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What is "spirit"?

Henningjohnathan

22:29 / 14.03.05

I've been looking for literature on this theoretical idea. Though most religions, myth and mysticism is concerned with the idea of the spirit, the spiritual or the spirit world, could there be a physical or material component to spiritual existence?

For example, if the mind is a process that emerges from the physical electrochemical processes of the nervous system then could a kind of mind emerge from other physical processes including, but not dependent upon, the minds of many people?

Basically, is it possible that our view of God and the spirit world is the result of interaction between early man and something like conscious forces of nature that are able to possess, inhabit or emerge from the interaction between living and unliving things? Could the animistic view of the world be an accurate way to look at nature, though of course, there would be no way to prove whether any occurance was part of spiritual determination or simply unconscious natural activity?

Basically, I'm looking at the very ancient myths of the Middle East and on into Ancient Greece and I wonder if God is something that emerged from man or if it is possible that God (or the gods) has or had a separate existence from humanity and both are developing together.

It seems most likely that God is part of a basic human urge, but it also seems to be an idea with a life of its own.

What is "spirit"? Is it totally imaginary or does it have a kind of independent life outside the mind and in the physical world?

12:23 / 15.03.05

"The circle that unites the pentagrams is drawn in white to represent Spirit, the Element that binds and separates the other four Elements."
Taken from here.

I seem to recall that was the definition used by Dee, but can't find a quick reference via google.

rising and revolving

16:15 / 15.03.05

If the circle surrounding the pentagram is spirit, what's the fifth point?

19:38 / 15.03.05

The circle unites the four pentagrams that are drawn in the LBRP, not the five points of the pentagram itself, which have enough meanings assigned to them (including the four elements and spirit) to fill a book.

As for the question what is "spirit"? Is it totally imaginary or does it have a kind of independent life outside the mind and in the physical world?

I do not believe that spirit, as you call it, is imaginary. I am more imaginary than the spirit that makes what I call me (I hate this, it gets so confusing) more than electrified flesh. I also believe that to a certain extent, we can only conceive of what we can conceive of. So you end up with widely accepted views of god, spirit, etc. But they're filtered through human perception and not necessarily the truth. As are we all, for now. Not that that's a bad thing...

22:50 / 15.03.05

What is "spirit"? Is it totally imaginary or does it have a kind of independent life outside the mind and in the physical world?

A spirit is the non-physical traits of someone - if you were to simply change the body of someone, you could still tell it was their spirit from their actions, memories, and thoughts.

I don't believe it's imaginary, as I've met ancestral spirits that have no reason to be in existence as only in my head - yet I've found they've actually existed many years before me. However, I'm not sure if there is a physical manifestation of the spirit outside of the body - I've never seen such a thing happening.

About the independence of spirit from mind, I'm not quite sure. To me, the mind is the spirit. The brain is simply our filtered connection to the mind.

rising and revolving

14:09 / 16.03.05

Gale : Thanks for pointing out the blindingly obvious to the person who was too lazy to follow the link ... oops.

As far as I'm concerned "spirit" from a ceremonial magic point of view is a different thing to the kind of "spirit" henningjohn is asking about. I could (of course!) be wrong on this - CM-Spirit feels far more like a fifth elemental quality (which underlies and reinforces the others) than the usual understanding of "spirit" from a lay perspective, at least in my opinion.

Henningjohnathan

15:16 / 16.03.05

That's sort of what I'm getting at. And it's not really an either/or question as far as physical versus imaginary.

My starting point is the relationship between mind and brain. The mind, consciousness, is not the brain, but it is a non-physical system that emerges from the electro-chemical interactions in the brain and nervous system. Could a similar system, conscious and reflective, emerge from external physical occurances (the elements, so to speak)? If so, could that system consciously move its basis between different physical objects (an elemental in a way) and, in fact, possess people and animals, stones and plants?

Finally, the big question is this- are these "entities" what we encounter when we encounter Gods and Spirits? Was this the God Moses met in the desert?

Or, is religious and "spiritual" experience an expression of subconscious urges inherent to our nervous system and collective consciousness? This is essentially what I mean by imaginary. In this sense, spirituality emerges from the superorganism, the human race, in the same way that the mind emerges from the brain.

Or, another option, could the "spiritual component" in the human organism be a part of a larger spiritual world that also acts independent of the human race?