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"Never trust a skinny shaman": Magic and divination for material gain

 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:49 / 29.04.05
In light of my own recent forays into professional divination, I was wondering how many other Templers derive some of their income from their magical or divinatory work.

What do you sell--readings, spells, healing? Was it hard for you to ask for a material reward--did you wrestle with your conscience, or did it seem only fair and reasonable to ask for remuneration in exchange for your skills?

Conversly, some may feel it's unacceptable to ask for material gain in exchange for some kinds of work. Why? What would you charge for and what would you always do for free?
 
 
Ganesh
23:42 / 29.04.05
This is gonna sound utterly wanky, Mordant, but I really do consider what I practise to be a particularly orthodox variety of divination, or whatever. We don't think of it in those terms, because psychiatry is, in many ways, the crossover between 'hard' pharmacology (earnest discussion of the presumed mode of action of antidepressants, etc.) and soft tea-and-sympathyism (commonsense counselling/psychotherapy) and is now seen as the wallpaper of our lives - but wallpaper we pay for. I say this only to emphasise that I make a looooadamoney from the societally-approved brand of 'magic', and if I can turn a guinea here, you certainly can.
 
 
Yagg
04:46 / 30.04.05
Sorry, Thread Rot:

In light of my own recent forays into professional divination, I was wondering how many other Templers derive some of their income from their magical or divinatory work.

Templers. Can we establish the Order of Knights Templer, then?

Sorry. Sincerely.
 
 
Z. deScathach
10:30 / 30.04.05
Further thread rot: What?! The new pope will just have us disbanded.......
 
 
Z. deScathach
10:32 / 30.04.05
In terms of the above, if someone wants to give me a chicken, I got no problem....
 
 
Seth
11:48 / 30.04.05
The first important thing is to distinguish it from magic and divination for material gain. If you’re making money from tarot readings then the magic is for giving someone an insight into their lives, often an insight they might need at a crisis point. The money is payment for this service, a service that you put considerable time and effort into learning and providing.

One of the problems with magic is that the complex systems of beliefs and language surrounding the techniques and ideas can set you several levels removed from what it is you’re actually doing. Everything becomes fuzzy and abstract and you wonder exactly what it is you’re doing that’s worth getting paid for. So look at it this way: you are an expert in giving people an alternative perspective on their lives. Not everyone has the energy, resources and time to become and expert in everything, so they pay a specialist.

You are that specialist. It’s quite alright to receive payment for it. A worker is worth their wages.

I had this with NLP. People were actually coming to me and asking, “Can you NLP me?” To which my response was, “Yes, I can use NLP to help you get what you want. So what do you want?” At which point many people shuffled their feet, looked at the floor and said they didn’t know. Often people have a general sense that things aren’t satisfactory, but no means of knowing what it is that’s wrong or what will make them happier. So the response is then, “Do you want to know what you want?” Probably the response will be, “Yes.” The first use of NLP is then to help them discover what it is they want for their lives.

In these cases I’m not “doing NLP.” I’m actually one person doing and using and being whatever I reasonably can to assist another person in becoming who they want to be. That’s hard work and requires skills of observation, wisdom, discernment, honesty, character, compassion, empathy, and an ability to stretch beyond one’s limits for every new person one works with. A good therapist will have to build an accurate model of each person’s world model, and constantly adapt it to ensure its continued accuracy. They’ll probably need to develop techniques or adapt existing ones especially for each individual. They’ll have to become an expert in doing the unprecedented. In other words they’ll have to reinvent their understanding and skill set for every new client while retaining a strong sense of themselves and their boundaries. All this has to be done without infantilising their client or living their lives for them.

Jesus. I’m in the early stages of setting myself up as a therapist, and reading that paragraph back is scary! It’s a huge responsibility and commitment and demands a huge amount. But in terms of relevance to this thread, if I’m living that paragraph and doing it well then yes, I reckon I’ll deserve to be paid for my work.

One of my favourite crappy little one-liner slogans from the last couple of months is, “You have to live in the world that’s here.” You work hard and honestly at what you love, you earn money, you do your best to improve what you can. You’ll never be perfect and you’ll only subject yourself to slow decay and inner death by staying on the sidelines trying to avoid getting stuck in for fear of being hurt. Only once you’re participating in the world can you participate in change. And magic should be all about change…
 
  
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