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Miyazaki’s Magic (many spoilers)

07:28 / 22.04.05

I’ve seen each and every one of Hayao Miyazaki’s movies several times. I’m beyond excited at the prospect of Howl’s Moving Castle (I’ve just spent an hour of my life gushing my praise in the Film, TV and Theatre forum on that thread).

This is not a film review thread. This is a thread discussing what we can take from this man and make our own. The idea is to use any resource possible to recreate how he does what he does, whether that’s his films, interviews, biographies, articles, anything. It might demand some research from its participants in order to make it work.

I’m specifically interested in Miyazaki’s depiction of magic, which is why this thread seems most comfortable in the Temple forum (and that the discipline of modelling probably belongs here, too). His films always seem quintessentially shamanic to me, and I’m interested in the thoughts of other people on this front and others.

Thoughts and ideas?

10:34 / 22.04.05

His use of flight in his movies has always interested me.
Nausicaa, Porco Rosso, Kiki and especially Laputa all have flight as central themes to the story. Typically, flight is what empowers the characters and allows them to do what it is they do.

It's Nausicaa's glider that gives her the ability to be the mediator between the insects and humans, running back and forth between the two.
It's Kiki's means of providing for herself and helping others. It's central to her whole sense of self-worth.
It's the only thing that makes Porco feel like a man any more. (Been a while since Porco Rosso, can anyone add to this?)
It's Pazu's rites-of-passage. He needs to get out from the underground and head for the sky (an obvious growth metaphor). Once there, he becomes a man by finding Laputa, and thefore taking up his father's legacy.

Laputa, incidentally, is a flying city which is the ultimate power in the world.

When characters fly in Miyazaki movies, they unhook themselves from the limitations they have when earthbound and they become pure potential. While they fly, as long as their Will is strong enough, they can accomplish anything.

Can somebody wiser than me elaborate on the shamanic significance of flight? Funnily enough, I was considering starting a thread on that, but this works nicely.

Unconditional Love

12:23 / 22.04.05

What strikes me about Spirited Away compared to your previous films is a real freedom of the author. A feeling that you can take the film and the story anywhere you wish, independent of logic, even.

Logic is using the front part of the brain, that's all. But you can't make a film with logic. Or if you look at it differently, everybody can make a film with logic. But my way is to not use logic. I try to dig deep into the well of my subconscious. At a certain moment in that process, the lid is opened and very different ideas and visions are liberated. With those I can start making a film. But maybe it's better that you don't open that lid completely, because if you release your subconscious it becomes really hard to live a social or family life.

I believe the human brain knows and perceives more than we ourselves realise. The front of my brain doesn't send me any signals that I should handle a scene in a certain way for the sake of the audience. For instance, what for me constitutes the end of the film, is the scene in which Chihiro takes the train all by herself. That's where the film ends for me. I remember the first time I took the train alone and what my feelings were at the time. To bring those feelings across in the scene, it was important to not have a view through the window of the train, like mountains or a forest. Most people who can remember the first time they took the train all by themselves, remember absolutely nothing of the landscapes outside the train because they are so focused on the ride itself. So to express that, there had to be no view from the train. But I had created the conditions for it in the previous scenes, when it rains and the landscape is covered by water as a result. But I did that without knowing the reason for it until I arrived at the scene with the train, at which moment I said to myself "How lucky that I made this an ocean" (laughs). It's while working on that scene that I realised that I work in a non-conscious way. There are more profound things than simply logic that guide the creation of the story.

from this interview

i have been trained like an obedient slave.

08:45 / 27.04.05

Meludreen: I had a brief look at my books for the textbook answer to your question on shamanic flight. None of them seemed to quite ring true, they were all pretty stodgy and academic.

Instead, here's my answer: The meaning of shamanic flight is that flying is fucking brilliant. I mean, fucking flight! Pretty fucking cool, huh? Holy Power of Fuck and all that.

Flying fucken rules.

12:43 / 27.04.05

Yeah, you could be right.

The closest I get is simply that flying = freedom. You can go in any direction as long as you're willing to do the travelling.

That's a good interview, wolven. I like his description of his working method, how he pretty much makes it up as he goes along. Intuiting story rather than really trying to define it. I didn't know that, but it makes a lot of sense. It would explain a lot of the metaphorical undercurrents in his work as springing straight from the subconcious, case in point being the train/ocean example quoted.

13:31 / 27.04.05

It's interesting that one of the recurring accounts you hear from all truly creative people is that their best work seems to create itself. They see themselves more as stewards of the process rather than its controller or initiator.

15:55 / 27.04.05

Well I'm a big Miyazake fan (although I probably haven't learned to spell his name) but have to say I've never thought too much about the subtext behind them.
But I just thought I'd point out that Howl's Moving Castle is available to download from bittorrent sites, along with subs if you cant speak Japanese - if you fancy previewing it before it gets translated and released over here.
I've seen it and as a huge fan of Miyazake and the books of Dianna Wynne Jones I have to say it is fantastic.
This thread has inspired me to go find out wtf Robert Dilt's Strategies of Genius are though.

23:10 / 27.04.05

Great thread. I've only seen two of his films so far but have just got the 15 film box collection on DVD so I plan to view many more in the near future.

17:11 / 29.04.05

Where did you get the box set from? I know someone who would be blissed beyond belief to find such a DVD. Any more info you can give???

23:58 / 29.04.05

I got it on e-bay.
The set of 15 films sells for about $30 plus $30 postage. Just do a search under Miyazali and you'll find them. The quality is fine & dandy too.

02:14 / 30.04.05

Seth, what a fantastic thread.

It's late o'clock in the morning now and I don't have the brain to contribute yet, except to say Totoro and Spirited Away both contain some the best magickal strategies I have even seen.

Haku as a dragon...Haku as a boy...

02:53 / 30.04.05

flight is movement in an extra dimension. if you can break that one, why not more? time travel, movement along the semantic curves of any concept, in and out of other minds and spirits. movement along the curve of your own potentiality...

heres a miyazaki lesson, sorry for triteness: dont ever underestimate children or animals. another: theres a lot going on that doesnt want you to find out about it...until you do. third: of course somebody is on your side.

perhaps its largely a difference of cultural tropes, but i like that miyazaki can make such trite childish statements profound. its not so much that hes like a smart kid; more like hes a smart adult that respects kids and childish ethics.

11:59 / 01.05.05

A few more talking points can be made from trying to pull out the following:

- List all the baddies from each film.

- List all the instances in which deals are struck, or in which a favour is returned.

- List all the instances from his movies in which agressive behaviour is linked to fear or a lack of understanding.

- List all the instances in which characters work hard at what they do, and from that list try to determine what they get out of it.

18:13 / 11.05.05

* bumpss thread *

02:13 / 28.09.05

Another thing that strikes me is making allies of your antagonists. I don't know if it's widely recognised aspect of his movies, but it's definately there. Spirited Away and Howl both do this very obviously. In both of those films there are characters that are set up as major obstacles or adversaries, who, through confrontation with the hero, become pacified and switch sides.

In Spirited, Yubaba's baby, The three bouncy heads and No Face all do this, going from being large and dangerous to small, inoffensive companions, accompanying Chihiro on her train journey. Yubaba herself goes through a similar process (if you count Yubaba and Zeniba as one and the same).

The Wicked Witch of the Waste does exactly the same. She is basically nothing more than ill-formulated intent (The aquisition of Howl's heart, which, by the way, she has no idea what to do with once she actually has it) wrapped up in and driven by, ridiculous amounts of power.

When Sophie proves she has far more spirit, tenacity and well-formulated intent during their stair-climbing, the witch is revealed for what she really is underneath all that bluff and illusion and Sophie puts her in her care. Heen, though he really should be Suliman's spy, joins their little family too.

Others off the top of my head are Nausicaa (The Ohmu), Laputa (Dola's gang, possibly, maybe) and Mononoke (practically everybody Ashitaka meets). Kiki and Totoro may be exceptions to this rule.

So basically what this is saying is that there are no enemies really, just clashing viewpoints which will make you stronger for resolving them and any force which works against you can also work for you.

Thoughts?

14:52 / 18.10.05

I watched Princess Mononoke again at the weekend and remembered this thread - what strikes me is the representation of nature spirits in Myazaki's films - like the funny little clicky head creatures in Mononoke that lead them through the forest. Very cute, but quite creepy, like something you half-remember having an encounter with at the bottom of your garden when you were six but which didn't fit into the acceptable version of the world you were learning so was excised from your memory...

There's a bit in M.R.James short story 'Casting the runes' where the evil magician guy is talked about in hushed tones and we learn that he has been sighted consorting with "pale, hopping creatures" on the moors at night - or something like that. This put me in mind of the type of spirits you get in Myazaki films. Not sure where I'm going with this... I guess it's an interesting thing to keep in mind if you're dealing with nature spirits, like the spirits of a specific place, the woods, the moors, the riverside, etc... An interesting way of picturing and relating to what the Northern trad calls "landwights"...

All Acting Regiment

15:28 / 18.10.05

Here are many if not all of M.R. James's quite brilliant stories, by the way.

15:36 / 18.10.05

I smell what you're cooking, Gypsy. It's the notion that these spirits are emphatically not tame, and that they will allow only those they choose come close to them: otherwise they might run, or hide, or turn on you. With all the effects on our attitudes, practises and manners that implies.

15:39 / 18.10.05

Meludreen: your post was exactly what I had in mind when I suggested listing the bad guys from Miyazaki films. Well written.