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More Moore, a little a' Miller?

GogMickGog

14:35 / 21.05.05

Boys and ghouls, decision time..

unti some magic money comes pouring in I'm left in a very hard place, and i need your help...

Which of these seminal batman jobbys is best, "Killing Joke", or "Dark Knight returns"?
Cos at the moment, it's gotta be between the two for something to tide me over..

answers?

osymandus

15:00 / 21.05.05

WEll , if your straped for cash , id just take both from your local library and say you lost them works for me !!

Only kidding Killing joke , Return of the Dark Knight is a longer read " . But killing Joke give you more to chew over .

Billuccho!

15:51 / 21.05.05

I'd go for Dark Knight, but then, I've never read Killing Joke, either. Dark Knight is probably a more seminal work, and it's very very good.

The Falcon

18:36 / 21.05.05

Dark Knight is much better.

Alan doesn't lie when he says Killing joke is one of his worst books; I've not read Violator v. Badrock, but that's what he says.

sleazenation

20:07 / 21.05.05

Personally, I think Batman: Year One beats them both - Miller writing before he drowned in his own excesses and brilliant Davis Mazzucchellii artwork.

Alan Moore has been quite vocal in his own dissatisfaction with the killing joke and it is quite a bit shorter than the Dark Knight Returns.

The Falcon

22:24 / 21.05.05

48 pages, Alan said. That's not even a graphic novel.

I'd second Year One, which has just come out in a tasty hardcover, and which I don't have. It is best.

This Sunday

22:43 / 21.05.05

'Killing Joke' was just that, for me, a joke. It's funny, just relative enough to get you thinking for half-a-second before you laugh, but otherwise... why is Moore so loved, again?

I have a soft spot for Miller, even when it's not-so-good Miller, which seems hypocritical in connection to my general displeasure with Moore (who has some pieces I adore and much I just don't care for), and his Bats stories tend to be pretty good. I liked 'Dark Knight Strikes...' better than '... Returns' but that's a rare judgement, I'm sure.

Actually, to jump from 'Year One' to '... Strikes Again' is a beautiful experience.

Even Moore dismissing his Bat-book, so take that into account.

Krug

10:57 / 22.05.05

Ignore all these Killing Joke naysayers. It's solid writing and stunnign Brian Bolland art. I do prefer Year One over DKR.

Spaniel

13:06 / 22.05.05

Dark Knight is seminal, imaginative, powerful, playful and epic. The Killing Joke is short, and not much fun at all. Alan thought he could use Batman to explore the nature of obsession and madness, and ended up with something a ten-year-old *might* think of as sophisticated and for grown ups.

If that sounds like your bag, get The Killing Joke.

DKR changed comics, Killing Joke really really didn't, for that reason alone I say go with Dark Knight.

Oh yeah, you might want to read this

Spaniel

13:08 / 22.05.05

Ooh, I should add that I love most of Moore's work. Killing Joke is a rare exception.

And, yeah, Year One is great. Born Again's pretty bloody good too.

sleazenation

16:06 / 22.05.05

something a ten-year-old *might* think of as sophisticated and for grown ups.

The trouble is that I think the above could reasonably used to describe altogether too many comics including Dark Knight Returns. Yes DKR's helped change comics, but I still feel ambivilent about exactly what it changed. There are more finely crafted stories, more influential stories and ones with far greater ambition than DKR...

Spaniel

16:38 / 22.05.05

Well, Mick could pick up something written by Daniel Clowes or the Hernandez brothers instead, but I imagine he wants sooperheroes, and if it's sooperheroes you want you can't do much better than DKR, imo.

GogMickGog

18:11 / 22.05.05

Oooh ooh, I love Daniel Clowes!!

I'm not just a superheros man, a chum of mine (Mr. Totem) has got me into Quimby mouse too..now there's a comic to love!

It's just that both are on display in Borders, and I thought I'd give one a gander..I read a bit here and there..I loved Preacher, books of magic, invisibles (natch), big fan of Transmetropolitan, mucho Moore, some Appleseed, and a wee dab of R. Crumb, as well as lots I'm sure I've forgotten

sleazenation

18:32 / 22.05.05

With comics, as with books and films, I feel the best approach is to just go wandering through the library (and any second hand book shops you can find) reading as widely as possible. Try everything you can find and you are sure to uncover some real gems. Frequently the path less traveled is the more rewarding... As time goes on I'm finding a greater appreciation for all sorts of comics, most recently Frank Hampson's work on the Dan Dare strips in the Eagle...

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

00:28 / 23.05.05

Personally, I think Batman: Year One beats them both - Miller writing before he drowned in his own excesses and brilliant Davis Mazzucchellii artwork.

Agreed. "Killing Joke" is a glorified annual, and Dark Knight is one that can wait. If you want solid Batman writing, you can't do better than Year One, with the best art the series has seen. The next one I'd get is the Englehart trade that reprints his run. It's a completely different take than the current "Batman is a psycho" that has been the focus of the comic since Dark Knight.

sleazenation

08:21 / 23.05.05

ninth art's recent review of Year One

Haus of Mystery

11:13 / 23.05.05

I can't actually beleive we're talking about DK and KJ again. For what it's worth, the answer is Oranges. Always better than Lemons.

Spaniel

14:10 / 13.06.05

Well, it is possible to argue for one thing over another. The oranges and lemons thing has its limits, you know.

Slim

17:18 / 13.06.05

Oranges > Lemons

Year One > DKR > The Killing Joke

bio k9

06:37 / 14.06.05

You can't make lemonade out of oranges.

Lemons>>>>>Oranges

Haus of Mystery

08:15 / 14.06.05

But the use of both is positively encouraged in Pimms.

So the answer is therefore:

Youngblood is the best.

8===>Q: alyn

09:41 / 14.06.05

Who is this Alan Moore schmuck? I've read Frank Miller's Daredevil (overrated) and Wolverine (awesome), but DC Comics is for pussies. I would never read any DC comic. Batman is a total pedophile if you ask me. So in my opinion you are throwing your money away. You should buy Origin by Joe Quesada, it's a stunningly original story about how Wolverine became a man. That's good comics. None of this hoo-ha about butlers or whatever. What kind of totally stupid superhero has a butler?!?

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