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Crowley's Book of Lies

 
  

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Lord Switch
09:37 / 24.05.05
Liber XXV

Orgasm + having just drawn the sigil/ritual itself = the moment of intense gnosis.

Eating of sexual fluids: Eating the Godhead/P.A.N. and at the same time breaking a Taboo, an important practice of the Vama marg.

it will then not matter anything if i is "right or wrong" from a Taoist perspective to actually ejaculate, because the Thelemic practice says that it is right.
In the same way as Christianity says that Masturbation or Onanism, is wrong.

Besdies, correct me if I am wrong, but this thread is a discussion of the book of lies, not Taoist practices?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:53 / 24.05.05
Could someone explain a bit more clearly as to what the point of all this is?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
10:47 / 24.05.05
Gypsy Lantern's right: what can you use the techniques talked about here to acheive?
 
 
osymandus
11:09 / 24.05.05
Given the rather large infulence Taoism had on Crowley it maybe, rather relevent to discuess technigues and ideas that possible infulenced his righting of the book.

Also from a the point of view i percieve as being my Thelemic point of view the terchniques described above would not be right or wrong either , just mearly expressions of the practioners will and/or weather they maybe succesful to the intenet.
 
 
---
11:34 / 24.05.05
Tai Chi Chuan is that act of balance. It is the one thing Crowley never learned and he has stated he wish he had, because he felt it was the most powerful form of magic.

Where did you read this? Curious to see the source.


I was thinking exactly the same thing. I'd love to see the source for that too because that's interesting if it's true.

Even if he didn't actually say it, I could see him having a lot of respect for it, seeing as he thought that art was one of the highest forms of magic. I think Tai Chi is a very artistic form in itself.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
12:00 / 24.05.05
More to the point, how could Crowley say - with any level of credibility - that Tai Chi Chuan was "the highest form of magic" if he had never learned it?
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:03 / 24.05.05
Critical review of Crowley's Yi King by Steve Marshall, author of The Mandate of Heaven
 
 
---
13:48 / 24.05.05
Morpheus said that he 'felt' it was the highest form of magic, probably because of the way Tai Chi distributes Chi around the body and allows you to get a better and better sense of it the more you practise I guess.

I'm thinking of starting it soon and thought it was interesting, but thinking about it I don't really think it is because I take that as a given anyway. Kind of like meditation and magic itself though, you're not going to turn into any type of adept unless you've put a lot of years of hard work into it.

Talk about going off-topic anyway, I think I'll leave this thread now.
 
 
Morpheus
17:23 / 24.05.05
I read it in the Autohag. I think he was impressed with the practice of Tai Chi because of the physical and less shen like quality it had. But anyone who actually practices for more then a year or so will tell you it goes beyond that. Crowley didn't like it when his good freind went to spend the rest of his life in a buddist temple and honestly, taoism and buddism are two seperate mountains. Taoism for him may have been the great learning he felt he couldn't under take for any of number of reasons. My great grand teacher drank and was an opiate addict and still managed to become the greatest teacher of my generation. Every pratice is a Tao and the mind/shen leads the chi. So magic has it's real application explained in that statement.
In later years he realized that the "guardian angel" he sought for so long was in fact leading him into an illusion of spiritual security that was false. He rejects later alot of what was written in that book of lies and the workings in eygpt were then also questioned. The Tao of Tai Chi Chuan is something he felt he lacked and maybe it would have opened a secret within himself he couldn't possibly understand any other way. Any adept can feel that. He most likely would have been a good student, but then again he most likely would not have been taught at that time. The school was very small.
I could argue the ejeculation trip and how anyone who gains energy after...is fooling themselves, but as the saying goes,
I am not a hook, don't hang your dead meat on me.
 
 
Charlie's Horse
21:27 / 24.05.05
He rejects later alot of what was written in that book of lies

I assume that by 'that book of lies' you mean the Book of Lies, Murph. OK, so Crowley rejected his book - so what? Just because he wrote the damn thing, does that make him the end-all be-all master of its interpretation and meaning? I find that once written, literature tends to become independent of an artist, in the sense that the author's opinion of her own work doesn't have some special authority behind it that makes it better than any other well-reasoned reader's view. Look at George Lucas - he felt that the original Star Wars trilogy (Episodes 4-6) desperately needed some revisions, new scenes, fancy CGI effects, and whatnot. These revisions weren't needed, at least in my opinion. He created these movies, but that didn't make his later opinions the one true way. His later involvement is not 'right' simply because he made the damn movies. Same with Crowley - just because he later rejected this particular book, doesn't mean we should on the basis of Crowley's supreme authority. And considering that you haven't even read the damn thing, who are you to tell us that it is wrong, and have any weight behind your opinion? Also, have you or anyone else considered another thread for the oft unrelated topics that have been broached?

Jesus. Hey-Zeus, even.

OK, anyway - the Book of Lies - Brilliant and Bullshit. Some of it is chock full of quasi-Freudian sexist shite. I mean, "Life is as ugly and necessary as the female body" (chapter 35), "the jewel... excludes... lower animals, including woman" (chapter 53 commentary), and "the female is... seperated from the male, in order to reproduce the male in a superior form" (I guess (chapter 35 commentary). That's some crap, eh? Common enough belief at the time, but that don't mean it ain't crap. Then there's "this chapter is an apology for the universe" (chapter 57 commentary). Can someone explain that to me? "All place is wrong" (same chapter) - commenting on the supposedly fallen nature of our reality? Good times.

Still, he pulls out some interesting points - chapter 41, which basically makes a case against looking for answers in the book, but advocates that we look for them in practice, in the work itself. Crowley's insistence that we avoid asking him questions despite his self-proclaimed authority reminds me of the quote, 'ask no questions, and I'll tell no lies' - basically, any attempt to wrestle Crowley's answers out of his head will pollute our own work, through the subversion of our own purposes and answers by replacing them with Crowley's. Another good chapter is numbah 34, the Smoking Dog, in which Crowley describes 'the Comedy of Pan:' 'that man should think he hunteth, while those hounds [Love and Death] hunt him.' To me, this is a wonderful inversion of my normal idea of love, that being something that I 'pursue,' even though it's rather debateable whether or not I choose whom I love. The Tragedy of Man is "when facing Love and Death he turns to bay.' That is, he attacks as a 'boar,' attempting to destroy God's eternal hounds, a fruitless task. Crowley advocates that we "rob the creator of his cruel sport." The only methodology for such that I can think of involves embracing Love and Death as allies, through whatever means you can find. The exact method of such acts lies elsewhere - what exercises exist for such? Meditating on death? Being alive, and thinking Big Thoughts? What practical acts does this book inspire, other than the Mass of the Phoenix (44), and eating sexual fluids, which we've discussed in some detail? I ask because I didn't really read the book with that in mind, though I'm trying again now.
 
 
Morpheus
04:05 / 25.05.05
And considering that you haven't even read the damn thing, who are you to tell us that it is wrong, and have any weight behind your opinion?

I did read it a very very long time ago, and I never said he was wrong. The comment unfortunately was a joke that was not taken for that. What I think he meant by rejecting much of it, is that he lost faith in the channeled godhead that assisted him in writing it. Aiwas...is that the guy? Anyway that guy was an asshole and later in his years he knew more of it's true nature. He none the less seemed to think it was the greatest or at least one of his greatest books.
The Smoking Dog chapter is really good as I remember, and I think he is correct in the assumption that man thinks he is hunting love and death...but I would say they are just waiting, Love and death haven't hunted me to my knowing. I have let love die...doesn't feel good.
 
 
Morpheus
04:19 / 25.05.05
The exact method of such acts lies elsewhere - what exercises exist for such? Meditating on death? Being alive, and thinking Big Thoughts?

I think he meant that you should live life fearlessly. Understand that a soul is forever and so love is always there and death isn't...always. Some people may have thought that you should instead..rape and kill as they may have started to interpret the meaning of wrestle from god. Alot of people still think he killed children as sacrifices. Nonsense.
 
 
ghadis
07:15 / 25.05.05
Quick post as i have to dash

Charlies Horse...
'Also, have you or anyone else considered another thread for the oft unrelated topics that have been broached?'

I don't really think that people have gone that much off topic. I may disagree with almost everything that Morpheus is saying but it's certainly an interesting discussion.

Morpheus...
'What I think he meant by rejecting much of it, is that he lost faith in the channeled godhead that assisted him in writing it. Aiwas...is that the guy?'

I think you're getting books mixed up. Unless you're making another joke of course, in which case maybe do some of those smiley things. Jokes that seem obvious when you're writing them lose their punch on the screen sometimes.
 
 
illmatic
07:56 / 25.05.05
I would be enormously surprised if Crowley had any knowledge of Tai Chi at all, being as it only became known to most Westerners in what - the 70s? - I know he travelled but I don't recall any references to it in any of his writings I've read. I've not read the Hag though Can someone provide a quote or page ref.?
 
 
Morpheus
02:54 / 29.05.05
I don't have the book here and so I can't provide the referal to the quotes.
I think you're getting books mixed up.

How am I wrong here, I wasn't joking.
 
 
Frank Fress
08:58 / 29.05.05
Heh heh heh. Good one Morpheus.
 
 
---
09:56 / 29.05.05
I've hardly read any Crowley so I'm not ashamed to admit I was a little confused too, but after googling I found that you're getting mixed up with The Book of the Law Morpheus. That's the one channeled from Aiwass.
 
 
alejandrodelloco
12:10 / 29.05.05
If you need a better idea of what we are referring to, check the link in the first post.
 
  

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