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Constantine Vs. Hellblazer

 
 
Henningjohnathan
18:28 / 02.03.05
This is not really a "which did you like better" thread.

After seeing the movie CONSTANTINE, I was really disappointed in the story but enjoyed the tranformation from a working class British magician dealing with all sorts of mystical threats to a film niorish occult private detective caught between demons and angels.

I feel that the movie Constantine has the same relation to the comic book that Rick Deckard of BLADE RUNNER has to the main character PK Dick's novel, DO ANDROIDS DREAM OF ELECTRIC SHEEP.

Even though I wouldn't like to see the movie again, I would like to see more of that particular John Constantine and the world in which he operates. I don't think that the current comic book should change anything, but I would like to see a separate book or comic about the character from the movie that set film noir and pulp crime themes and narratives in the cold war between the underworld and heaven.

Would you read an American CONSTANTINE series or mini-series? Would Vertigo even consider publishing one?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
18:35 / 02.03.05
It would depend on how the title was pronounced.

If it was Constan-Tyne, then yes. If Teen, no.
 
 
sleazenation
20:18 / 02.03.05
Short answer - no.

I'm not sure why you'd want to see a miniseries based on what appears to be by all accounts a not to great film adaptation. If it is because as the abstract would seem to point to, you want to see more American occult characters, there are already plenty of those to play around with (from Daimien Hellstorm to Zatana)...
 
 
Ganesh
20:28 / 02.03.05
No. I think Constantine's Englishness was a primary defining feature. Without that, it all slides into sub-Angel Heart bog-standard noir territory.
 
 
Bastard Tweed
12:25 / 03.03.05
If I may, I'd like to qualify the Englishness that Ganesh refers to by specifying it in particular as the distinct fatalism the character has as being intrinsically English. Irradicable class system and all that.
 
 
Henningjohnathan
13:55 / 03.03.05
But that fatalism is also completely in keeping with the noirish American private detective as well ("Jake, it's Chinatown."). It is not intrinsically British. The movie adaptation is not great but I found that the movie Constantine was a refined version of the basic character for the noir detective drama. The movie was pretty bad, but I think the character could work in a freer medium like comics or novel than in a blockbuster movie. What I wanted to see was Chinatown, or LA Confidential or Miller's Crossing, with demons and angels rather than gangsters.

And though there are other occult characters, few are cast in the same mold (even Phantom Stranger doesn't quite fit) and all have a long history. Constantine, from the movie, is virtually a brand new character considering how little he has in common with the comic.
 
 
sleazenation
14:08 / 03.03.05
What I wanted to see was Chinatown, or LA Confidential or Miller's Crossing, with demons and angels rather than gangsters.

Isn't this what happens in Ted McKeever's Metropol?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
18:44 / 03.03.05
Henningjonathan- I'm with Ganesh on this one. Yes, there's a fatalism to the American noir heroes too, but JC's is, the way I read it, a peculiarly British one. It's more a "oh shit, it's drizzling again" type fatalism. Not so much grim'n'gritty, as grim'n'gloomy. And the class system thing- totally. The difference between yr JCs and yer Sam Spades is like the difference between Crass and Black Flag. (Not a total tangent- even though I always find the Hellblazer "Mucous Membrane" stuff a bit cringeworthy, I always think of JC as a quintessentially punk character, even though he's all grown up now).
 
 
Henningjohnathan
16:37 / 04.03.05
Personally, I don't see much difference between the characters of John Constantine in HELLBLAZER and Tom in MILLER'S CROSSING.
 
 
Benny the Ball
17:02 / 04.03.05
My favourite character in a film. However there is a pained cockiness in John, whereas Tom really is looking out for Albert Finney. Tom's cockiness comes from the belief that he gets it more than anyone else, whereas John's comes from his understanding that nobody gets it like he gets it.
 
 
makingbombs
00:16 / 05.03.05
The saving grace of the movie for me was the thought-experiment that it was a cheesy "WHAT IF... JOHN CONSTANTINE WAS AMERICAN?". It makes the changes seem a little like genius, instead of just proof the filmmakers missed the point. (Of course he has a holy shotgun! How could he NOT have a holy shotgun?)
 
 
iconoplast
16:22 / 05.03.05
I think the what if premise worked really well.

My friend and I agreed to close our eyes before the movie started and imagine Oatu the Watcher on screen, saying "The Multiverse is a tangled skien of blah blah blah and WHAT IF John Cnstantine had been born Keanu Reeves?"

...then I decided the movie also needed Oatu's wrap-up afterwards, where he lets us know, with a sly wink, that "...two weeks later he was up to his old tricks, two packs a day and trying to get to help him find the virgin ein sof."
 
 
Ganesh
09:59 / 06.03.05
When I say "Englishness", yes, I'm partly talking about Constantine's rumpled fatalism but also the more literal stuff that roots the character, for me, in Thatcher/Reagan era Britain: the slightly-naff red-double-decker-bus Londony touches; the satirical juxtaposing of 'greed is good' City yuppies and demons; the sense of the underground (New Age types in caravans) being threatened by sinister, often Government-aligned agencies (references to the Battle of the Beanfield, etc.), creepy conspiracy theory Christianity. For me, Delano's version of the character conjures up a relatively specific 'feel' of time and place, and I think a lot is lost by shifting him to an anonymised noir context.

The same thing would happen if one took Tintin or Nikolai Dante and transposed them to modern-day Hollywood America. Shorn of specific cultural context, the characters become (more) generic and, to me, much less interesting.
 
 
sleazenation
12:21 / 06.03.05
Hey, I've got a great idea - lets take The world's greatest detective, Sherlock Holmes that perculiarly Victorian/Edwardian English super sleuth and make him American - we can put him in modern Florida and call it 'Sherlock Holmes in Miami'*. He could use all the latest forensic techniques and he could be really successful with the ladies. Of course we'd have to lose the cocaine addiction...

*If you can tell me what this refers to you will win friends and influence people...
 
 
DavidXBrunt
15:15 / 06.03.05
Cruise of the Gods.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
18:32 / 06.03.05
and I demand that we recognise that Constantine is at heart a scouser (LIVERPOOL RESIDENT)

We do the fatalistic, downtrodden, 'loser' just about better than anybody in the UK.....and we are sarcastic bastards as well

Constantine was a Liverpool Lad who moved to Northhampton and then London, he has been a relative outsider from his early years and that must be one weird accent he has, if he has picked up the lingo from all his residences

Scousers speak fast and nasal, from the evidence of Alan Moore, people from Northhampton nearly have a Birmingham type drawl and then London accents are more brash and far back


strange mixture

haven't seen the movie but the thought of Keanu doing any of the above makes me chuckle. He is wooden enough to carry of 'Worzel'eze' and that is about it

As for the question in hand, why not?

I probably wouldn't buy it but DC have enough Elseworlds' titles and it might work as a commercial success. Sad thing is I hope that this does not consume the original idea............
NO on second thoughts, we have had enough US re-writing of historical fact and I'll be damned if they fuck up a great idea with Hollywood driven nonsense

No I have changed my mind, I hope the DO NOT do this
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:29 / 07.03.05
Well that's settled then.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
16:34 / 07.03.05
Constantine was a Liverpool Lad who moved to Northhampton and then London,

Surely Newcastle and Louisiana must feature.
 
  
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