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House of Leaves is a viral meme

 
 
Rev. Jesse
03:06 / 10.09.01
So in Prime Chaos, Hine talks a little about viral lingustic memes and in the book House of Leaves I think we have a very good example of this. Any one else read it? Any thoughts?

-Jesse
 
 
Seth
12:11 / 10.09.01
I’ve read it. I loved it, but I’m afraid I don’t know what a viral linguistic meme is by Phil Hine’s definition (although I could hazard a guess). I was struck by how much it resembled a religious text. I also had the overpowering urge to rewrite it and change things (what the hell: Truant did). I may go back and reread it, adding my own pages (annotations).

Simpsons paraphrase: “The best bit was when the
house was evil"
 
 
Seth
12:17 / 10.09.01
Just found this:

1. Memes are a metaphor and theory for understanding the spreading of ideas.
The word "meme", is parallel to the word "gene" and likens the spreading of ideas to that of the spreading of genes. In this metaphor, ideas are taken to be akin to viruses and "infect" their hosts so that those ideas are spread ever further.

2. Memes are the fundamental replicating units of cultural evolution. A contagious information pattern that replicates by parasitically infecting human minds and altering their behavior, causing them to propagate the pattern. Individual slogans, catch-phrases, melodies, icons, inventions, and fashions are typical memes. An idea or information pattern is not a meme until it causes someone to replicate it, to repeat it to someone else.

3. Memes represent the basic building block of culture in the same way the gene is the basic building block of biological life. On the macro scale, memes are the building blocks of culture and languages, societies, and religions. On the micro scale they are the building blocks of each human mind.

4. An idea considered as a replicator, especially with the connotation that memes parasitize people into propagating them much as viruses do. Use of the term connotes acceptance of the idea that in humans, cultural evolution by selection of adaptive ideas has superseded biological evolution by selection of hereditary traits.

Does Prime Chaos share any similarities?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
13:08 / 10.09.01
I don't understand what you mean, really. I thought a viral meme was an idea that spread with similar characteristics to a virus, yeah? If that's the case, shouldn't the author's typographical style - that's pretty much what the book's about, yes? - should be a lot more common in publishing. I haven't seen Danielwzski's ideas catching on in publishing so much - there'd be a lot of pissed Quark XPress-monkeys if that was the case.

Personally, I think the book hinted at depth that it just couldn't deliver. Unfortunate, given that I really wanted to like it.
 
 
Seth
13:59 / 10.09.01
I may have missed the point entirely, but I thought the whole point of HoL was that it doesn’t deliver the expected “centre” – that the meaning is either created by the reader from the perimeter language provided by the text, or that there is no central meaning (or both). One of the greatest metaphors of the house itself is that you only take out what you bought in with you. I thought that was the whole point behind stuff like the psychological reactions to the people connected with the text (the more deeply involved they became, the more extreme the reaction), hence the whole cult of contributors that developed around Zampano being utterly effected by their shared experience.

As far as the viral meme thing goes, here’s expressionless’ amateur doesn’t know shit two cents:

1. The subtext is certainly there within the novel. The concepts that Zampano collates/creates/collages seem to infect everyone connected to the text to a varying degree. The theme is explored in Lude’s sexual lists, subverted from their original misogynistic meaning when Truant goes back and fills in fictitious details of the girl’s lives. The fact that a history of sexual encounters (forgotten and remembered, relationships and one night stands) has shaped the lives of everyone involved. However, the Magick ain’t for lit crit, so…
2. Most of my immediate circle of friends (definitely the whole Southampton wing of Barbelith) have read the book. Jack the Bodiless gave me my copy. One of my first instincts was to buy a copy as a gift to a friend.
3. The book appears as a collage of influence, intended or not. The lists in the labyrinth chapter seem to indicate that Danielewski is becoming aware of all the subtle influences that have crept into his work, noticed the connections (real and imagined) throughout film and literature.
4. I hear there’s an album (written by Danielewski’s sister, no less). It’s only a matter of time before someone tries to film “The Navidson Record.” My first impulse on finishing was to rewrite it, or add my own stamp to it. I have no idea whether the text has this effect on others.
5. I mentioned it reminded me of a religious text. There is certainly a vast array of mythology, both constructed within the book, collated from research and inferred from the reader (with no readily apparent dividing line between). I imagine that it could be a possible source for anyone interested in magic as a result.

Again, I’m not sure if I’ve hit upon what you had intended, Rev. Jesse. Would you mind explaining further?
 
 
A Bigger Boat
15:36 / 10.09.01
I don't know if this is pertinent or not, but my brother told me about this book.

On a very rare visit he brought it down and I flipped through it. Didn't even read it - I just saw how the text was laid out on the page and knew that I had to own my own copy.

Next time I met J the B.less I said to him: "You have to see this book!" - I dragged him into Waterstones and he flipped through it.

As you've heard above, he bought himself a copy, bought copies as presents, and those who received it now have an instinct to lend it out / buy it for someone they like.

Sounds like a freakin virus to me.

The question I now have to answer is: given the above, do I remind my girlfriend that she wants to read my copy?
Will I find pods under my bed?
Is the slightly disappointed feeling I got at the end of the book (and I know I'm not the only one) therefore designed to cloud the fact that you're now infected from your consciousness?
Am I going too far?
 
 
Rev. Jesse
02:02 / 14.09.01
Well, the virus may not have affected typesets, but it is a NYT bestseller and just about everyone who looks at it wants to read it.

Are we being enchanted by Danielewski to buy his book? Is is possible to encode a spell in a book or poem or other work of art? Has anyone else tried it?

-Jesse
 
 
Seth
13:18 / 14.09.01
quote:Originally posted by Rev. Jesse:
Is is possible to encode a spell in a book or poem or other work of art? Has anyone else tried it?



Yes, and yes.

I’ve been trying to write songs that have intrinsic magical qualities for a couple of years now (when I say songs, read as lyrics or poetry. No music yet, but when there is I may post some more about how the sound effects the content). The idea was to create a kind of living entity through the song, who interacts and forms a relationship with the reader/listener. The important thing was to distance myself from the creation – not to write dishonestly or dispassionately, but to get to the point at which the umbilical is severed and the new being starts to survive on its own. Coming back to the songbeing after a while away is interesting, as it develops and interacts in new ways.

These experiments were done for a few reasons:

 I wanted to be able to channel God into my songwriting. The idea was to remove aspects of myself that weren’t in alignment with Him, in order to hammer the song into a sharper blade. The songs therefore contain elements of prophecy.
 To explore hymn/mantra. There are many theories relating to changing yourself and the world around you through language (sigils, hypersigils, NLP, curses, etc. In this application, the hymn/mantra becomes manifest in life through the action of singing. I’ve mainly used this to effect personal change (one of my most successful songs – “ Scalphunter” was about circumcision as a metaphor for worship, warfare and consecration. Needless to say, the song works its way inside your subconscious rewriting attitudes and programming). Saul Williams uses this as an argument against violence, sexism, drugs and crime in rap – the concept that the artists are speaking these memes back into the culture and making them take deeper root.
 Have a go at the hypersigil concept. I tried some of this stuff out in a song I wrote last week. Lyrically, it used a lovely technique that Parliament of Fools mentioned offhand in the pub: the technique used in cave painting, in which the artist holds the pigment in their mouths and spits it at their hand held flat against the cave wall. The idea is that it not only leaves a permanent mark, but also merges the hand with the wall, as the paint makes the two indistinguishable. It was theorised that the action enabled the artist’s spirit to make contact with the spirit of the rock. In my song, I adapted this to writing across my hand as it was laid flat against the paper, making contact with the spirit of the piece, the songbeing. I asked God to bless the work, to work within its language as a self-developing prayer, to bring about what I chose to write in future. Kind of like a song to add charge to all my other songs.
 To play with the possibilities of language. Most of my songs are an exercise in underwriting, or using precise words, or words that are loaded with connotation and meaning.

I plan to extend some of these ideas into a study of speaking in tongues. I’m fascinated by the idea of heightened language that works in a different dimension to learned languages. That by using tongues you speak the unutterable, and that those who interpret often only download a facet of what is said. As tongues is a spirit language it is possible to directly verbalise paradox and subjects that are normally only possible through a vast volume of utterance. Grant Morrison used an analogy in the Invisibles, “if our words are like circles, theirs are like bubbles” . I take this to be an extension of quantum uncertainty principles as they apply to language. The idea being that it is possible to talk about invisible things in human language by talking around their perimeter until their shape emerges (the circle), but it is infinitely easier in tongues (talking as a sphere fully encapsulates the subject, tracing its three dimensional shape). As people download the tongues back so that it can be reprocessed back into learned language, they only catch a cross-section of the bubble, translating it back into the circle (I also like the analogy because sphere has connotations of completeness, whereas circle immediately makes one think of “talking in circles,” i.e. the problems that occur when trying to verbalise the impossible. This is part of the reason why I chose expressionless as my name – the need to verbalise the impossible, to give shape to the invisible, and feeling as though you are caught without a means of workable communication).

To cut a lot story short on the tongues front (too late!), I thought it would be a wicked idea to sing a song in tongues, then offer an e-mail address or telephone number for an answering system where listeners/readers can leave their interpretation. I’d also like to use treated tongues as part of the music, perhaps in place of more commonly used instrumentation (synths, strings, percussives, etc).

Of course, this is only the tip of a very large iceberg. I’d be fascinated to hear other people’s ideas.
 
 
A Bigger Boat
16:45 / 14.09.01
OK, I'm WWAAAYY out of my depth here.

I know jack about spells, and this thread had only just introduced me to memes, but I know a little bit about stringing words into sentences. Sentences into paragraphs...yada yada.
Firstly want to agree with expressionless (who is obviously light years ahead of my two penneth) - sure you can put spells into poetry, songs, prose, painting, prayer, nursery rhymes, bedtime stories.

Personally I've never consciously tried to do it, but if you take up writing and actually work at it you can become pretty handy with qwerty. It's not too long before language starts to feel 'mushy' and malleable, and you can start bending sentence structure to your will. No newsflash there! Shock horror as writers admit to using language for own ends!!
However, once you get to a point where you seriously want to create something - something whole - and you want to explain its shape by wrapping language around it - then the interesting stuff happens. You develop a gland somewhere, or a lightbulb over your head, some kind of 7th sense, that begins to insinuate whether or not a paragraph, or a scene or a sentence is right. Now is this you honing the prose to your initial intent? Or is the thing being created guiding the use of language? I think that Michelangelo used to chip away at his marble until the marble began to talk to him of the shapes hidden in it (that might be untrue, though).
Does this have any bearing on spellcasting? From what I've gathered - snooping around here for a while in a dirty mac - spellcasting demands very specific wording. Do stories demand the same? Is, perhaps, a writer's (lack of) satisfaction with a finished piece have any bearing on the invisible thing the story was before it was put into words, and how successfully it's been described in circles rather than spheres (to use expressionless' images)

You can tell from all these questions that I'm bumbling around my own shoelaces here.

What's bloody interesting for me is what expressionless leads us ont owith the notion of tongues - going beyond language. Same rules? Do you guys think it would be easier or more difficult to spell cast without words?

[ 15-09-2001: Message edited by: Parliament of Fools ]
 
 
A Bigger Boat
07:41 / 15.09.01
Author talks a little about book here. I think he touches on a couple of the subjects up for debate.
 
 
Analogues On
10:25 / 15.09.01
Like Parliament of Fools, I am out of my depth on this one, but feel compelled to post…

I know he’s probably a bit passé round these parts, but TmcKenna once said that we “ can move no faster than the evolution of our language” and to me this seems to be a central idea here. Whether this means changing the rules of linguistics or translation to accommodate pan-sensory idioms or creating new metaphors in order to express paradox or the Unutterable, I don’t know. I do very much like the idea of meshing sigils and spells into the codex (kabbalah? “coded language” by Saul Williams?).

I also love the idea that our language is something that we can actively take part in and guide to our own ends. The question is – how do we undertake such a huge and complex task? Should we direct it consciously or let it evolve itself?

I suppose Rev. Jesse’s viral memes are already at work in txt sMs, e-mail, rap, internet, media, logo, branding, etc. But to what end? If used for evolutionary purposes then we should all climb aboard, but in our age of the soundbite …? (cue my favourite Franti oxymoron: “military intelligence”, and my favourite Morrisms: This was a day they would never forget, not even if someone erased their minds with little mind rubbers... Fact Me Hard! ... Institutionalised cruelty is one thing, but the twisted brain-wrong of a one-off man mental is quite another.).
Language is as effective a tool of ignorance as it is illumination.
Hell, marketing/ advertising agencies have been flogging shit to our collective unconsciousness for years – hypoallergenic, pro-V, special formula, light-yet-filling, no-more-tears, just-for-the-taste-of-it, wash-and-go, ,
<cue jingle, smile to camera, fade to coma>

There’s a great little jamming scene in La Haine that I love where the characters pass an advertising billboard with <“The World is Yours!”> emblazoned above a picture of the globe. One of the guys takes a marker to it and changes it to <”The World is Ours!”>, simple but beautiful. (note that <this> should have been in French but my pan-cultural-inguistic skills are, to use a Belfastism, total balls.)

Something else I find great courage and hope in, from The Orange Tree by Carlos Fuentes:

“The world was created by 2 gods, one named Heart of Heaven, the other named Heart of Earth. When they met, between them they made all things fertile by naming them. They named the earth, and the earth was created. Creation as it was named, dissolved and multiplied, calling itself by turns fog, cloud, or whirlpool of dust…..

The gods filled with joy when they divided the waters and caused the animals to be born. But none of this possessed the same thing which had created it: language…..

And so people were born, with the purpose of sustaining divine creation day by day by means of the same thing that brought forth the earth, the sky, and al things in them: language.


Or as The Lord Morris did quoth:
Doctor Fact is knocking at the door. Someone, please, let the man in!
 
 
A Bigger Boat
20:41 / 20.09.01
quote:Originally posted by Rev. Jesse:
Are we being enchanted by Danielewski to buy his book? Is is possible to encode a spell in a book or poem or other work of art? Has anyone else tried it?


I'm really disappointed that no one's running with this.

Thanks for the reply R/R/Lord - I think it's a good thing for people without prerequisite background reading like you an' I to throw in our two penneths occasionally. Chris Morris as a linguistic spellsmith?
John Fashanu. John Fashanu. John Fashanu. John Fashanu.
(hope you get that)

Anyway, to the quote at the top, and the point: is it possible to put a spell into a post on a bulletin board?

Shazam.
 
  
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