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Buying "classic albums" new and finding some extra song or gushing leaf notes

 
 
All Acting Regiment
11:26 / 11.05.05
For example, I just got a bunch of music off the net, a lot of it reissues/current versions of "classics" from the 70s...and something's been pissing me off.

Every one of them seems to have a bunch of monkeys gushing about the band- take Gang of Four for instance- the inside notes are full of people saying "yeah man...totally inpirational" in x number of different ways and somehow it seems to detract from the record.

OR, theres a crock of "bonus" songs added. I don't like that either. They weren't *meant* to be there, they blur the line between what the album was meant to be.

It's as if somebody's got there first and tinkered with it and thinks they're making it better for you. I don't like it. Am I just sad? What do you think about it?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:30 / 11.05.05
You're just sad. You could easily never read the liner notes ever again. The bonus track issue is a little bit more understandable, I suppose, but still, nobody's forcing you to listen to that, and the rest of the album's still there, isn't it? You just have to remember to stop it after a certain track, which is true of a bunch of otherwise worthwhile albums anyway...
 
 
Spaniel
11:37 / 11.05.05
I dunno, I'm almost always grateful for the addition of quality bonus material. For example, the remastered version of Bowie's Hunky Dory released a few years ago had two extra tracks - both are great and both are pretty obscure. If it wasn't for their addition, I'd probably never get to hear, or own, either tune.

Oooo, and Candidate Reprise (added to the remastered version of Diamond Dogs) is one of favourite tooons EVAR!11!
 
 
Spaniel
11:40 / 11.05.05
How many typos?

Conversely, my SO hates the extra tune on the first Portishead album, so much so that she won't play it.
Admittedly it is hamfistedly jammed into the middle of the CD.
 
 
nedrichards is confused
14:26 / 11.05.05
Yes, have then at the end, preferably after an extra track of 20 seconds of respectufl silence so we can audibly tell that's it's something new now.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:30 / 11.05.05
I have no problem with extra tracks (and yes, liner notes can be easily ignored) AS LONG AS THEY'RE AT THE END OR ON ANOTHER DISC. For me, there's a difference between a "classic album" and an album that's all "classic songs". The tracks are SUPPOSED to go in a particular order... they work best like that. I'm an album man, rather than a track man, it has to be said. If there's extra stuff afterwards, then cool. If it's good, it's a bonus. If it's shit, I won't bother listening to it. But let the album work AS AN ALBUM first, please.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:45 / 11.05.05
Didn't all the Smiths CD reissues have extra tracks shoved into the middle of them, breaking the intended flow?

I'm not really sure that there's a good argument as to why bonus tracks can't come on a second CD. It's not as if it's going to add much - if anything - to the manufacturing cost. Most annoying is the hit single factor, where a one-off single will become a surprise hit and lead to the artist's previous album being rereleased with said single tacked onto the end. See Bjork's Debut for example of such teeth-gnashingly unsuitable treatment.
 
 
rizla mission
15:16 / 11.05.05
Well I tend to think all this stuff is jolly nice for the most part.

I'd be quite annoyed to pick up a re-issued album and not find a booklet jammed with tedious yet irresistable Mojo magazine style blathering and "rare photos", and a few utterly pointless 'mono mixes', 'alternate takes' etc.

All adds to the fun.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:52 / 11.05.05
Yeah, but at least put some dead air between the end of the album proper and the bonus stuff. I'm sure I've said this here before, but Thsi Year's Model is a good example of how to include additional material in a way that doesn't detract from or fiddle with the original collection of songs - fifteen or so seconds of nothing, time enough to let me get up off my arse and turn the thing off if I want to.

Otherwise it's the audio equivalent of those 'Next Week' trailers at the end of TV programs - a sudden intrusion of extra information which isn't supposed to be part of the piece and is potentially damaging to the intended experience. Or a film studio splicing some of the director's early shorts into the end of hir latest film before the credits have rolled.
 
 
Char Aina
17:03 / 11.05.05
i'm with riz.
i wouldn't have known that herbie hancock was into chanting invocations before gigs if headhunters hadnt had the extra bumf in the liner notes.
that, amd thats how i first learned about lee perry burning his own studio down all those years ago.

how they worked out what should go where on the bonus stereo mix of pet sounds fascinates me as well.
 
 
Char Aina
17:04 / 11.05.05
oh, and i'm with sparkie.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
09:31 / 12.05.05
Yeah, I think a lot of it's about the quality of what you get...some of the Fall stuff is priceless.
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
09:48 / 12.05.05
Spatula - AFAIR, only The Smiths and Meat Is Murder had extra tracks added, at the end of side 1, oddly enough (anyone else remember cassettes...? ); This Charming Man and How Soon Is Now?, respectively. How Soon Is Now? totally messed with Meat Is Murder, especially on cassette, as it meant that side 1 was a good deal longer than side 2, but sticking This Charming Man onto The Smiths was, IMHO, a good thing, as the track wasn't on any other Smiths albums (apart from the session version on Hatful Of Hollow), and the album didn't really have that much of a flow to be ruined.
 
 
rizla mission
10:02 / 12.05.05
Has anybody else checked out the new 3-disc edition of "Village Green Preservation Society"? - it's a case in point for the inherent value of loads of extra guff.

Yes, some of the 20 or so bonus tracks are utterly, utterly pointless, but there are at least half a dozen entirely new (well, previously unreleased) songs which are fucking brilliant.

I'm a bit suspicious of the mindset that automatically views the original release of an album as the ultimate, sanctified version that should never be toyed with.

Lest we forget that the mixes and running orders of a lot of 'classic' albums, especially in the '60s, were cobbled together pretty haphazardly with commercial concerns given higher priority than artistic ones - hence the track towards the end of 'Pet Sounds' that's instrumental 'cos the record company insisted on finalising a release date and nobody could get it together to write any lyrics. Hence the original version of 'Marquee Moon' that cuts about 90 seconds off the title track cos it was easier to fit it onto the vinyl that way. And so on.

God I sound like a geek, don't I?
 
 
Brigade du jour
10:04 / 12.05.05
Rizla my friend (slaps your back in a comradely manner) ... you're in fine company!
 
 
astrojax69
04:20 / 16.05.05
i got the 20th anniversary three disc set of layla a while back - the other two discs were jams (about sixteen hours long each!) and a disc of out-takes. but the original album was in order and on one disc.

i think i've listened to the out takes about twice and the jams but a handful fo times...

extra stuff should fuck off to a new space, i rekkun.
 
 
doctorbeck
11:04 / 16.05.05
despite pet sounds being one of the greatest LPs ever I could live with a reissue without sloop john b,love that instrumental at the end though.

personally if it's a classic LP i'd prefer the vinyl, because if i want to hear it how it was meant to be heard then it should be heard in analogue rather than digital, but that may be a whole other thread of geekery altogether.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:27 / 16.05.05
Yes, although I'm in favour of new stuff being separated (there may be many albums where the song order doesn't matter, but there are many where it does), if you're gonna get THAT precious about "classic" albums then don't buy the rereleases- pick up a copy of Record Collector or your local equivalent and try to track down the original.
 
 
snowgoon
12:00 / 16.05.05
I too would suggest that if it bothers you that much then try and track down an original and don't buy the re-issue.

Me? I quite enjoy having extra tracks added at the end of a "classic album", gives it an entire new dimension I think. I wonder what the artists think, is it just the corporate machines cashing in on their back catalogue or .. ohh hang on.. it's a reissue, of COURSE they are cashing in.

Now, what is the positive step out of this discussion?
 
 
rizla mission
07:00 / 17.05.05
But.. 'Sloop John B' is fantastic!!

Well I think it is anyway.
 
 
Seth
08:28 / 17.05.05
I'm a bit suspicious of the mindset that automatically views the original release of an album as the ultimate, sanctified version that should never be toyed with.

The best albums hang together as a whole, they're coherent and have a decided order. There's a beginning, middle and end. The album format has its own strengths, as opposed to the compilation or the single or the EP or the collection of archived material. What we’re talking about here is a pre-existing album with which the listener has built a relationship over time, which is then resold not only as a hybrid of original album and a compilation but as somehow better than the original. It’s the Star Wars Original Trilogy phenomena. Getting up and changing tracks or pressing stop only reinforces that this isn’t the same record you used to love.

Listening to a well paced album from start to finish contextualises songs that you might otherwise not enjoy. I own many albums that are more than the sum of their parts, and a major factor in that is that care and attention has been put into balancing the tracklisting. On reflection there is an analogy to the sacred in this process. A good album has the effect of *embiggening* the range of what you can appreciate. It changes the listener, rather than the listener merely playing their few favourites or being consumer hungry for quantity. Track order and a well judged choice of what to include and not include are vital in this.

Another facet of what makes music so enjoyable is that the object itself can be invested with meaning. Packaging, lyrics, artwork, credits, liner notes etc all go together to create an identity in you that is larger than the music. So I can sympathise with those who return to a much loved album only to find it uncannily different, changed, repackaged but supposedly somehow better than the record they once fetishized. In response to Rizla’s comment that many albums are thrown together with commercial concerns and released sometimes unfinished: it’s possible to fetishise anything.

(Occasionally there are exceptions. Some reissues have been done with such care that songs from the same sessions have been introduced within the track listing in a way that creates new but not necessarily inferior pacing. I’m also not suggesting that people who want more tunes for their cash are in the wrong: you can interact with music however you like. I’m just representing for listening habits that haven’t been given their due here.)

One of the most frequently lacking qualities in bands is a sense of when to stop, of being concise, of knowing what not to play. Too many albums lack cohesion, a sense that this suite is more than just a thrown together selection of what the artist has happened to write in a specific time-frame. Quantity is not always desirable, even if the quality matches what was originally included. As Stoatie says, you can always stick it on a second disc.

My band is halfway through the recording of an album at the moment. It’ll be about ten songs long, maybe forty minutes in length. On the strength of what we’ve done so far it’s going to be a cracker. You can bet your ass we’ll spend ages mixing, playing with artwork, design, picking brilliantly daft song titles, choosing the tracklisting. A crucial element of this is knowing when to stop before the pudding becomes over-egged, to be able to draw the line that says “It is finished.” Once it’s done you can listen to it however you like. If you want to stick songs on mixtapes, change the running order, stick it on shuffle, whatever: that’s cool.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:38 / 17.05.05
Reminds me of something I noticed when CDs first starting taking over from vinyl- bands who were still under pressure to release records at a certain rate, but had a longer format to fill (and presumably thought/were told that fill it they must) started appearing flabbier, less perfect- more filler started creeping in. Possibly this had something to do with the decline of the single as well- what would once have been a 45-minute album with supplementary material available as B-sides became a 70-minute album, including failed experiments and all.
 
 
--
21:18 / 18.05.05
Those recent Cure re-issues are really great, however, I believe that the Manic Street Preachers re-issue of "The Holy Bible" is one of the greatest re-issues of all time.

Frankly, I just like them because of the improved sound quality. It's annoying when I'm listening to a mix CD and you come to a song you like that hasn't been remastered... I have to go crank the volume up so it's the same level as modern songs, but then I have to turn the volume back down again when a newer song comes up.

Hey, when the hell are the old Depeche Mode's albums going to be reissued? I'm looking foward to a remastered "Black Celebration" myself.
 
 
Seth
23:10 / 18.05.05
Sypha has hit upon the secret of good mastering: do it as loud as possible. Something I aim to do with the new Hunting Lodge recordings.
 
  
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