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Wu-Tang: The Manual

 
  

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Seth
15:54 / 02.06.05
I’ve just had one of those wonderful experiences where you walk into a shop and accidentally discover something you never knew existed.

The Wu-Tang Manual by The RZA

It’s a mix of Five-Percent Islam, hip hop, numerology, martial arts, zen, self-empowerment, business sense, Wu-Tang history, and self-mythologising. It covers quite a staggering range, wastes a lot of space in its design and has a photo of Ghostface (a man I’d like to sleep with). It’s got lyric transcripts, lists all their names and is full of brilliant daftness and RZA-sharp intellect.

So here’s the idea. I get paid in about two weeks and I plan on getting this and working through it like you would any other grimoire. My only concern is that it’ll be technique-lite, so extra attention will have to be paid to inferring technique from the text.

If nothing else it’ll be a bit of fun. Anyone else up for it?
 
 
Darumesten's second variety
20:39 / 02.06.05
I wonder if they already use this self-mithology .. hiphop-magick ??
 
 
Seth
21:44 / 02.06.05
I wonder if they already use this self-mithology

Hugely.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
21:54 / 02.06.05
I love the idea, but I don't know much about Wu-Tang. I really dig "Liquid Swords" though.

This reminds me of that scene in Coffee & Cigarettes with (I think) RZA and GZA. Herbalism and holistic medicine is discussed... maybe it was intended as a grimoire.
 
 
Seth
22:02 / 02.06.05
RZA's a fascinating bloke with broad esoteric interests. Whether it's a grimoire or not I reckon it's worth doing.

Liquid Swords is indeed a fucking classic. I hope you do the right thing and use it as a springboard to get into the best band of all time.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
23:32 / 02.06.05
Weird!! I actually saw this book in the airport a couple of months ago and had the exact same thought! Did you notice the fact that this book actually has its own Liber 777-style Wu-Tang gematria in it? No fucking shit you not. Would be up for some Wu-Tang workings...
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
00:06 / 03.06.05
Killa Bees: Aeon of Ma'at

Wu-Tang / Wei Wu Wei connection?

Enter da 36 Chambers of Death and 360 Degrees of Perfected Style y'all
 
 
Seth
05:16 / 03.06.05
Did you notice the fact that this book actually has its own Liber 777-style Wu-Tang gematria in it?

Yeah. This is gonna be awesome.
 
 
BGK
05:40 / 03.06.05
I look forward to getting this book - sooner or later. (Must get a job first...)
 
 
illmatic
09:20 / 03.06.05
I saw this the other day - but didn't have the same thoughts, I did think "when is Flyboy's birthday"?
I also thought errmm ... cynical marketing. Bad humourless me.

I'd be up for it. I heard somewhere, some interview of other than Rza was into the I Ching. I doubt with much depth though. IIRC, their numerology is pretty simple also. Funny, 'cos after reading Pop Culture Magic, I felt that Hip Hop and raving, too of the most exciting trends in pop culture over the last 20 years were conspicous by their absence.
 
 
Seth
10:20 / 03.06.05
Isn't crass marketing one of the pillars of the Wu-Tang, though? They've never hidden their desire to make a buck, whether it be through video games, comics or nail salons. RZA has been very vocal about creatng a brand in the past.

There's some interesting little tidbits from my flick-through in the shop that strike me as worth talking about in more depth... for example, I think they've got the concept of multiple identities/ficsuits down to a fine art, even to the extent of swapping names with each other until a name organically finds its permanent owner. I find that notion well worth chewing over...
 
 
Bruno
11:42 / 03.06.05
I havent read the book yet, thank you Seth for letting me know, it sounds interesting.

Hip-hop is basically a religious movement, an initiatory mystery cult, which has disguised itself, disguised itself so much it has forgotten what it is.

About the fiction suits/self mythologizing, the art of MCing is to a large extent about creating a persona and being possessed by it. Watch MCs eyes when they freestyle, they are on another plane, another level; the eyes remind me of a video I once saw of a haitian ritual.
You rap about fucking lots of girls and before you know it you are. Listening to Ready to Die you realize Biggie asked for it. I read an interview by Johhny Juice (Public Enemy's secret DJ) and he said back in the day, Chuck D used to be very different from Charles Ridenhour (whatever his passport name really is anyway), but in time they fused into a single person. Chuck D was smart about it, I have met him briefly and he is a very humble but very powerful person, very respectful too. He was 27 when he first released an album, most rappers have quit by that age. Most rappers create an irresponsible persona and it comes back and destroys them.

The way MCs pick new names is interesting, it has some roots in the nation of islam (Malcolm X, Clarence 13X, Muhammed Ali etc) and it brings to mind the name one has in an occult order, it is initiatory. Also the name being an authority (Lord Finesse, Grand Wizard Theodore, Professor Griff, Blastmaster KRS1, Big Daddy Kane, etc) can be traced to calypso, reggae and jazz (Lord Kitchener, Prince Buster, King Tubby, Duke Ellington, Count Basie etc) and I understand it as being a detournement of colonialist perceptions of status. The Wu Tang are on another level when it comes to the names, it's them and Kool Keith. Interesting to note that they also use superhero names (Tony Starks, Johnny Blaze etc).

Seth which names do they switch around?

The numerology of wu tang lyrics is Supreme Mathematics and it is from the Five Percent Nation (there is a very short article "Supreme Mathematics" on wikipedia which explains it). Some of the 5percent stuff can be quite powerful but it is designed to exclude so-called whites.

The Wu have been irresponsible and it has come back to hit them. They have fallen off, their last decent release was the japanese ghost dog OST. Respect to them for what they did but I seriously doubt they can take the weight they have hanging onto them.

-Elel-
 
 
Bruno
11:49 / 03.06.05
about the names, I forgot one of the basic ones - Sun Ra.

Identification of the self with the sun god is maybe the essence of 5percent and maybe also of positive MCing ("da shinin", "Ason, I keep planets in orbit", "I call my brother son cos he shines like one" etc).
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:15 / 03.06.05
Great post Bruno!

Hip-hop is basically a religious movement, an initiatory mystery cult, which has disguised itself, disguised itself so much it has forgotten what it is... an be traced to calypso, reggae and jazz (Lord Kitchener, Prince Buster, King Tubby, Duke Ellington, Count Basie etc)... the eyes remind me of a video I once saw of a haitian ritual.

It's a very loose, very broad connection, but if you consider how hip hop has at least some of its roots in Jamaican DJ toasting it leads you to some interesting speculation. As I understand it, an important aspect of the birth of reggae was the meeting of Kingston soundsystem culture with Rastafari, such as the Pinnacle community, Count Ossie, etc..

I've read some stuff about Pinnacle that suggested a lot of varied experimentation into African religions was going on there at the time, and the drumming patterns of reggae were partly based on Kumina drum rhythm. Kumina is the musical component of the Jamaican Pocomania religion - which, as I understand it, is a bit like the Pentecostal church but with the congregation being possessed and taken up by the ancestors rather than the Holy Spirit.

I think it's a fair comment that religions like Pocomania are the direct Jamaican equivalent of religions such as Vodou in Haiti, Santeria in Cuba, Candomble in Brazil, etc... But given the fact Jamaica was colonised by a Protestant country, the full syncretism didn't quite take hold in the same way that it did in the countries colonised by Catholics. Without the presence of the Catholic Saints, it's more difficult for the African Gods to find expression. However, Pocomania is still an aspect of the process of syncretism between African traditional religion and Christianity, which makes it a bit like the Jamaican equivalent of Vodou.

Therefore you actually can trace a slightly ephemeral, shaky line between African "voodoo" and reggae, and onwards into hip hop...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:09 / 03.06.05
Listening to Ready to Die you realize Biggie asked for it.

Could you unpack this a little for me, please?

most rappers have quit by that age [27].

Are you sure?

The Wu Tang are on another level when it comes to the names, it's them and Kool Keith.

Them, Kool Keith, El-P, Jay-Z, 90% of current rappers out there...

The Wu have been irresponsible and it has come back to hit them.

In what way(s) have they been irresponsible, and in what way(s) has it "come back to hit them"? Please illustrate cause and effect rather than providing examples of irresponsible things they have done and bad things that have happened to them without providing a connection that isn't merely speculative.

They have fallen off, their last decent release was the japanese ghost dog OST.

This is highly contestable and contested subjective opinion presented as fact. Many people believe Ghostface's most recent (Pretty Toney) album was a very fine record.
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:55 / 03.06.05
some threads that may intrest you majickle hip hop

Shamanism, Racism, and Hip Hop Culture
Essays on White Supremacy and Black Subversion


a very exciting power point presentation on how to recondition way ward youths
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:04 / 03.06.05
Ruminations by kris parker may well be worth taking a look at.
 
 
Bruno
15:24 / 03.06.05
Listening to Ready to Die you realize Biggie asked for it...Could you unpack this a little for me, please?...The Wu have been irresponsible and it has come back to hit them...In what way(s) have they been irresponsible, and in what way(s) has it "come back to hit them"? Please illustrate cause and effect rather than providing examples of irresponsible things they have done and bad things that have happened to them without providing a connection that isn't merely speculative

"What you reap is what you sow" or the law of karma, which I assume you dont believe in. When I DJ or MC I tend to have experiences that I interpret as sped-up karma, or the results of karma becoming very evident and clear. You can say I am imagining it. Some of the Wu have said things which indicate they believe in it too, off-hand now check the lyrics to RZA's Sunshower, or the many times they mention the kids paying for the sins of the fathers.

Biggie said that he wanted to die on both Ready to Die and Suicidal Thoughts, maybe others I do not remember. Is that unpacked? Do you MC, sing or use incantations?

The Wu Tang are on another level when it comes to the names, it's them and Kool Keith.
Them, Kool Keith, El-P, Jay-Z, 90% of current rappers out there...


Maybe you didn't understand what I meant by another level when it comes to the names. I meant that they play around with 'fictionsuits' on another level.

They have fallen off, their last decent release was the japanese ghost dog OST.
This is highly contestable and contested subjective opinion presented as fact. Many people believe Ghostface's most recent (Pretty Toney) album was a very fine record.


For my next 10 posts (including this) I will try and write in e-prime so as not to offend what I have interpreted to be your beliefs in both (a) linear materialist causality & (b) the immorality of objective "is" statements when decribing one's musical tastes. It is my highly subjective belief that Ghostface's flow has become boring, and also that all of the Wu emcees sound much tamer and less raw than they used to. When I think about it I also believe that anyone with some basic knowledge of hip-hop history would realize that many of the beats on Pretty Toney have been played out and that the producers have not been digging too deep at all. When I think about it I usually believe that they probably concentrate too much on the results (of money, sex and the rush of a large crowd) rather then the actual creative process (inspiration, enthusiasm, reflecting reality, representing) compared to their earlier work.

I have forwarded your post to Meth, Ghostface and Capadonna, and they have informed me they will also refrain from the objective use of language in any future recordings.

-bruno-
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:41 / 03.06.05
oh and last but not least this
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:47 / 03.06.05
(Can't everyone just be nice to each other? This isn't a competition to see who knows the Wu-Tang best, it's a thread about much we all love RZA. Well, that's how I choose to interpret it.)
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:54 / 03.06.05
? what happens if you start to suspect your whole life is a fiction suit. an eveything just reinforces that for you over an over.
 
 
Chiropteran
17:40 / 03.06.05
? what happens if you start to suspect your whole life is a fiction suit. an eveything just reinforces that for you over an over.

Then you read The Wu-Tang Manual.
 
 
LVX23
17:49 / 03.06.05
I've had a copy of the Manual since it came out. A nice survey of esoterica melded to the Clan's agitprop marketblast and obligatory master-ego-bating.

Bruno, I too dug your earlier post, especially the notion of hypersigilic reality shaping through MC fictsuits and trance-rap gnosis. Fiction manifests reality every single fucking moment of our lives.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
20:12 / 03.06.05
? what happens if you start to suspect your whole life is a fiction suit. an eveything just reinforces that for you over an over.

Welcome to interesting times.
 
 
Seth
05:20 / 04.06.05
Sorry dude. The geological survery team of ghetto rock returned samples that clearly proved Iron Flag, The W, No Said Date and the live record to be cracking albums. Indeed, the rockamic structure of Supreme Clientele, The Pretty Toney Album, Birth of a Price and Theodore Unit's 718 were conclusively proved to be as dense and volatile as any classic Wu-banger. I thought they were teaching this shit in schools. Regardless, I thought it my duty to keep you up to date on the latest findings of science.

Remember: GFK spits four hundred flows a second. That as much as 70% more than the average MC, and a clear 10% more than his nearest competitor.
 
 
Bruno
07:14 / 04.06.05
just some random semi-coherent thoughts about hiphop music, paradigms, aeonics, etc.

Although Kool Herc was born in Jamaican, and to an extent so was the DJ/sound-system culture - which can be said to be the birthplace of hip-hop, I think most of the musical roots of hip-hop lie in the US (or Africa depending how back you want to take it). I was wondering about New Orleans, since many people there speak french does it have anything to do with Haiti?

From what I understand, the rhythms of jazz begin in New Orleans after the US civil war. (correct me if i'm wrong) Marching band drums (the kick-snare-high hat combination plus toms and cymbals which has become the standard) reutilized/detourned by the former slaves (who always had some sort of music but from what I have heard early blues has no drums, or am i mistaken?), and from there you get to rhythm and blues, swing, be-bop, rocknroll and Funk.
What does Funk mean? What is funky? Is it a feeling? Difficult to define but linked to the body, dance, sex; "if you fake it your nose will grow", to me its essence its religious but immanent, not transcendental; a truer trance than so-called "trance". "Gospel" music and the inspiration/possession involved there influenced James Brown's singing (if it can be called singing and not screaming, grunting, rapping and so on).
In opposition to that you get the very square, unsyncopated machinelike Kraftwerk & Yellow Magic Orchestra sound, which Bambaataa was into more than the other founders it seems - the drum machine and the digital sounds were embraced, to an extent because they symbolise the future, cybernetics, outer space, science fiction and so on. The space stuff goes back to Sun Ra (who was a hermetic magician in the most rigidly defined sense of the word no doubt; the arkestra were his cult living in a big house together and weren't allowed to have sex), his abstractness and transcendentalism however probably didnt fit in well with the physical needs of people, who needed a return to earth! - From there comes p-funk and the cosmic mothership connection mixed with dirt, bridging Space and Earth (Space being the far-out solos and so on, the mental; Earth being dance, sex, sweat, the physical form). (Note the nation of islam officially believes that Elijah Muhammed is not dead but that he is on a spaceship). Funkadelic's philosophy has a deepness I still havent grasped fully. From them to Bambaataa, the difference is probably machines as instruments - Like a Dub engineer, the DJ/producer works the boundaries between himself and a machine, from the Technics 1200s to the 808s, then MPCs and SL1200s and finally computers; well the way I see things now, although there is nothing wrong with some digital elements I feel that the computer mentality has stolen the Soul and to a large extent producers sound too similar to each other, too square and mechanical like a digital marching band. (just my opinion yeah dont take it personal).

Gypsy Lantern,
You mentioned interesting things i didn't know about and will try and read up on...the difference in syncretism between haiti and jamaica makes sense, but are there any polytheist elements in Jamaican folk religions? What kind of religious elements were involved at Pinnacle?

Do you know much about hand-drumming and dancing and their religious functions in sub-saharan africa? I am looking for recordings but dont really know where to begin. Also the pre-reggae jamaican stuff you mentioned, kumina and count ossie.

-bruno
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:37 / 05.06.05
"What you reap is what you sow" or the law of karma, which I assume you dont believe in.

A strange assumption to make - could you tell me on what evidence you are basing this assumption?

I didn't ask you to explain the concept of karma or to tell me that you've experienced it or to provide examples suggesting that members of the Wu-Tang believe in it. I asked: In what way(s) have they been irresponsible, and in what way(s) has it "come back to hit them"? Please illustrate cause and effect...

Whenever you're ready.

Biggie said that he wanted to die on both Ready to Die and Suicidal Thoughts, maybe others I do not remember. Is that unpacked?

Not really. "Unpack" means "explain further and in more detail". You seem to be presenting a very simplistic interpretation of both the content of Biggie's music, and the relationship between that content and the artist's subsequent death. Some Biggie tracks deal with depression and bleak, nihilistic feelings of despair ('Suicidal Thoughts' - interestingly, nowhere on the song 'Ready To Die' does Biggie say he actively wants to die - rather he says that if death comes, he is ready - much like Hamlet - or a samurai - yada yada yada). He is neither the first nor the last artist to make records that express feelings of despair to the point of suicidal thoughts, and the majority of these artists are still alive and well. If a tablod newspaper made a lazy connection between, say, Kurt Cobain's music and his suicide, many of us would roll our eyes in understandable frustation. But Biggie didn't even kill himself - he was murdered. Do you think that all musicians who make records that deal with feelings of anger, sadness and despair are somehow contributing to the likelihood that they will be the victim of a violent crime? Because that's not exactly consistent with my understanding of the concept of karma.

Maybe you didn't understand what I meant by another level when it comes to the names. I meant that they play around with 'fictionsuits' on another level.

Do you mean that they're familiar with the concept of the fictionsuit as described by Grant Morrison? I suppose that's possible, although I'm not aware of any references to Morrison comics in Wu lyrics, and they usually tend to namecheck their favourite bits of pop culture. Perhaps you mean 'fictionsuit' more broadly, in the sense of a created persona which the artist adopts for a purpose. It's certainly true that some of the Wu-Tang do this.

Most notably, RZA's relationship to Bobby Digital is a great example of this: Bobby Digital was conceived in part as a way for RZA to externalise certain 'negative' elements of his own personality - the lustful, violent id - in order to cleanse himself of that side of himself. The experiment failed - Bobby is still alive and well on RZA's Birth Of A Prince - but it's more interesting for doing so (the tension between Bobby and Prince Rakeem is, to my mind, more interesting than a whole album of 'positive', wise RZA would have been).

But not all of the Wu-Tang do this - some of them do nothing beyond adopting more than one name. And there are plenty of other rappers who do it as well - for example, Eminem/Slim Shady/Marshall Mathers is a strange trinity to say the least, not exactly coherent but more specific than, say, the differences behind Method Man, Johnny Blaze and Iron Lung (which are essentially different names for the same persona). Others, such as Andre 3000's Johnny Vulture persona, or Noreaga's Melvyn Flint, are evocative of certain ideas in a broad sense, but no broader than Kool Keith's various personae. So again, I'd dispute that it's the Wu and Keith on one level and everybody else below them - to me this seems more the result of certain outdated mid-t-late-90s ideas about sub-genres in hip-hop than any close examination of how personae are used.
 
 
Bruno
20:15 / 05.06.05
Flyboy you said In what way(s) have they been irresponsible, and in what way(s) has it "come back to hit them"? Please illustrate cause and effect rather than providing examples of irresponsible things they have done and bad things that have happened to them without providing a connection that isn't merely speculative.

From this I inferred that you dont believe in karma. "Illustrate cause and effect", what does this mean then, all I can do is provide examples and speculate. I cant prove karma to you, Im not God. God is the original asiatic black man hahaha.

The MC plays a social role. The MC takes and gives from his social environment; both a spokesperson for the streets and at the same time "its the underground sound that designs the steets" (Freddie Fox). That is a responsibility. The Wu seem to be getting lazier with their lyrics, and overemphasizing the materialist side of things, letting the violent-id side you mentioned take over maybe. Or maybe I would say the problem is too much ego and not enough I-ness. I interpret that as bad karma because that kids are learning this ego shit as values. Whereas the earlier stuff seemed more balanced (between 'positive' and 'negative'; uplifting vs describing shit as it is), but at the same time more insane and wild. Now they seem unbalanced but not insane, they sound tamer. A good MC should be insane but balanced do you get me. Of course i am just speculating yeah.

re biggie: I listened to the album again yesterday and the clearest example is Everyday Struggle "I dont wanna live no more, sometimes I hear death knocking on the front door". So he was asking for it very clearly. Any connection between that and his murder is speculative yeah. Didnt mention karma in relation to biggie. I also speculate that the energy on that album is stronger than most. Sorry for not using more accurate language. Also the shit he says about his mother broke a big taboo, more energy there.
I asked you do you MC sing or use incantations. Dont be shy.

re fictionsuits: i guess i didnt choose words well, it was an attempt to use the shared vocabulary used on here. I meant the MC-persona/self-mythologizing. You are right that some wu members dont really change persona with the name. But e.g. Masta Killa works on many levels
Masta can be the detourned authority i mentioned, like Lord, King, Duke etc
Or Masta Killa means he kills mastas, he's a rebellious slave
or master killer is a kung fu movie, the kung fu/warrior aspect that a bunch of them have.
plus the way the name is marked by wrong spelling. That is just one name from one of the least visible of the clan.In general the wu seem to be a lot more sophisticated with their names and roles than most. I'm up for discussing other wu personas and names, it might be interesting. What the fuck does Inspecta Deck mean. I havent really listened to much outcast or noreaga. Kool Keith has something like 20 personalities, some of them have costumes. They fight with each other. He wins hahaha. I have no clue what mid-t-late-90s ideas about sub-genres in hip-hop you refer to please explain.

-bruno
 
 
The Falcon
23:07 / 05.06.05
Inspectah Deck just means he's a sussed DJ - check it, his few productions/co-credits are largely very good.

"And you'll be lyin', and he know you lyin' - And he'll take you to court after that. 'Cos he the Inspectah."

Seems fairly self-explanatory. I'm definitely into this notion; it'd be a lie to say my personal mythology/'meism'(- Coupland) didn't contains swathes of cribbed Wu - and specifically Rza - stuff, along with the GM gear I got into latterly.

Didn't know of the book, at the very least, so that's a bonus.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:25 / 13.06.05
From this I inferred that you dont believe in karma. "Illustrate cause and effect", what does this mean then

The definition of karma as I and Miriam-Webster.com understand it is "the force generated by a person's actions [cause] held in Hinduism and Buddhism to perpetuate transmigration and in its ethical consequences to determine the nature of the person's next existence [effect]".

The definition which you provide is "what you reap [effect] is what you sow [cause]".

re biggie: I listened to the album again yesterday and the clearest example is Everyday Struggle "I dont wanna live no more, sometimes I hear death knocking on the front door". So he was asking for it very clearly.

Are you aware of what the phrase "asking for it" actually means? It tends to imply that a person got what they deserve, or mean that they literally want something to happen. Do you believe that all musicians who express feelings of suicidal depression in their lyrics deserve or literally want to be murdered? If not, what makes Biggie different?

I asked you do you MC sing or use incantations. Dont be shy.

I only sing, MC and use incantations in the shower. But this is of no relevance to this discussion, as this is about our analysis of other people's music rather than our own. I am yet to be convinced that your own experience of making music has given you any special insight into the music of the artists being discussed.

I have no clue what mid-t-late-90s ideas about sub-genres in hip-hop you refer to please explain.

In the mid-to-late 1990s, it was common for some people who didn't really like or listen to much other contemporary hip hop to venerate the Wu-Tang and Kool Keith (especially in his Dr Octagon guise). There are still those who have not yet managed to shift out of this paradigm.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:59 / 13.06.05
i like this afu - ra, bloke and saul williams an qwel, i am finding wu tang hard to get into, somebody give me a lead.
 
 
Seth
16:17 / 13.06.05
The manual's on order. I'll contribute more when it arrives.
 
 
Bruno
18:32 / 13.06.05
Flyboy:
Do you believe that all musicians who express feelings of suicidal depression in their lyrics deserve or literally want to be murdered? If not, what makes Biggie different?

Want; a difficult word. Who knows what they want. What makes biggie different: Biggie created the character, who said he wanted to die, and 'became' the character. In my opinion the energy in his voice is more powerful than most. LVX called it a "hypersigil", call it what you want. I think the point is pretty clear. This is all speculative. You can agree or disagree or none of the above.

I asked if you MCed etc because in my experience most people dont feel comfortable singing things like "I dont want to live no more". Lyrics or incantations affect you, on some level anyway, depending on how much you identify with the subject, ranging from "knowing" you are being fake or joking, to being convinced that your "shit is real".

I brought up Kool Keith for the self-mythologizing. Dr Octagon has some very good songs but it gets a little boring. What passes for hip-hop now is usually an R&B beat with some guy who can't flow talking on top. What American MCs & producers from the past 5-10 years do you like flyboy?

Gone and forgotten:
am finding wu tang hard to get into, somebody give me a lead.

Wu Tang Forever - a good place to start, all 10 of them, lots of different flows and styles, ranging from automatic-writing style to the visually descriptive to the mystical & political. Good beats, sounds more computerized than their older ones.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:33 / 13.06.05
What passes for hip-hop now is usually an R&B beat with some guy who can't flow talking on top.

Right, remember you asked me what I meant by outdated mid-90s ideas about genre? Can I divert your attention this way?
 
 
Bruno
09:57 / 14.06.05
i will continue this discussion there flyboy.
 
  

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