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Ramsey Dukes

 
 
illmatic
09:35 / 03.05.05

I heard an interview with Ramsey Dukes last week on the Strange Attractor show on the excellent Resonance FM. It inspired me to pull my copies of his books off my shelf, including a copy of Thudersqueak which (much to my shame) has been languishing unread since I picked it up second hand a year or two ago. I cracked the cover and have been gulping it whole over the last two days and this thread is to spread my enthusiasm. Why haven’t I read this before? There’s ten times more imagination in a single page of this book than most of the tedious tomes of occult dreck that befoul the bookstores. It’s an uncategorisible book, in that it isn’t really your stereotyped “occult” book at all – the subtitle is “Confessions of a Right Wing Anarchist” and it touches on politics, economics and science (amongst other things), all with a light-heartedness which serves to deflate the pomposity of these disciplines' defenders - thus it’s perhaps a lot more “chaotic” than most of the Chaos manuals on the market.

He does in fact bear some indirect responsibility for the Chaos current. He published he influential SSOTBME (Sex Secrets of the Black Magicians Exposed!) in the late seventies, as well as the essay “Spare Parts” back in 1972. Although I wasn’t much more than a zygote at that time, I imagine that the latter helped to stimulate the revival of interest in Spare that eventually led to Chaos magic.

I think he‘s a hugely under-rated author – possibly because people like their occultism bite sized, easily digestible, and don’t like having to think and there aren’t any programmes of exercises or promises of easy power and quick enlightenment in his books. Neither do his books hide in the shadow of things cold, mysterious and black, so they won’t get you off with goth chicks (unless they’re particularly cool goth chicks) – he’s much more like your genial eccentric uncle than a rock hard black magician. Very "English" as well, in that quietly bonkers way we're so good at - I had images of vicars sipping tea, cricket matches on the village green, and so on come to mind while reading the book.

He strikes me as someone who’s really internalised the ideas of Austin Spare – in particular, the “neither-neither”, the smashing of opposing ideas against each other repeatedly until you come up with something new. And rather than simply repeat or try to re-flog Spare’s ideas he’s taken them and done something new. And also - perhaps most importantly, he’s really bloody funny.

So, anyone else read his stuff? If not, why not? Remedy the situation immediately. Any thoughts, comments and so forth?
 
 
ghadis
09:53 / 03.05.05
Yea, Mr Dukes is indeed the bees knees. First read What i did in my Holidays and S.S.O.T.M.E and they blew my socks off. More great ideas in one paragraph than in most books like you say. I recently read The Good, The Bad, The Funny in which he outlines his theories of trinitarian thought. Instead of the God/Devil duality he adds the Trickster into the equation. It is of course hilarious but more importantly it really stays with you after you've finished it. It really makes you think. Also got Thundersqueak on the shelf which i havn't read yet but i'm sure i'll remedy that soon.
 
 
penitentvandal
11:00 / 03.05.05
Dukes is great, granted. Not entirely sure if I'd have dug him when I was first starting out, but for the magician with a bit more experience - who can, as you point out, handle books of magic which don't have any 'spells' in - and a good sense of humour, Dukes is brilliant. I particularly like his Hugo L'Estrange stuff, the absolutely bonkers satanist who he created to deal with the satanic child abuse panic by saying that all children should be abused, to prevent them turning into crashing bores when they grew up. I laugh whenever I read that, both because (a) it's superficial but fundamentally-flawed logic, which always makes me laugh anyway, and (b) I have fun imagining the face of anyone with no familiarity with Dukes coming across that essay. 'He said what?'

Basically I kind of think of Dukes as being sort of like Crowley but less up himself and with a better sense of humour.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
11:06 / 03.05.05
IMO Ramsey Dukes is one of the few occult writers who is consistently thought-provoking & brilliant - whilst retaining a gentle sense of humour and writing out of his experience - he just gets better with time. He's also very good "live" as it were - both as a lecturer and when he's performing under his various "personas" such as Sri Baba Rebop or the Reverend Evil b. Myaghud. I was first introduced to his world via his "A Satanist's Diary" in Aquarian Arrow magazine & have been enjoying his writings ever since.

Some links for the uninitiated:
Interview from Head magazine
Reviews of The Good the Bad the Funny, The Hellgate Chronicles and S.S.O.T.B.M.E

Collection of Short Essays
His essay Spare Parts
Does Science lead to magick or vice-versa?
 
 
Katherine
11:37 / 03.05.05
I can't wait to get my hands on his latest book, I know someone with a review copy but they are being stubborn about letting people near it.

I love the way in which his books make you think about something, instead of thinking 'oh yes of course' quite often it's 'oh yes of...what!?!!' Especially in Words Made Flesh which is my favourite of all his work.
 
 
pornotaxi
08:18 / 31.07.05
i'm reading the new one uncle ramsey's little book of demons just now, and its the mutt's nuts, only sixty pages in and its already paid for itself in terms of wisdom, insight and general all round entertainment.
 
 
LVX23
18:15 / 31.07.05
synchroliscious, lucky liquid! i've been reading thundersqueek over the last week and enjoying it quite a bit. definitely not the average occult book. so nice to read something "new" on magick. as others noted it's probably better for an experienced will since he enjoys confronting sacred cows and generally showing how both sides (left & right) are missing the real picture. i'm very anxious to read more. i've heard of him for a while but never read anything. now i'm stoked that there's a great occult writer with several books under his belt that i haven't yet read.
 
 
A0S
19:48 / 31.07.05
I think all his books are wonderful and well worth reading. I particulaly like 'What I did on my holidays'. It's a book of short pieces on a diverse but always fascinating range of subjects.
I don't have the new one yet but I will ASAP.
 
 
Charlie's Horse
22:27 / 31.07.05
Ah, synchronicity. I'd ordered Thundersqeak off of Amazon, and started reading through it this past week. I get the feeling I'd like to re-read it, just to re-touch the numerous ideas and suggestions that Raul makes. I particularly enjoyed his advice to take up several different jobs as occult academies - the Civil service, a scientific research team, an economics think-tank, etc. in order to see how they practice magic, and to strengthen your own. If one could learn magic from vision questing through the wilds, why not try to see it on the clock. It's been quite applicable, given my summer work at one of the worst telemarketing companies that I've ever heard of (Trilegiant). Telemarketing is like an advanced course in the black arts. Every sales pitch is like a magic trick - one hand distracts with some flash, the other does the trick. And sales persuasion isn't always the most causal of events. (I just hope that soon I'll use my powers only for good. The things we do to eat.)

What I've read - Thundersqueak and SSOTBME a time ago - has given me some interesting insights. Of what I've read in the last week, I've loved his advice to allow magic into your life, through the acceptance of events without the ever-present need to explain them away. Or rather to explain them in a animistic, objects-working-of-their-own-violition way, rather than reflexively reverting to some mental extension of materialism. Goodly stuff. And I have to agree that his afor-mentioned habit of inditing both sides of an argument for missing the picture is marvelous. It's interesting how he uses politics to express magical ideas and vice-versa.

What does he talk about in his little book of demons, pornotaxi? That looked rather interesting.
 
 
macrophage
23:05 / 31.07.05
I respect his work that I have consumned, I've read SSOTBME and that's it with jus i/views and articles I'd really like to get a copy of "Words Made Flesh" I also had a copy of "Thundersqueak" and I can't remember where I got that that from! I got another copy of "Words Made Flesh" which is an arty post computer programming insight into linguistics and the cut up tech of WSB done by Florain Cramer a Media Design Student and flashly edited by Matthew Fuller of "Underground" fanzine infamy! It's ahard tome to approach. Now Porno Taxi now that's up my street because I was surfing the other night for a whole sesh and lo and behold I have manifested pornotaxi a gonzo webcam porno!! Nice synchronicity it happened to me - popped up after I visited American OTO websites - how quaint!!!
 
 
pornotaxi
11:40 / 05.08.05
What does he talk about in his little book of demons?

it's an anecdotal treasure house, summed up by the book's own subtitle, "the positive advantages of the personification of life's problems - a light hearted yet deeply serious look at how to recognise, bargain with, and ultimately control one's personal demons"
 
 
illmatic
11:51 / 05.08.05
I've written a review of that book which should be on line soon. It basically looks at how one might take the idea of demonology/personification and apply it to a range of situations. What makes it so interesting is his humour, and um, "perversity" ...not in a whips and rubber kind of way, just in the way he inverts every situation to squeeze creaive possibilities out of it. Makes most other occult books that claim orignality look laughable.
 
 
LVX23
20:45 / 05.08.05
I enjoyed Thundersqueek and am looking forward to reading more of his work.

A few quotes I liked:

"It is not people that rule us, but fashions, beliefs, demons and gods."

"Terrorism is merely the aping of one's rulers: as the Taoist sage said, 'Steal a purse and the will put you in jail, steal a country and they will make you a Duke.'"

"The new free spirits must overcome the fear of technology in the hands of government and recognize it for what it is: government in the hands of technology."
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:35 / 17.10.05
Id been reading thundersqueak along side the sirius mysteries by murray hope, what a contrast, yet they make very good companions. The styles are at odds yet they kind of breed well. The mutt they have produced has started me thinking and led to an even more intresting mixture.

Little book of demons and the egyptian book of going forth by day by rameses seleem, who is eithered quoted by hope or is hope, i cant decide yet. The little book of demons is something i needed to read about 6 years ago. Fantastic, the premise of personifying through language and also the illusion to language and numeracy themselves being the father and mother of the other demons so to speak is very intriguing, no need to create a language of desire, i was taught one as english and maths.

The everyday practicality revealed by The duke is astounding, so much that can be used and so much stimulus. Understanding that everyday language, creates structure and complex demons, very similar to the egyptian idea of true names, hekau, perhaps the knowledge that the power of words actually have over the mind, binding those forms and formula into consciousness, giving words life.

The duke of little demons has appeared at a time that couldnt be more appropriate for me, as it looks like a rewriting of several pacts is in order.
 
 
ghadis
13:54 / 17.10.05
Little book of Demons is indeed fantastic. Came at an interesting time for me too and i'm getting loads of great stuff from it.

(off topic)

Nephilim...I'd take any book by Seleem with buckets of salt if i were you. He isn't Murry Hope. (i've met him and he is defiantly male) I havn't read his translation of
The book of going forth by day but i've read some of his other translations and he has a strong agenda which flavours his translations somewhat.
 
 
ghadis
14:21 / 17.10.05
That should read definintly male of course but in this case it does work both ways.
 
 
LVX23
19:35 / 17.10.05
I recently read SSOTBME and found it to be a highly valuable analysis of Science and Magick as equally functional and valid perspectives. This resonates a lot with my own thinking. Science provides mechanism, Magick provides meaning. Dukes further analyses these with Religion and Art annd develops a very satisfying graph of the relationship between these four dominant psychologies of relating to the world. His writing can be a bit obtuse at times but just when I'm starting to wonder what the hell he's talking about, then i read a line that sinks straight to the core and lys it all out. Great stuff.

Just started Little Book of Demons, though it was set aside while I read through Gen Hex. Dukes is so far ahead of his time.
 
 
SteppersFan
14:05 / 20.10.05
Mal had a right laugh with him when doing the nearly nineties books... he's an interesting guy and a very amusing writer.
 
 
A fall of geckos
16:45 / 20.12.05
There's an mp3 interview with Ramsey Dukes here.

It's a podcast by Strange Attractor, which explores his contributions to current magic, and has a short overview on the new book.

If you want to save it, you'll have to right click on the link.
 
 
Eudaimonic.lvx
19:34 / 20.12.05
Thanks for that, great interview
 
 
louisemichel
16:13 / 23.12.05
Great interview indeed. When was it recorded ?
he mentions something about Tony Blair and a terrorist attack on the British soil and I think the interview was conducted before the July terrorist attacks.
 
 
Bruno
13:07 / 06.07.06
"Elsewhere I have suggested that very complex dynamical systems can evoke a measure of conscious intelligence, and that the most primitive need for such intelligence is usually to ensure its continued existence by any possible means."
(from Technology Future Shock)

Can anyone point me to the other writings where he (or anyone else) has expanded this argument?
 
 
Bruno
09:41 / 08.07.06
"Elsewhere I have suggested that very complex dynamical systems can evoke a measure of conscious intelligence, and that the most primitive need for such intelligence is usually to ensure its continued existence by any possible means."
(from Technology Future Shock)

Can anyone point me to the other writings where he (or anyone else) has expanded this argument?


*bump*
Someone knows, come on.
 
 
LykeX
10:52 / 08.07.06
It sounds a bit like some of the ideas Dukes writes about in Uncle Ramsey's Little Book of Daemons, how e.g. a political ideology actually promotes the thing it proposes to fight, since if it ever really succeeded, it would mean the death of the ideology itself.
Thus a political organisation can be viewed as a conscious organism focused on its own survival.
 
 
Bruno
11:43 / 08.07.06
Thanks LykeX.

Sounds very similar to meme theory.
 
 
ophion
10:40 / 10.07.06
I feel duty bound, for balance etc, to put forward the case that Mr Dukes is a miserable failure of an occultist and author, and that his works are the callow sideline musings of a genial armschair magus which should be consigned to the dustbin of 'sheep in wolf's clothing' almost-magick.

But he's just too nice.....xxx
 
  
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