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The rise and rise of nothing

 
 
snowgoon
13:33 / 03.05.05
Some of the HOT bands for this year like Bloc Party, Kaiser Chiefs, The Bravery, the highly rated Doves album, British Sea Powers latest, even Beck all seem to be heading down the same road to blandness. Is it just me?

I've listened to them all a few times now and they just seem.. I dunno.. as if they're bored and can't really be bothered. Where's the emotion? Did they forget what it is to write a "rock" track?

And why is the media so fixated on this type of non-indie indie pop/rock at the moment?
 
 
Bruno
14:15 / 03.05.05
it is a reflection of these comatose times

under capitalism music loses it sacred role, it is sucked of its power and relevence and instead becomes a background noise which gives the mind a space in which to wander; this space is narcotically patterned, a dead end. This has captured most genres of music, modern hip-hop, 'dance', jazz and so on are all equally banal and dead without realizing it. Most have been assimilated by the pop demon. Most of them are hymns to the regressive ego, to alienation, to commodity fetishism.

bland-rock is a good way to describe it, except like you said there is no 'rock' in it,
not in the heavy dionysian rock-n-roll joyful-noise sense.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:15 / 03.05.05
Someone once made the hidous mistake of finding Travis "influential" and it's all gone downhill from there, is the way I picture it. Probably not true, but it's nice and basic.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
07:15 / 04.05.05
I really like the first half of Bloc Party's album, though there isn't much to notice in the second half it's true.

I think the most rebellious thing to do for kids these days is stay well clear of tattoos, drink sensibly, avoid drugs and get an MBA or Accountancy degree, and their music reflects this.
 
 
lonely as a cloud...
07:40 / 04.05.05
I really, really can't stand those kind of bands. While I haven't heard anything by Bloc Party, Kaiser Chiefs, etc. (too much hype for my liking), ever since Travis's The Man Who there's just been more and more of this kind of shit appearing and being adored.

The Man Who had some charm, IMHO, in that its biggest hits were all borrowed tunes (Writing to Reach You was Wonderwall, Driftwood ripped off Blur's The Universal, Why Does It Always Rain On Me stole from Here Comes Your Man); its spiritual successor, Coldplay's Parachutes less so (Yellow was bearable until it became omnipresent, and I think there were one or two other decentish tunes on the album, whose names I forget...), and now we've got Keane, Snow Patrol, more Coldplay...

What is it that makes a young man with a guitar look at the likes of Chris Martin and think to himself "Now that's the sort of thing I want to do!"? Are they just cynically looking at the sales and Gwyneth Paltrow and thinking "I'll have some of that, please"? I'd rather they were being that cynical than being that bland...
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:33 / 04.05.05
Because one man's 'bland' is another man's 'exciting'?

Honestly, is that really the best you can do? Assume a related 'blandness' to a whole host of almost entirely unrelated bands that you don't like, fail to explain why you find them bland and why you've linked such disparate musical entities in such a way, and then start a thread asking why they're all bland?

Nice and basic is right. Travis are a post-Beatles folk-pop band who've been making music for, what, ten years now, The Bravery are kind of a cross between Duran Duran and Adam and the Ants, Doves are ploughing the same melancholic epic pop rock furrow that got bands like Elbow noticed, and before them Talk Talk, The The, etc - Coldplay do a similar thing, just bigger, broader and built for stadia. From what I hear Bloc Party and Kaiser Chiefs are a post-punk bands with yet more '80s reference points (Joy Division, Gang Of Four, etc), and both sound more than a little like mid-nineties Blur. Define what ropes all these bands together apart from the fact that you don't like them, and maybe you've got a starting point for a thread. Of course, if you just want to whinge about bands you don't like with a bunch of people who already agree with you (SUCKS! ROCKS! SHITE!) then I hear there's still plenty of playground walls around with no graffiti on them...
 
 
Seth
11:02 / 04.05.05
Imagine having the luxury of time so that you can moan about music you don't like.

The amount of new music that moves and surprises me is dizzying, to the point that I rarely notice the stuff I don't like for the avalanche of what I love.

If you're bored with music and think it's bland that says more about you than what you're describing. Pop music's never been healthier, IMHO. And if you're not into pop there's more access to sounds that are a bit more challenging than ever before.

I feel more spoiled for choice than anything else.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:29 / 04.05.05
If you're bored with music and think it's bland that says more about you than what you're describing.

I don't think that is either true or fair. Being passionate about a form often means being annoyed when other people - especially those working within the form - don't seem to be taking it seriously enough. Which I suspect is what is meant by "bland" here, as JtB has perfectly reasonably pointed out that there are significant differences between the music being criticised here.

But yes. "I do not like these bands. Is music dying" is a bit of a silly argument. One might start with thinking about what one does not like about these bands - what, musically, makes them "bland". One might then think a bit about what their apparent success means for other bands. Is the fact that many more technically savvy listeners (possibly, indeed, those who are taking it seriously) are not listening to commercial radio, and many people are downloading rather than buying music having an impact on this, as falling singles sales have altered the composition of the charts?
 
 
Seth
12:53 / 04.05.05
In all cases the boredom, annoyance and attribution of blandess are the responses of the person listening to the music, rather than the music being boring, annoying or bland. Hence it says more about the listener than it does about the music. Own your responses rather than othering them.

The point must be maintained that there is more access to a wider diversity of music now than ever before. If you can't find music that you can get passionate about then you're not looking, or not looking in the right place. If you're sick of music that you don't like then put time and effort into finding music you do like.

If you genuinely feel your taste isn't being catered to then change your taste. Some of the most rewarding experiences I've had with music involved building a slow, steady relationship with an album or artist over time, letting their approach and ideas change my preconceptions rather than standing in immediate judgement of every new sound that came my way. Try that, too.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:20 / 04.05.05
Or, to sum up, referring back to the first message: Yeah, maybe it is just you.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
06:57 / 05.05.05
What they said.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:06 / 05.05.05
Objectively, I agree with both Jacks. However... I'm not particularly objective- while I don't have anything against people for liking bands that I don't, and fully believe they get every bit as much out of them as I do out of my favourite bands (and conversely that they may have as low an opinion of my favourite bands as I do of theirs) I do reserve the right to think that some music is, to my ears, shit. If I didn't think some music was shit, I'd lose some of what makes the good stuff good (again, to me). If a tall guy's standing on level ground, he's pretty tall. If he's standing in a hole and he's STILL really tall, you're gonna go "by crikey, that man's exceptionally tall".

In music, as in books, comics, films, whatever, hating stuff makes loving other stuff that bit more intense (it's me and my bands/comics/films against the world/sea of mediocrity/whatever)- of course, people are bound to have the same view but the other way around. It's if they didn't that I'd worry.

That really didn't make much sense, did it? I'll try again when I've had more sleep.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:09 / 05.05.05
Oh, and Seth's second paragraph's bang on the money, too... I don't like most of the stuff they play on music radio, so I don't listen to music radio (except Resonance occasionally)- actually, that's given me an idea for a whole new thread. Instead of wasting my time with stuff that does nothing for me, I'll try to find stuff that WILL set my hair on fire. Not literally, obviously- that would be too easy and nowhere near as much fun.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
16:06 / 05.05.05
J the B, Seth,

Oh come on... None of the bands mentioned above are exactly any fun, are they ? And objectively speaking, and I'm going to have to insist about this, they are not inspiring. I can imagine you'd get a certain amount of grim enjoyment from being *in* The Bravery say, in terms of blow jobs, coke, and hopefully a bit of cash put away for when the record company gives you the bad news, but as for being a fan, there's no way anyone's going to leave one of their shows feeling like they should do anything other than get a job at an accountancy firm, as far as I can see - Not that there's anything wrong with getting a job at an accountancy firm, some of my best friends, etc, but there are other pressures that take care of that, surely. And as for Keane, Coldplay and so forth, in much the same way as you wouldn't hire a lawyer on a drunken, misguided, but nevertheless fairly interesting crusade to change the world, what's the point of a sensible band ? These people are not doing their jobs properly, dammnit. Franz Ferdinand, for example, who I used to quite like, have spent the last eight or nine months touring the world as feted rock and rollers after what must have been years of frustration, playing in pubs in Glasgow, staring at CD:UK with terrible hangovers, fending off phone calls from the folks and so on, and yet now it's their day in the sun what have they got to say ? By and large, it seems, that 'it's been a good year for British music.' Really, why on earth would they care ? They should actively loathe other UK bands, they should be doing what they can to hurt them badly, as opposed to just indulging in this creepy, damp, and frankly rather disturbing inclusivity, patented, let's be honest, by Tony B. Sitting there age 18, trying to work out what's the best thing to do with one's life, when this stuff actually matters, in what sense is the ( debatable ) fact that it's been a good year for British music going to help you, at all ?

J Osterberg ( sp, almost certainly, ) once said that the thing he was most interested in was what people did after the performance, but what would you do after seeing the likes of Coldplay 'live' ? Feel empowered about the mortgage agreement ? Propose to your 'partner' at too young an age ? Buy a car with a decent soundsystem on HP, and resolve to work a bit harder to make the payments, and thus attain your goal ?

Again, fair enough, I suppose, but when everything else is implicitly saying that, is delivering that message, it's really no good if vaguely 'alt rock' musicians are in the same business, and don't seem to have much else to offer. Personally anyway, I'd have been a bit different if I'd never heard The Smiths, I'd be earning a lot more money by now for one thing, if I'd spent as much time listening to that hobbit from Keane as I did do Morrissey, I'd be a *coff* rich man by now, and...

Actually, on reflection, I guess I done fucked up there a tad, really. Oh well.


Again, there's
 
 
Chiropteran
16:42 / 05.05.05
FWIW, Alex, my wife has written close to 1000 pages of (actually pretty good first-draft) material for two different novels while listening to Coldplay - and, in fact, she credits A Rush of Blood to the Head for helping her break a months-long case of writer's block. At least someone finds them stimulating and inspiring.

Can't stand them, myself.
 
 
Seth
22:56 / 05.05.05
Alex: I genuinely have very little idea of what you're posting about. My interests lie in other areas. What is it about these bands that makes them worth writing about to you?
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
07:02 / 06.05.05
Jesus, Alex - but you're like some cliche of the gutter tabloid British music press. Do you have no ideas of your own?

Let's break this down. First of all, contrary to what you might believe, an awful lot of people VERY MUCH LIKE YOU like Coldplay, Keane, the Bravery, etc. Imagining their fans to be cardigan-wearing, Mondeo-driving post-yuppies old before their time may help you get out of bed in the morning, but it's utter bollocks, and it's vaguely pathetic that you seem to genuinely believe this. Are you really this thick? I mean, your last post is of a kind with most of the rest that I've read, in that it's articulate, witty and quite charming, but almost totally uninformed and quite wilfully ignorant. You use the word 'objective' in the most subjective way possible without any trace of irony. You (again, with this) conflate The Bravery, a band who are doing their best to sound like a sped-up version of Duran Duran and whose singer looks like Elvis in Adam Ant's clothes, with Keane, a piano-based pop group whose singer, as you correctly point out, looks like a hobbit. In what weird little fantasy land do you think these bands are comparable? Maybe because you think both are dull, but as many have pointed out now, essentially your opinion on Barbelith is more or less worthless unless you bother to EXPLAIN WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE ON ABOUT.

I'm tired of this - trying to get it into the stone skulls of some of you cretinous fucks that the reason the Radio/Music forum is like the hillbilly cousin of the rest of the board is because you won't engage, you won't consider or examine your opinions, and you won't articulate or explain them other than in a schoolboy voice - "oh, come on, everyone knows [X BAND] are rubbish!" I don't give a shit whether you hate Coldplay, Keane, or whatever big-selling band is making your cock look small right now - as Stoatie correctly points out, sometimes hating a band can be the right thing to do. But for fuck's sake try and use your fucking brain before posting to a thread about music. Explain what you mean, why you mean it - it doesn't mean you have to reconsider your opinion or be less sarky or whatever the fuck, just use your loaf. Why Are The Bravery boring to you? I'm not trying to change your mind, and god knows I don't think they'er the best new band of the moment - I just would like to have a conversation about music on this board with more than just bullshit artists trying to be witty. I've said it before, but it bears repeating - Barbelith is not the pub. The Conversation is where you go to hang out and talk nonsense.
 
 
snowgoon
09:17 / 06.05.05
MY MY we are tetchy aren't we. Such vitriol over such a trivial little topic.

Anyway. As I started this I guess I'd better leap in.

As has been mentioned, there are many millions of people who thoroughly enjoy listening to, for example, Keane and Coldplay. I have their albums as well, and yes I do enjoy them.

What I was trying to get a discussion about was how, and yes I'm generalising, there does seem to be a rise in AOR rock bands at the moment. Without dragging this off into a sub-discussion about labelling music, the diversity of the popular music scene seems to be dwindling. The "big new bands" all seem to be able to be slotted into a comfortable marketing niche.

Is this a trend that is being foisted on us or are our musical tastes changing? If it's the latter then does the lowest common denominator of perceived taste apply??

BTW - You don't HAVE to state an opinion to discuss a topic. Sure it helps, but sometimes people don't have a firm opinion to state, sometimes they are looking to others to help them firm up their mind as they are aware they aren't as knowledge about certain things. I'm always willing to have my mind changed/opened/altered but do not patronise me.
 
 
snowgoon
09:19 / 06.05.05
P.S. If "referring back to the first message: Yeah, maybe it is just you." is the case, then so be it. At least I'll know!
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:05 / 06.05.05
For the record, wasn't blowing up at you, and you've clarified the point of the thread very well, thank you.
 
 
snowgoon
23:29 / 06.05.05
No problem, as I said, I'm lacking 'history' here as a back drop. Anyway, it's only opinion, not life and death, right? ;-)
 
 
grant
04:59 / 07.05.05
Radio rock -- hits -- have been boring for me since 1984 or earlier. I stopped listening to rock radio, and don't watch MTV.

As a result, when I hear a Coldplay song (I think I've heard two, but possibly more), they sound new & exciting.

the diversity of the popular music scene seems to be dwindling.

I don't know about that. Kelly Clarkson? Pop music has never been very diverse, but it's always mined other sources for new bits of sparkle. "Since U Been Gone" is a great power-pop song -- everything but the lyrics could have been lifted from an Archers of Loaf track, practically, with a little bit of studio polish. For the kids.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
14:17 / 07.05.05
In what weird little fantasy land do you think these bands are comparable ?

Hm. Well in terms of their intentions perhaps, there are similarities. Insofar as both Keane and The Bravery don't seem to have much of an interest in anything other than looking good in their videos, getting played on the radio, and generally selling a lot of records. Which is fair enough, almost every other band in the world would like to do the same, it's just that this hasn't always been the extent of their ambitions - Groups in the past have tried, and on occasion even succeeded in broadening the sonic template, commenting meaningfully on, or even actually affecting the direction of popular culture, or just leaving behind am interesting musical legacy for the next generation to draw on, and I just don't get that sense with either Keane or The Bravery, or really any of the other bands mentioned above.

It depends on how you listen to music in the first place I suppose. If it's purely about what's there on the record, well then fine, I don't suppose there's much to object to about the likes of Franz Ferdinand, who do to be fair sound good on the radio. It's just that if whatever ( hackneyed, absurd and outdated, possibly, ) reason you prefer your bands to be at least trying to 'do a bit more,' is it entirely unreasonable to be feeling a bit short-changed by what's on offer at the moment, in terms of hyped new major record company groups ?

Though these are totally subjective notions, I appreciate.

Whatever big-selling band is making your cock look small at the moment

Now that's one thing, certainly, that I don't really need to look to the music scene for...
 
 
Grey Area
08:41 / 09.05.05
commenting meaningfully on, or even actually affecting the direction of popular culture, or just leaving behind am interesting musical legacy for the next generation to draw on

But how much of this was the result of their work being reinterpreted in hindsight, as opposed to it being their aim from the very start?
 
 
haus of fraser
09:47 / 09.05.05
There has always been AOR music around that dominates the radio, TV etc - in the 70's there was Yes, ELO, The Bay City Rollers, and Dana- it weren't all Richard Hell and Johnny Thunders despite what the history books may make you think.
The 80's had Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Brian Adams- Keane, Dido etc are just the latest in a long line of bands that get played on mainstream radio.

I remember when Coldplay were touted as the new Radiohead so do we blame Radiohead? or is it U2's Fault or Mick Jagger's or John Lennon's or Muddy Water's....

The underground has generally always been just that- except now we have the wonders of the internet and digital radio to explore further afield than the traditional alternative slots on Radio one. The velvet Underground never really achieved mainstream success in their lifetime- and the pixies never really charted or were seen as the giants they now are...

The collapse of the mainstream music press also has a lot to answer for- as have the terms 'indie' or alt rock- alternative to what exactly? this stuff is the mainstream.

The young bands rebelling against the poodle perm poseurs in trad Rock in the late 80's early 90's are no longer the alternative the likes of REM, Janes Addiction, Radiohead and U2 are the mainstream. The Bravery, Coldplay etc are all mainstream rock acts signed to major labels that get played on national radio and make people money. If this type of music isn'y your thing what is? do you like noisy guitars? hip hop? grime? death metal?

There are hundreds of great websites devoted to new music- along with loads of great nights and tiny record labels- just cos the NME doesn't cover it doesn't mean its not happening or not worth checking out.
Check out Artrocker and Looselips sinks ships. Look online at Fluxblog or flyboys Working for the clampdown. I'm sure you'll find something to excite you somewhere just cos the latest throng of mainstream rock doesn't.

FYI i quite like the new britsh sea power record- its certainly a grower
 
 
All Acting Regiment
09:47 / 10.05.05
But how much of this (changing of pop culture/society/music)was the result of their work being reinterpreted in hindsight, as opposed to it being their aim from the very start?

This is an important question, but I mean, it's like Richard Hell and the guy out of television setting fire to a field as kids, and then being questioned by the police- Hell replies "I just wanted to watch it burn"- I mean come on,you just can't imagine anyone from Coldplay doing something like that, and I think what we're coming to in this post is that some of us would like it if there were more bands doing that.

Yes, setting fire to a field isn't the most "sensible" thing to do, but I mean who on Barbelith wants "sensible" in their music? Who?
 
 
haus of fraser
10:40 / 10.05.05
I guess what i'm saying is that the playing field has been altered- we are sold alternative music as a package- music to burn fields down too is out there still - you just have to look in new places for it...

some bands I find exciting at the moment- Clor (god I keep coming back to them but they really dop sound like what you want Beck to come up with...) Arcade Fire, Commenachi, Lightening Bolt, Matafix, Rolldeep, Havana Guns, Plantlife to name a few.. just cos there not all signed to a major or in the NME it don't mean its not happening. If you find music bland move on to something new- there are plenty of people here that can help steer you if need be.

Why not join up on the mixtape swap and see if someone can restart the fire rather than moan about music that no-one here really seems bothered about.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
13:10 / 10.05.05
Why not join up on the mixtape swap and see if someone can restart the fire rather than moan about music that no-one here really seems bothered about.

Indeed, this would be the more "Barbelith" way of approaching the issue- perhaps we could store this thread as an example of how we want a positivist way of doing things in this fora?
 
  
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