

Does that mean Earth is an incredibly low-mass planet though? If it weighs five times as much as Earth?

Isn't this about detection limits in the method? Aren't planets detected by the perturbations in visible (ie star) objects? I guess it does imply that planets the size of ours are not detectable at the distances under consideration.

13:33 / 25.04.07

Which is why planet-hunters now should probably turn their attention to red dwarfs, which have been overlooked till now (sol-centric prejudice, me supposes): their smaller size and deemer light allows to detect smaller disturbances and thus smaller planets. But we still are capable only of finding planets that are freakishly close to their mother-stars. And that's what startles me: there seems to be an amazing abundancy of planets of all types around.
Me and a buddy have an ongoing bet as to how long it will take for perfect M-Class planet to be found. My money is on ten years or less (the bet is almost two years old now). I might just win that Black Label J&B

14:14 / 25.04.07

Isn't the speed of propagation of EM radiation in a vacuum always the speed of light?

Yeah, so twenty years. If there's any life there it doesn't have telly or radio the way we do.

That's one of the problems I have with SETI actually, the assumption that alien life will be similar enough to our own, and develop comparable technology, to send out EM broadcasts. What if aliens are really, well, alien? I know we're looking for human-similar things but the odds are astronomically slim.
Heh.

15:29 / 25.04.07

I agree, but it's kinda hard to look for technology we don't know yet, right?

15:31 / 25.04.07

And besides, screw intelligent alien life. Who wants real estate that is already occupied, huh? [insert funny smiley]

16:30 / 25.04.07

I like the way the Daily Mail rationalised what information in the form of radio waves etc. would be reaching the planet about now; imagine 'people' out there listening to Margaret Thatcher and Michael Jackson's Bad.

If there's anything there listening, what the hell are they going to make of that?

16:34 / 25.04.07

it's kinda hard to look for technology we don't know yet

Why assume hypothetical aliens would use technology? It could be a planet spanning hyperintelligent telepathic moss or a civilisation of crystal birds or methanoid underground swamp dwellers or something we literally cannot imagine. If New Caprica is totally ocean covered then any hypothetical aliens would be aquatic, and probably not too concerned with space travel or television broadcasts.

jentacular dreams

17:42 / 25.04.07

And they'd never develop fire.

The losers.

17:53 / 25.04.07

Why assume hypothetical aliens would use technology?

Also a good point

As for the planet's name, I don't like "New Capicra". How about we make something original?

Its code is 851 c, and I hear the scientists who discovered call it simply "c" when talking among themselves. So, how about "the Big C"? It's cute, it's cool, and it's quasi-scientific.

Or how about just MELPY? (as in "Most Earth-Like Planet Yet")

20:11 / 25.04.07

Melpy is fun, but New Caprica is aces, alas. Although it's a close-run thing.

16:45 / 26.04.07

The problem with New Caprica is it's taken.

Melpy! Melpy! Melpy!

13:00 / 27.04.07

Most Easily Located & Catalogued Habitable Earth-Type Terrain = MELCHETT

17:35 / 27.04.07

News on Hawking getting into space plus pic of weightless Steven with massive grin.

11:32 / 25.07.07

Paging people interested in this thread, there's a related subject over in Head that you might find interesting.

12:12 / 29.10.07

The most important question regarding long-term space travel and colonisation of other worlds is, of course...

Where's the beer?

Looks like spirits are the way to go if you want to have a tipple in space. Which explains all the whiskey they drink on Galactica.

Sjaak at the Shoe Shop

12:35 / 29.10.07

Don't you know?

here!

22:24 / 21.01.14

Bump

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