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Getting started

15:54 / 11.05.05

Now it seems to me that there's some of you "in-the-know" as to how things work in the industry...

I have a couple of ideas (doesn't everyone?), mish-mashes of pop-cultural oddness, and I was wondering how y'all think would be the best way to get them seen and heard, and maybe setup links with a like-minded artist etc.

Thanks

16:12 / 11.05.05

The best way to get seen and heard is to just make comics. It really is that simple - and you learn from doing, so the chances are the more you do the better you'll get...

You don't necessarily have to be the best artist in the world if your writing is that good it will shine past the artwork. Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore and Grant Morrison all made their own comics before they teamed up with artists...

17:39 / 11.05.05

Sleaze's advice is the best there is: if you want to make comics, make comics. It's one of the easiest and cheapest of the mass media to self-produce works for. If you do good work and you put it out in public, readers will come to you.

18:24 / 11.05.05

Listen to Ray - he knows what he's talking about. He wrote and drew (and when he couldn't draw, he LEARNED to - that's dedication) and published and pitched his own comics, and now look at him - writing a series for Vertigo.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

19:13 / 11.05.05

Agree with all of this stuff...the other good thing about just DOING comics and putting them out there is that you get learn about how to make good comics by doing bad ones. The more you do, the more you learn, and if you are getting better, you'll look at your old work after a year or so, and see all the mistakes you made.

19:19 / 11.05.05

Hey Mick-Travis, it's also quite important to get to know as many people as you can, networking and such. I'm a comic writer slowly working my way and have been through this for the past year or so. There are many helpful people out there, many sites and forums that you could visit that could give you a leg up. There are quite a few helpful books as well. I could email / PM you a list if you like. Are you a writer / artist, or both? What exactly are you thinking of working on?

And to bow down to all who have answered above, yes, "doing it" is "THE" to start. Many don't even get to that point, don't let your ideas waste away.

20:33 / 11.05.05

Here's a little hint, go to Caption and get to know people in the amateur scene - and perhaps grab the lovely Paul Gravett who always seems to be around. They don't bite. Ooh, just noticed, I'm behind the "a" in that picture.

Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown

21:26 / 11.05.05

Totally agree with all above steps. Attaching the following caveat: I am an amateur, I am not in the industry (as much as I'd like to be), but I have heard and read a few things. Feel free to scream at me for shooting my mouth off if you wish.

If you can't draw, find an artist (or learn to draw...things I never knew about Ray...). There are apparently, at least according to Bendis, a lot of boards for that sort of thing. Barbelith is probably a decent place to start, but there's also apparently some of it going over at jinxworld.com.

For style and suchlike, Eisner's "Comics and Sequential Art" and McCloud's "Understanding Comics" are, to my understanding, almost required reading these days. This is what I've heard from people outside the industry, but Bendis was also pushing them big.

My final bit of totally amateur advice is to check out the submission guidelines on the pages of major companies. Image and Oni will only look at your stuff if you are, or are working with, an artist, but Marvel and Dark Horse are looking for writers...and god only knows what DC wants these days.

But yes...at the end of the day, the best thing you can do is write. Just hurl your ideas down on paper as soon as you think about them.

Oh, yeah...if anyone wants the notes I took from Bendis' workshop, message me with your email and I'll send you the Word file. I've actually found them to be kind of useful.

04:07 / 12.05.05

A few other good books.

Story - Robert McKee It's actual about writing scripts for movies, but most of the information applies to any manner of story writing.

DC Comics Guide to Writing - 'Nuff Said

The Idiot's Guide To Creating A Graphic Novel. Touches on all areas of production.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

05:50 / 12.05.05

Marvel and Dark Horse are looking for writers...and god only knows what DC wants these days.

Marvel is only considering writers who have either gotten credits in other fields (screenwriting or novels) or have worked in comics already. Dark Horse may say they are looking for writers, but the majority of what they publish is creator owned. DC is recruiting people with solid credits as well for the most part.

The vast majority of publishers are looking for a complete package when they sign on to a comic book...established writers can come in with a pitch to one of the bigger companies, but anything other than DC or Marvel will pretty much want you to bring them a series ready to go, with all of the creative team in place.

A cheap way to create comics is to do webstrips. Its a way to get your work in front of a lot of people, webstrips have a solid backbone of fans and promotional opportunities, and publishers are starting to look at them as viable for publication (PvP, MegaTokyo and Sinfest all have books available now).

06:24 / 12.05.05

Marvel have that weird "write us a letter and tell us why you want to write for Marvel and if we're impressed we'll get in touch -ps- DON'T CALL US WE'LL CALL YOU" thing - has anyone actually sent them a letter through this?

I'd also recommend Writers on Comics Scriptwriting as a good read, maybe light on how-to compared to other books, but inspirational no doubt.

And in my googletrawls I found the text of a speech given by Jim Shooter (EIC of Marvel in the 80s) about how to write comics - I haven't read the whole thing myself, but I figured Shooter kind of knows/knew what he's talking about, at least coming from a certain perspective.

And then there's the Permanent Damage column by Steven Grant, who's doing a step-by-step intermittent how-to (first installment dated March 9th)that looks pretty helpful.

I'm kinda keen to get some work out there too, and have been trying to find some artists to work on a script of mine. It's been a bit difficult, down here in Australia, to find an artist whose work I like enough to show my script, but who isn't too busy on their own work to give it a go. I'm not sure if that's arrogant or not - those writers among us - what are you looking for when you go searching for an artist to do your script? Do you have a fixed idea of what you want, or are you just happy to find anyone who'll give it a go? Do you have a kind of internal "audition" process you put onto artists that you are checking out?

I think I'm going to concentrate on generating a few more scripts for the time being (at the moment I only have one, but of course IDEAS for lots... ain't it the way?) and see how that pans out.

m.

09:32 / 12.05.05

Thanks for all the advice, I knew Barbelith would be a good place to ask.

Basically, I have an idea similar to "the bridge" by Ian Banks, in that it'll be a surreal journey through the mind of someone in a coma, pitched as a battle between two opposing sides. Because the images will all be drawn from his consciousness, they'll take all kinda forms.

One image I have is of a fleet of giant sheep, men emerging from ladders etc.

ahem...

Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown

04:47 / 13.05.05

Matsya:

I have a friend who got the letter back from Marvel. Basically if they want you they send you a form letter (at least I got the impression it was a form letter...it certainly wasn't personal) that basically says to send them a sample of your work that doesn't involve Marvel's copywritten characters.

20:11 / 14.05.05

I started by making mini-comics and just getting them out there, and using them as an inexpensive (for both myself and the readers) way to keep making work and putting it in people's faces. From there, I did some anthology work and now I have my own series coming out at the end of the year from an indy publisher. All in the space of a few years.

The above advice of keep making comics is the best thing you'll ever hear, take it seriously.. Start small, don't start with a giant epic saga that you figure will take 300 pages cause odds are you won't finish it, and even if you did, it'd probably suck. try mastering the 8-10 page short story. With every new story I actually finished, I learned something new that informed the next. not that i'm any super-badass or anything, but that's my two cents.

00:56 / 23.05.05

Bard: Did your friend follow up with a writing sample, and if so, what was the outcome of that?

m.

Bard: One-Man Humaton Hoedown

03:05 / 26.05.05

To my knowledge he's sent it in. We shall see where it goes from there.

-

06:50 / 27.05.05

a distinction made by a DC writer at a con, between artists and writers: artists are very open in sharing their work, technique, tools, etc--friendly. writers are like enemies cause they want to keep their ideas secret and not stolen. and how does a writer break in? pitching stories. so expect to get burned, ripped off, screwed. uncredited for a good idea.

now i was seeing this from the artist's side and it was pretty surprising. still artists do a bit of the same, working on backgrounds, doing anything to get the foot in the door. if you can get in touch with a pro artist to guide you that is great, i dont know what to say about writers...but networking is definitely important. hit the cons but don't expect to give a writer a script and get a critique on the spot.

as mentioned above the process itself will make you better. looking back on old submissions, they're terrible, but you have to be confident and start somewhere. as for teaming up writer-artist, i think it was Gaiman who said he catered pages to the artist's strengths. likewise penciller-inker combos can help out eachothers weaknesses.

i have given up on the dream job working in comics. self-publishing if i think i have an audience. doing it for myself above anything.