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A Diamond Is For....

 
 
ibis the being
16:51 / 12.04.05
I'm at that tender age when all of my friends seem to be getting engaged/married, or, as some like to put it, "dropping like flies." The question was asked in another thread what the purpose is for marriage engagement, but here I'm more specifically interested in discussing the tradition of The Ring (not the movie), aka The Rock (not the wrestler). Isn't it about time we dispense with it?

I've been spending a lot of time with one friend in particular who's beginning to apply the engagement ring pressure to her boyfriend of 4 or 5 years. She's picked out a yellow sapphire because she doesn't "need" it to be expensive or a diamond but she does want it to be pretty (and, presumably, at least a semi-precious stone). As I understand things, this is becoming a more common attitude among brides to be.

Meanwhile, my beloved is beginning to apply the engagement ring pressure on himself, as for some unfathomable reason he'd like to make an honest woman of me in the next few years. He often jokes that he's going to get me something more practical, like an Engagement Car, but I suspect he's feeling a bit bound by tradition.

For my own part, I have little to no sentimental attachment to the idea of getting The Rock. Jewelry leaves me cold, and "romantic" tradition generally strikes me as clunky. Since I view our finances are largely joined already, the idea of my boyfriend spending a couple thousand on a ring (that I'm fairly likely to lose, to be honest) makes me tense more than anything else.

But at the same time, I cringe at the thought that he would be viewed as cheap, insensitive, or both if I didn't get The Ring. I imagine telling people we're betrothed and then enduring dozens of, "He didn't even get you a ring??!! What kind of man is that?" - or worse, hearing people say that to his face. Call me cowardly, but I'd kinda rather not buck tradition on what's basically an insignificant issue if it means having to defend my choice forever after. I want to point out that I'm not overeager to get legally bound to my boyfriend, but if he wanted to, I'd certainly say yes - and since I think he's going to ask in the nearish future, I'm worrying about it already. Per the ring, the offer in compromise I'm considering is the not-diamond route, but that seems kind of ludicrous in its own way - I mean it's not like I'm dying for a yellow (or pink, or rainbow) sapphire either. How do modern fiances handle this minor dilemma?
 
 
Whisky Priestess
17:15 / 12.04.05
My cold and practical view is that is someone doesn't have the money to get a half-decent ring, they haven't got the money to get married and so shouldn't even be thinking about it. Weddings, mortgages and kids are expensive, and in these cohabiting these days they're also pretty much the only reason to get married.

And rings are nice. Beware of huge rocks though - they will annoy the hell out of you by catching on your clothes whenever you put your hand in your pocket. Try Tiffany - classy and not nearly as expensive as you might think. Here's my pick: a snip at £950.

 
 
Mazarine
17:29 / 12.04.05
My fiance likewise puts the ring pressure on himself. I figure if it's something he wants to do that will make him happy, I shouldn't stop him, though we are agreeing to be quite frugal in our price limits.
 
 
Mistoffelees
17:35 / 12.04.05

I´m always puzzled when I hear "problems" like that. But that´s probably, because I was always the "geek" at school, work, etc., and no peer pressure ever was applied to me (they found other ways to pick on me ).

It is obviously wrong of someone, to expect that your fiancé is paying a lot of money for a symbol, that has no real value for you. So, you two better not give in to that pressure.

Now, that is easily said, but how to do it? Since the expectations of those people are irrational, a rational response will have not the desired effect. That means, you will have to find a good excuse, i.e. lie for these people. Now, since I don´t care about marriage (I couldn´t care less if government and church approve of my relationships), and my parents were not married either, I don´t know enough about "the rules" to come up with an original white lie, but how about that one:

You already said, you are afraid you might lose the ring. So your fiancé and you tell everybody how he gave you that ring and the very next day you lost it. Problem solved!

BTW, H.R.Giger did exactly that. He lost his wedding ring very soon after the wedding, so you would be in good company.
 
 
agvvv
17:36 / 12.04.05
Damn, love that ring Whiskey Priestess
 
 
ibis the being
18:32 / 12.04.05
You already said, you are afraid you might lose the ring. So your fiancé and you tell everybody how he gave you that ring and the very next day you lost it. Problem solved!

Ha! That's pretty clever.

Just for the record, he's not my fiance at this point in time and it sort of gives me the (bad) shivers to have provoked others to refer to him as such!

WP: It's not that we're paupers, we're just... pragmatic. It's more like, if he were going to pony up $2000 for a gift to me, I'd rather it be a vacation (or a car as he suggests in jest). It's also that I do feel societal pressure to do something (or, more accurately, to ask for something) I don't personally place a lot of value on.

I'm surprised that I haven't heard more young couples grappling with this issue, given how many people are living together and sharing finances outside/before marriage. Perhaps I'm alone in my ambivalence toward jewelry?
 
 
Ex
18:41 / 12.04.05
No disrespect to anyone who has already expressed their strong feelings by buying someone else a diamond, but: they freak the shit out of me. As far as I can tell, they take a buckload of energy to mine, and they're notorious for being used to fund civil wars in places like Sierra Leone (link not for the squeamish). You're supposed to be able to get ethical diamonds (like fair trade chocolate, only less tasy) but many critics fear problems with forged certificates.

If you really really want a ring, then I'd think that for the amount you spend on a gem, you could get some gorgeous, original or even specially designed workmanship on a bit of semi-precious metal.

Otherwise, I don't fancy engagement rings myself; I don't want to marry, and I share the fear that I'd only lose the bloody thing. Also, I don't have symbols of any of my other important relationships on display about my person - certainly not in such a recognisable form. Which leaves me, again, laying down the law in an exquisite fashion on something I don't fancy in the first place.
It was more of a wrench to give up nonfairtrade chocolate.
 
 
lekvar
19:23 / 12.04.05
If the "tradition" angle is bothering you, worry no more. According to National Geographic, the gift of diamonds is a relatively recent phenomena, one largely driven by the diamond trade and DeBeers specifically, much like the "right hand ring."

Of course that means nothing once the peer pressure starts applying itself.

[personal anecdote]
My girlfriend and I have been living together for 6 years, together for 7. I told her from the outset that I had absolutely no intention of marrying anybody, ever, but that I was hers for as long as she'd have me. Luckily for me she had no problem with that.

One recurrent issue is her lack of a ring, compounded by the existence of our daughter. The only time she's mentioned it bothering her is when some twit is hitting on her and won't take a hint when she says she's got a boyf. So I suggested we pick up a nice, simple/elegant pair of silver rings to wear, since neither of us is fond of gold.
[/personal anecdote]
 
 
lord henry strikes back
20:13 / 12.04.05
Doozy and I have lived togther for the last three years, and been togther for almost five. I admit that that might not be much by the standards of this thread, but it's all I've got to work with. Neither of us want to get married, mainly for 'rejection of religious conformity' reasons, and so the engagement issue has never been a big one. However, we do wear each other's rings (neither on the 'ring' finger). They both cost under £100, but, mine at least, means a lot to me (last month I dropped it, it fell under the cooker, and I spent about two hours getting it out; I couldn't sleep without it). They are, without wanting to get sappy, a symbol of what we feel for one another, and that should be all that matters.

Love, yes, but an institutional acceptance of that love: why? But that's just me.
 
 
Triplets
20:35 / 12.04.05
Whisky Priestess' answer: who care how the fuck you feel, get a ring.

My answer: Do whatever makes you and your bf comfortable and for god's sake talk to him about it before he sets himself dead on getting you something you don't actually want.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:00 / 12.04.05
The only time she's mentioned it [lack of ring] bothering her is when some twit is hitting on her and won't take a hint when she says she's got a boyf.

Yeah, I've sometimes thought a ring might help with that but I've come to the conclusion that if someone's too pig-headed to take many heavy "my BOY/GIRLFRIEND" hints on board, they won't pay much attention to a couple of millimetres of metal. Someone should make a tiny ring-mounted harpoon gun for firing up annoying people's nostrils or something.
 
 
grant
21:25 / 12.04.05
Cheapskate story: I got one on eBay. Classic art deco ring, white gold (so looks like silver), very intricate with tiny stone in the middle.

I have a cousin whose father made wedding bands from stainless steel, and another pair of friends were married with bands made from recycled gold -- taken from the first generation of mass spectrometers, a scientific tool the use of which the bride's father helped pioneer, which was nicely sentimental.

So I don't think bands need to be necessarily big honking expensive blood-soaked stones.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:15 / 12.04.05
Been together with my gf for about 7 years now. Lived together on and off and have been officially "moved in together" for a year. As we're both not very in jewlry of any sort we've talked about tattoos around the finger in place of a ring... even that's been only in passing.

My 2¢
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:36 / 12.04.05
I'm getting the feeling that you're not really bothered either way about the ring and it's everyone else's attitude towards it that's applying pressure to you. So really you need to take control of the ring. It's a wild factor but it's going to be yours so don't hesitate, drop some hints about how you've always thought that the choice of something you'll wear forever is a mutual thing between two people in love ie. you both have to look and he can't choose one alone. Then you can control price, style, rock and band. Thousands won't be spent and if you're lucky you can find the one piece of jewellery that you don't feel cold towards.
 
 
ibis the being
22:37 / 12.04.05
Well, I think wedding bands are another thing. I don't mind wedding bands, they're part of the marriage ceremony (a ritual that seems to have value to me) and usually pretty plain. The symbolism's different, with both parties wearing them as a sign of love, commitment, etc. The engagement ring's all about a flashy promise, and a signifier to the public that "I'm going to provide for this lady." Maybe this kind of social climate of "let's see the Rock" doesn't exist in other parts of this country / the world? It's not that I worry about not fitting in myself, I just worry about subjecting my boyfriend to the criticism he'd undoubtedly face... ah, well, I should probably just tell him I'd rather elope. Run away to some sunny destination and come back hitched and preggers. Nah, just hitched.
 
 
ibis the being
22:41 / 12.04.05
you both have to look and he can't choose one alone. Then you can control price, style, rock and band.

Ah, we posted at the same time.

You're right about this. I've always loved surprises, but I guess I shouldn't let this go to a surprise. Actually, you know, he'll probably make me help him anyway - he usually does that on Christmas.
 
 
_Boboss
12:00 / 13.04.05
you should see the rock my missus has got, it's a beaut and big as a tooth. heirloom though, wouldn't have paid for it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:16 / 13.04.05
 
 
ibis the being
12:25 / 13.04.05
He's a bit bigger than a tooth.

Actually, sorry to rot my own thread, but had anyone SEEN The Rock on TV lately? He's fucking SKINNY!
 
 
Ex
12:31 / 13.04.05
So really you need to take control of the ring.

No! You believe you can control the ring, but actually, it'll be turning you into a goggle-eyed balletic CGI toadie...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:32 / 13.04.05
That's only diamonds... they suck your brains out.
 
 
HCE
16:41 / 05.05.05
Also, I don't have symbols of any of my other important relationships on display about my person - certainly not in such a recognisable form.

Now this is interesting. I wear my mother's (former) wedding band. It's not recognizable to anybody else, but since I wear it on my right hand I do get asked about it sometimes, and then explain the significance. I have other jewelry that she's given me but only specific pieces carry a particular emotional weight. I wonder why there aren't more markers for significant relationships?
 
 
Persephone
17:01 / 05.05.05
Personally I have this little thing about the woman having to wear this marker & the man not.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
17:52 / 05.05.05
It doesn't have to be a diamond. It can just be adamantium or something, and then you're also supporting the Wakanda economy.
 
 
Aertho
18:35 / 05.05.05
I always planned to get a thick black tattoo around my finger. I'm not much of a jewelry guy, and I like tattoos with meaning, so it made sense.

Diamonds for the girls, tattoos for boys. Even?

At this point, though, I'll neither be getting married —or want something so permanent as a tattoo for something so temporary like marriage.
 
 
Baz Auckland
22:42 / 05.05.05
My parents had wedding bands tatooed a few years ago... We (my siblings and I) thought it was too white trash, but they thought it was romantic, so that's all that's important.

I seem to be engaged right now, but thankfully there are no diamonds involved... It doesn't look like wedding rings will be involved in the end either...
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
02:34 / 06.05.05
I hear they make disposable diamonds now.
 
 
astrojax69
05:19 / 06.05.05
i've been with my partner nine years now. i bought her an antique gold band a couple years after we got together. she was divorced (i guess still is!) and has kids, i have philosophical objections to marriage and so the ring was a nice (and not too expensive) way to symbolise our relationship. she bought me a funky designer silver ring with lots of different size facets a few years back and it is the only jewelry i deign to wear.

but i wonder now the sense of an engagement. i always thought it was to formalise a union that involved dowry, or at least some sort of betrothing that implied imminent nuptials - now people often seem to 'get engaged' but with no wedding date, or some arbitrary date years hence. sounds a bit contrived to me.

if you gone get married, go do it. can't see the point of an engagement at all. bit like a twenty first party - keys to the door my foot. you can vote, drink, fuck and do everything at eighteen most enlightened places, the meaning has lapsed and it is now just archaic and expensive. becoming a 'hallmark' day, like mothers and fathers days.
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:45 / 06.05.05
It doesn't have to be a diamond. It can just be adamantium or something,

heh, a buddy of mine just got his wedding ring and it's made out of Tungsten which in his words "is the closest thing to adamantium I could find". If it ever gets bent or crushed they'd have to cut his finger off to remove it as they'd have to blowtorch the ring to break it... YIKES. Now thats comitment.

PS: Wakanda exports Vibranium.. which would make for a very interesting wedding ring.
 
 
Char Aina
15:46 / 07.05.05
...or want something so permanent as a tattoo for something so temporary like marriage.

dude,
battlescars.
even the tattoos that you feel come to be less relevant to your identity are a part of who you are and how you got there.
thats not to say you are wrong - it is pretty subjective - but maybe you hadnt looked at tatoos like that?
if you get a divorce its going to be someting to remind you of the time you had as a husband/wife, rather than a cattle-brand keeping you on that ranch.

a couple i know got the initial of the others name on the ring finger.
i thought it was pretty rock and roll.

i wouldnt buy a diamond but thats as much because i'm cheap as it is because i'm a communist.
 
  
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