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SETH and others, any thoughts on New Thought?

 
 
Joetheneophyte
13:44 / 12.06.05
there was a topic sometime back on the Barbelith Book pages about Self Improvement Books

From this thread, I purchased a book by Dr Maxwell Maltz a respected plastic surgeon who taught his patients to hold images of themselves in perfect health and with their desired changes for a period of time, in an effort to let their minds adjust to their new appearance. Maltz had noticed that some of his patients had low self esteem even when he had performed totally transformative surgery on their looks, whilst others felt and acted like new people, even when a tiny bump or minute scar had been removed. He was intrigued by this discrepancy and attempted to find a method whereby all his patients could adjust to life after surgery in the desired way

Maltz equated the subconscious with a heat seeking missile. If directions were given to it, then it would perform it's task admirably but had no logical or analytical attributes of it's own.....just following orders that may have been impressed upon it in earlier years , even childhood

This made sense and fitted in with my limited knowledge of Hypnosis. I know that the subconscious has its own laws and rules (as per the work of Erickson) but generally, it can be set in motion to work negatively or positively for the person, dependant upon conditioning, belief, Engrams and Imprints.
Erickson believed THE UNCONSCIOUS/SUBCONSCIOUS is always working for your good but that it's methodologies and learning strategies might be erroneous and cause problems as a result. It might kill you to save you in a perverse way

Anyway, this book by Maltz got me interested in the whole field of new thought and I found myself tracing a lineage back through the decades, to Ernest Holmes, Christian Larsen and back to Phineas P Quimby

some books I purchased, some I read online and others I have yet to read. Most seem to agree on one thing

They all suggest that a belief, held in the conscious mind and mulled over earnestly and repeatedly, cannot help but manifest in the world of our five senses

Some disagree on minor ethical issues like the importance of wealth creation and how to go about it (Wallace Wattles and Thomas Hamblin) , and some have apparent disagreements as to the limit of the effects in the outside world


Some like Joseph Murphy, believe that like Sigilization or other forms of magick, an idea impressed repeatedly and earnestly upon the subconscious, can achieve miracles, affecting not only the thinker but also the outer world

Others such as Ernest Holmes are more spiritual and think the highest ideal is getting in touch with your inner core, which for all intents and purposes sounded just like the Holy Guardian Angel of the Golden Dawn Tradition

This topic interests me greatly as it is the apparent opposite of Sigils and other magickal practices, yet the results seem the same. More than one way to skin a cat I suppose (horrible term, sorry)
Instead of firing/charging and suppressing the memory, you are repeatedly bringing to mind the thought of aim AS IF IT WAS ALREADY IN EXISTENCE. This struck me as similar to the Magickal practice of imagining on the ASTRAL plane and the object or person manfiesting in 'reality'.......Herbie (J H Brennan) advocates this practice or something very similar in Magic for Beginners and I have read similare accounts and instructions in numerous other magick books

We seem to be dealing with the same phenomona but rather than presented in a mystical or magickal footing, this seems to be for the most part veiled in Biblical or Christian terminology. Personally, I found the Biblical slant not off putting as it was more like Gnostic Christianity than the stuff we hear in most churches and for me this was welcome and heartening

One thing I did notice was that from the authors I had read, the claims seemed to get less extravagent from Quimby on down through each successive author, with the exception of Murphy, who even relatively recently was claiming successes that beggar belief


Now Seth might be able to help me here as he/she is well versed in NLP and some of these practices pre-date and I suppose must have inspired Bandler and Grinder (or they just re-discovered this 'lost' art)


On the urface, the Affirmation method of the New Thought Practitioners (even if they do not class themselves as such) such as Ernest Holmes and Joseph Murphy seems little different than Coue'ism. Murphy and Holmes do assert that a mental image is important.......as if the requested change or circumstance was alreeady in your possession

this reminded me of Bandlers' Swish technique, though it differs slightly in that Bandler states that Swishing is better to a disassociated image although he admits, to get a feel of the desired change it is okay to toy with an associated feeling/image

(for non NLP minded folk, associated images like the name suggests is looking at a mental construct or memory as if from your own eyes, whilst disassociated means seeing yourself as if from an outside vantage point)

Sorry I digress and this is long enough

So Seth and others, I would be interested if you could tell me your thoughts on:

The efficacy and limitations of the NEW THOUGHT techniques in self change and for magickal means?

What if any methods you might know that the NEW THOUGHT practioners might have utilised other than affirmations and visual imagery/kinaesthetic ideation?

How New Thought or similar techniques are better than just Coue like affirmations?


I would be most interested to read your thoughts on this if you would be willing to share. thanks
 
 
LVX23
05:07 / 13.06.05
Seen & Not Seen - Talking Heads (1980)

He would see faces in movies, on T.V., in magazines, and in books
He thought that some of these faces might be right for him
And through the years, by keeping an ideal facial structure fixed in his mind
Or somewhere in the back of his mind
That he might, by force of will, cause his face to approach those of his ideal
The change would be very subtle
It might take ten years or so
Gradually his face would change its' shape
A more hooked nose
Wider, thinner lips
Beady eyes
A larger forehead

He imagined that this was an ability he shared with most other people
They had also molded their faced according to some ideal
Maybe they imagined that their new face would better suit their personality
Or maybe they imagined that their personality would be forced to change to fit the new appearance
This is why first impressions are often correct
Although some people might have made mistakes
They may have arrived at an appearance that bears no relationship to them
They may have picked an ideal appearance based on some childish whim, or momentary impulse
Some may have gotten half-way there, and then changed their minds

He wonders if he too might have made a similar mistake.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
14:19 / 13.06.05
thanks for that, I had never heard of that song but it definately addresses the Maltz end of the spectrum and then some........I have never really given Talking Heads a listen and I would be interested to know whether the writer of this song actually believes in this or it was just a topic he/she thought was interesting

thanks for the input

Joe
 
 
FinderWolf
17:00 / 13.06.05
what's funny is I thought you were referring to Seth, the channeled entity of the sort-of-famous books in the headline for this topic... anyone ever read those? They deal a lot with the familiar notion that we are creating our own reality, be it consciously or subconsciously...
 
 
Joetheneophyte
15:25 / 14.06.05
Never had the opportunity to read them yet but I will hunt them out sometime. I have loads of stuff to get through et but as soon as this is out the way, I will make it my business to get onto that stuff

thanks
 
  
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