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"Proof"

 
 
RiffRaff
17:06 / 27.08.01
[de-lurk]

In reference to the previous topic, I think most people don't believe in magic(k) because nothing has ever happened to them that "proves" that magick exists.

For example, when I first started experimenting semi-seriously with chaos magick, I had a job at a toy-and-novelty store, mainly working in the warehouse. One day I was sitting on the loading dock on break, while my co-worker Mark was next door getting coffee for everyone. I was bored, and decided to try to turn myself invisible. (Well, why not?) So, I started chanting in my head "I'm invisible, you can't see me, I'm not here, I'm invisible," etc. This went on for a couple of minutes, and then Mark opened the door. It was a metal garage-type door, very loud, and the noise surprised/shocked me - my mind went blank, and I just watched Mark silently as he strolled in with the coffees. He looked around, put down the drinks, went out to the main store, then came back, and looked around again. Then he turned away and started sugaring his coffee. After a moment, he said something about the line at the coffee place, turned around, and looked surprised. He shrugged, and turned back to his coffee. Then, I spoke up in reply to his comment, and he swivelled around and gave me a hell of a strange look.

His explanation of what happened was this: He came in, looked around, and didn't see me. So he went to see if I was in the store, but I wasn't, so he went back to the loading dock. As he was fixing his coffee, he thought he saw me out of the corner of his eye, and made the comment about the coffee shop, but when he turned around I wasn't there. So he went back to his coffee - but then I spoke, and when he looked, there I was.

I hadn't moved from the chair. It was the only chair on the loading dock, pretty much right out in the middle of the floor. It was brightly-lit, and my clothes weren't some sort of chameleon-like match for the upholstery. The chair was where he expected me to be sitting, and he looked *right at me*, several times, and could not see me.

So, what's the explanation? I can only think of one way it could happen: magick. So, whenever I'm working on sigils or whatever, and I start to wonder if maybe there's no such thing as magick, and maybe I'm just being silly and/or insane, I say "Well, I *did* turn myself invisible, goddamn it." If only I could do it in _useful_ situations.

My question: does anyone else have any magick-affirming experiences like this?

cheers,
--Riff
 
 
Rex City-zen
17:34 / 27.08.01
Plenty.
In fact,once I was in California and Toronto at the same time------
it was very afirming.And strange too!
 
 
FinderWolf
18:29 / 27.08.01
Well, RiffRaff (GOD I loved that old animated Heathcliff show -- the theme song, which I haven't thought of in about 12 years -- just popped into my head, a magical act in and of itself ), here's my first magick-affirming experience (and so far, the only one that was the direct result of a sigil or other magical thing undertaken with specific intent)....

WARNING: This is a long tale; I want to get the details in so it has the full impact. Plus, it's therapeutic

Several months ago, I did one of my first sigils ever (maybe #2 or so). I haven't hed any real successful or lasting romantic relationships since my first Big Love, who I hadn't spoken to in six years. I didn't do anything wrong, didn't do wrong by her, our relationship fizzled years ago when she stopped putting effort into it and our compatiblity was called into question. I saw her once in person a year after we broke up (and were living far apart, in different states), and it was one of those things where she was kind of a bitch and I thought, "OK, this is a good reminder of WHY we broke up!"

Nevertheless, since this was the first love for me (they tend to resonate, as you know) and I haven't encountered anything resembling real quality since, every once in a while I would pine away, thinking about this person. Some friends have said "Do you think being so hung up on her interfered with relationships after her?" I honestly don't think so, since I really tried and was completely open in each relationship. I certainly didn't spend time in the present relationship thinking about my ex. And although I say I was hung up on her, it was more of a deep "lost love" thing; not something that I feel interfered with my ability to develop relationships in the present.

She basically seemed to want to write me out of her life and block our whole relationship out; since that last time I saw her in person, about once every year/year and a half I would send a harmless little card with an innocuous message (pretty much with the intent, hey, can we at least be acquaintances and send a Christmas card, keep in touch at some distant level??). I think only my first card was mushy. Once or twice I called her - she wasn't home, left a message on the machine, which was probably all for the best since a conversation could have just been a mess.

So my point is that once every year/year and a half, I would feel this great connection to her and want to at least catch up as old friends. And I would either call or writer her, again only once every 1 1/2 years or so.
Never heard back from her.

Even though I'm not remotely a stalker, I did what many of us have probably done - look up old girlfriends on the Net and see if they're on any sites or anything (i.e. job stuff, activities, etc.). I saw a picture of her once a few years ago on a social work site (we met doing social work together, working with American Indians in Minnesota), and seeing an image of her again after so many years (by this time it was around 4 years) was just like a punch in the gut, emotionally. I remember feeling like I had the emotional wind knocked out of me, getting all misty at some random temp. job at a hotel in NYC.

Through it all, I couldn't shake the feeling I had some deep connection with her, even though she was in the Midwest and I was in NYC. Typical fantasies about running into her when were in our late 30s and getting back together, etc. etc. (you know the drill)

I really just wanted some closure, or to be friends, or to at least know that she thought of me as a remotely important person in her life. But I never heard from her. I'd see a little tibit in a newsletter published by the volunteer organization that we worked for -- maybe one tidbit of news every 3 years.

I did a sigil with the goal that she would contact me. This was, as I said, maybe 3, 3 1/2 months ago. If she did contact me at all, it would be very unsual, since she hadn't for six years.

After a few weeks, nothing happened on this particular front. Within about 2 months, I had pretty much forgotten about it. Forgot that I even did the sigil. My strong desire to have some contact her had mostly gone away......I didn't think about her much at all.

Just before (or after, can't recall) I did the sigil, I asked Bad Ass Mofo Fairy, who was doing rune casts/readings for 'Lithers here, if I should contact her.

His response was, "Well, you might not have to, she will contact you eventually. And it might have to deal with a death. That will be the impetus for her to contact you."

"Huh," I thought. We didn't share many friends in common, just some very distant acquaintances.

A few weeks ago, on a Friday or a Saturday, I had a flash thought that seemed to come out of nowhere. I thought "I've read about how magic gives you what you sought, but not necessarily how you wanted it or worded it. And I'm about to hear from her. But she won't contact me via phone -- I'm going to read about her in print, and it won't be a card or letter from her." I then realized, "Well, the only print medium in which I'd hear from her/about her is that newsletter that comes out maybe twice a year from the volunteer group."

Then I had another flash thought that I would read this thing about her in about 3 days. This thought also came out of nowhere. What was odd was, they had just published one of their newsletters a few months ago, and they came out with VERY long spaces inbetween issues.

I thought, "Well, these thoughts definitely seem to have come from Somewhere Else. But maybe it's just wishful thinking. We'll see what happens."

Sure enough, two days later, on a Monday, I come home to find a manilla envelope from that volunteer group. It's heavy, feels like it has a newsletter in it. I got kind of freaked out. The feeling that my desire had become manifest in reality just hit me like a bolt of electricity. I opened the envelope.

In the update column, there was a full paragraph about her. She was MARRIED the day after my birthday, 2000. Our first date was my birthday, years earlier. On my birthday 2000, I was at the worst of a very difficult time. The utter disparity of the way we spent Sept. 15-16 in the year 2000 seemed a way for the universe to be saying, "You couldn't be father apart in your journeys......really let this go."

Reading that she was married was both heartbreaking and a relief. Here was the closure that I needed for so many years, gone were the fantasies of a happy reuinion when we were older and wiser.

Since that day, I have felt much lighter, emotionally, on the subject of this girl. I can look back on that time as a happy memory, but it doesn't come attached with the powerful heartbreak it used to. It took this for me to let that memory go, more than I ever have.

Now, one could say "Well, that's not magic, you said there were updates about her once every few years anyway." But this was the most substantial of maybe 3 updates in this newsletter. And it was coming at a time when I was drawing full circle in a lot of areas in my life. And the coincidence (as well as my premonition of receiving that word of her) of getting this a few months after requesting it, when in six years I had heard basically nothing, cannot be denied.

Also, interestingly enough, my request was that she contact me. Now, I'm not so egotistical, self-centered or deluded to think that she wrote her wedding announcement with me prominent in her mind ("This'll finally show him he has no place in my life and it's long, long over!!!"). But there's only a small group of about 100 people who get that newsletter and read it; and I'm sure that at least for one split second, she knew that I would read that announcement.

This was the first and only time in the past several months, as I've started to experiment with and learn about magic, that I felt I knew the feeling of seeing will made manifest in reality.

I know that was long. If you read this far, thanks for sticking it out. Other sigils I have done on more mundane things have not worked, but I see looking back that perhaps they were not very specific. (The famous guideline "ask specific, expect general" seems to apply here.)
 
 
FinderWolf
18:30 / 27.08.01
Hey Rex - California and Toronto at the same time? Care to elaborate on that?
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
22:25 / 27.08.01
I've used the invisible mantra with some success. It sometimes works on people who are preoccupied, but never on dogs. Weird.

My first sigil failed, but every one after has had it's goal accomplished. Well, I had a half-success. I wanted to see someone in a dream, but instead saw not this person but everyone connected to this person. Quite a large cast, as I recall.
 
 
Lothar Tuppan
14:14 / 28.08.01
The searching for 'proof' in your own practice is, for me, one of the main reasons to do results based thaumaturgy in addition to more illuminative thaumaturgic and/or theurgic rituals.

When you get to the point where more of your mundane thaumaturgic rituals are working (even the old 'pack of crisps' rituals) then you can be fairly certain that your more intangible rituals that defy 'proof' (such as doing a ritual for increasing your spiritual enlightenment etc.) will work with a similar level of success.
 
 
RiffRaff
16:20 / 30.08.01
"Pack of crisps" rituals?


Re: invisibility - I think the key that made the mantra work was the noise from the door opening - the sudden shock that blanked out my thoughts. A sort of insta-gnosis, maybe? Tough to duplicate - it's rather like the instructions for flying from 'Hitchhiker's Guide'.

Actually, you could do a scientificish test with a cell phone - have a friend wait outside your house with a cellphone while you sit in an unspecified room inside, with a loud telephone nearby. Your friend waits for any period of time between three minutes and ten minutes, then calls your house and lets it ring once, then enters the house and goes from room to room to see if he can find you. Hopefully, the unexpected noise of the phone ringing should shock you out of your meditation - then you keep your thoughts as quiet as possible until your friend comes to the room you're in and either sees you or doesn't.
 
 
Enamon
20:22 / 30.08.01
quote:Originally posted by RiffRaff:
So, what's the explanation? I can only think of one way it could happen: magick.


I like that. If we can't explain how we do something we usually call it magick. I think the usual definition of magick should be "Magick - n. That which we do that we can not explain how we do it." So, by this definition, what you did is "magick" until we find some in-depth, detailed, provable explanation.
 
 
SMS
22:29 / 30.08.01
Most of the explanations of science are nothing more than quantifying what we observe.

Things like, say, the law of inertia. The law of inertia holds only very specific reference frames. These are called inertial reference frames. Inertial reference frames are defined by "those frames in which the law of inertia is true."

This is basic mechanics, the science we seem to have the best grasp of. All of mechanics is like this. F=ma. What's a force? Something that accelerates a mass? How much mass does something have? Measured by applying a force, and seeing how much it accelerates the object. How much does it accelerate? Well, get into an inertial reference frame and measure it.

There's no explanation in here. Just description, and prediction.
 
 
Mordant Carnival
18:17 / 31.08.01
quote:Originally posted by SMatthewStolte:
Most of the explanations of science are nothing more than quantifying what we observe.

Things like, say, the law of inertia. The law of inertia holds only very specific reference frames. These are called inertial reference frames. Inertial reference frames are defined by "those frames in which the law of inertia is true."

This is basic mechanics, the science we seem to have the best grasp of. All of mechanics is like this. F=ma. What's a force? Something that accelerates a mass? How much mass does something have? Measured by applying a force, and seeing how much it accelerates the object. How much does it accelerate? Well, get into an inertial reference frame and measure it.

There's no explanation in here. Just description, and prediction.


Good point. When you get right down to it, science doesn't really explain things as such- that's not what it's for. It's a way of describing stuff so we can have a stab at what might happen next.

[ 31-08-2001: Message edited by: Mordant Carnival ]
 
  
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