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banishing for sigil magick

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14:56 / 19.09.01

Is it a good idea to banish even when it isn't your intention to work with thought forms/archetypes/spirits, or whatever you want to call them?

I hadn't thought it necessary until the other night when, um, some unexpected things happened while I charged a sigil. Something out there or in there showed me some fearful things that were almost too much to handle -- I mean there was such a surge of energy running through me that I was hyperventilating. I'm scared to think of the state I might be in now if I was just a little bit weaker.

That said, I'm not convinced that the experience was negative, or positive for that matter... it was just unexpected. Whatever happened it was enough to make me focus on some of life's more mudane things for awhile, until I have a better grasp on the magical.

Mordant Carnival

15:44 / 19.09.01

I think I speak for us all when I say: Yikes!

Yeah. I always banish, either with appropriate visualisations or wiht laughter.
You're probably very wise to take a breather. Ground yourself, stop and smell whatever smelly things happen to take your fancy, and when in doubt- cook. Gets your feet back on the ground like nothing else. And hey! You can eat the result.

16:29 / 19.09.01

The term 'Banishing Ritual' is specific to western traditions and it holds the connotation of kicking something out, which, can be misleading.

Some people call it 'cleansing', 'grounding', 'closing', etc.

Whatever word is being used, what essentially is happening is that you leave your ordinary life briefly to enter one of ritual and magic. When you want to go back to the ordinary life, you should close the doors that you've opened.

Even when just doing a sigil you should create clear demarcations of when you enter and exit ritual space.

This is one of the reasons that lots of magical groups end their rituals with a big meal. Nothing closes off the subtle senses more than having all your energy go to a full belly for digestion.

I've also found that hot tubs help close those doors.

The One Eyed King

19:33 / 19.09.01

Is it a good idea to banish even when it isn't your intention to work with thought forms/archetypes/spirits, or whatever you want to call them?

I would say it depends on what kind of person you are. If you enjoy that kind of thing then no. If not then yes.

Banishing a spirit... Now that's a though. I suppose you could keep them around and threaten to banish them when ever they do something you don't like....

[ 19-09-2001: Message edited by: C.A.S ]

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09:48 / 20.09.01

hmmm hot food, hot water... sounds like good advice. Of course getting a job might help too I suppose, that way I'm forced to enter "the real world" occasionally. We'll see, we'll see...

09:48 / 20.09.01

"Alright," Mister Snee thinks, "so I'll just do a little visualization involving opening some kind of power source, or perhaps a gate or something to the effect, before charging a sigil, then close it afterwards." He pauses. "But, what if 'closing' it stops the sigil's effect by locking out magickal influence? Or locks out any possible spiritual interactions the sigil might have brought on? So should I leave it 'open'? But then, what if I'm not grounded properly, or I get possessed or something? Or..."

Great, I'm caught in another self-deprecating quadruple-guessing loop. Looks like it's a complete mind-reformat again for me.

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13:32 / 20.09.01

Good point Mr. Snee. Maybe the function of banishing should be more to guard against malign energies, and allow benign ones? I don't know.

And assuming the visualization or whatever device you use is an extension of your own will, you would have to be absolutely sure you don't have unconscious dreams of self-destruction or anything similarily unhappy.

Yep, definitely taking a step back for a time. Magick has made life much more exciting, but I've got to figure some shit out!

01:31 / 21.09.01

Banishing rituals (which are traditionally done before the ritual itself) prepares the space and yourself. After the ritual you do something to 'close' the ritual which closes the door to your self being 'open' (and therefore vulnerable) and your physical space being open.

Closing your ritual doesn't negate the spell. If it did, nobody would do it and it is one of the most common elements of ritual cross-culturally. You cast the spell, it does it's thing. When you close the ritual, it's already out there.

You can close as simply as singing a song that represents the shifting back to 'ordinary' life; 'banishing by laughter'; thanking any guardian spirits for their protection and then gently, respectfully dismissing them; smudging; or changing back into 'street' clothes after being in 'ritual' garb. Just do it with intent.

And Mister Snee, you worry too much

01:39 / 21.09.01

quote:Originally posted by tiger's mouth:

And assuming the visualization or whatever device you use is an extension of your own will, you would have to be absolutely sure you don't have unconscious dreams of self-destruction or anything similarily unhappy.

I don't think you should be afraid of 'banishing' parts of yourself. If that seems like a valid fear then don't do a 'banishing' ritual. Just 'close' the space when you're done.

Your above concern about self-destructive stuff happening after the ritual is exactly what a 'closing' element is going to prevent.

I personally find that certain incenses work great, with or without major work on the part of the practitioner. White Sage, Sweetgrass, Copal, Tibetan rope incense all works great. I have a friend who uses eucalyptus leaves because they are so prevalent and he finds it works just as well as the others.

If all these things seem overwhelming, rely on the plant allies mentioned above. They like to help out.

13:11 / 21.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Lothar Tuppan:
Closing your ritual doesn't negate the spell. If it did, nobody would do it and it is one of the most common elements of ritual cross-culturally. You cast the spell, it does it's thing. When you close the ritual, it's already out there.

Oh, sure, in THEORY, but what if you think that there's the slightest possibility that closing the ritual will negate the spell? Then you start doubting... and you try not to think about it, which only forces you to think about it more, and then you're just not sure about anything anymore and sweet jesus god that's what magic is!

quote:Originally posted by Lothar Tuppan:
And Mister Snee, you worry too much

I try my best.

13:39 / 21.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Mister Snee:

Oh, sure, in THEORY, but what if you think that there's the slightest possibility that closing the ritual will negate the spell? Then you start doubting... and you try not to think about it, which only forces you to think about it more, and then you're just not sure about anything anymore and sweet jesus god that's what magic is!

You can do it Snee! Cross the street. The cars won't hit you if you use the crosswalk and wait for the light.

<pom poms waving>
You can do it! You can do it! you can! You Can!

14:09 / 21.09.01

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14:18 / 21.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Lothar Tuppan:

I don't think you should be afraid of 'banishing' parts of yourself. If that seems like a valid fear then don't do a 'banishing' ritual. Just 'close' the space when you're done.

Your above concern about self-destructive stuff happening after the ritual is exactly what a 'closing' element is going to prevent.

I'm not really concerned about banishing parts of myself after the ritual. What I was getting at might happen during the ritual. If for instance you were to visualize four angels guarding your space, and assuming those angels are extensions of your true will concerning what gets in and what doesn't, if you have any unconscious self-destructive ideas might one of the angels betray you and look the other way for a second?

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14:25 / 21.09.01

quote:Originally posted by Mister Snee:

Oh, sure, in THEORY, but what if you think that there's the slightest possibility that closing the ritual will negate the spell? Then you start doubting... and you try not to think about it, which only forces you to think about it more, and then you're just not sure about anything anymore and sweet jesus god that's what magic is!

And Mr. Snee, you think too much.

14:33 / 21.09.01

That's always been my problem. Always, always, always.

By far the biggest obstacle I encountered when trying to understand all This Magic Stuff was getting my head around "just because".

15:05 / 21.09.01

quote:Originally posted by tiger's mouth:

I'm not really concerned about banishing parts of myself after the ritual. What I was getting at might happen during the ritual. If for instance you were to visualize four angels guarding your space, and assuming those angels are extensions of your true will concerning what gets in and what doesn't, if you have any unconscious self-destructive ideas might one of the angels betray you and look the other way for a second?

If that creates self-doubt then do some ego modification before the ritual and believe that the angels are external spirits, almost every tradition except for Chaos magic considers them external, so you can too. Even if only during the ritual.

How do you know they aren't external beings? If you treat them like parts of yourself they might get pissed off, betray you and look the other way for not being validated as beings in their own right thinking "Arrogant human. Who is he to think everything revolves around him?"

I'm not helping anymore am I?

Seriously, trust them to do what they're there for. Or find another way of protecting your space that works for you without the use of 'external' guardians. Some traditional 'psychic' techniques of creating barriers could work well.

[ 21-09-2001: Message edited by: Lothar Tuppan ]

12:39 / 16.10.01

quote:Originally posted by Mister Snee:
Oh, sure, in THEORY, but what if you think that there's the slightest possibility that closing the ritual will negate the spell? Then you start doubting... and you try not to think about it, which only forces you to think about it more, and then you're just not sure about anything anymore and sweet jesus god that's what magic is!
You are a man after my own heart. *points significantly at name*

When I asked the kind Barbelithians just what good a banishing ritual was, my personal favorite analogy was to compare one's ritual space to a laboratory, and the banishing to the cleaning of your beakers and sterilizing of your test tubes and the correcting of your calculations for errant gravity waves. The closing banishing would therefore include cleaning the soot off your goggles and putting your lab coat in the locker and turning the lights out when you leave. That's just good lab practice, and can't very well have any negative effect on whatever grandiose mad scientist experiments you were working on.

12:50 / 16.10.01

Just don't forget to scream "It's Alive!!!!" at the end of it.

12:56 / 16.10.01

And DO NOT under any circumstances put Abby Normal's brain into your sigils.