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I'm very worried about a homeless man that I walk past every day...

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tom-karika nukes it from orbit

19:33 / 25.02.05

Every day when I walk in to Uni. I go pass the same homeless guy sitting under a wall next to a footpath. Every day he begs me for money, and every day I shake my head an walk past. It's been very cold the last few days and the guy is looking iller and iller. He coughs like cement mixer.

What can I do? I can give him a couple of quid, and hope he goes and buys some hot food. But then surely he will expect a couple of quid tomorrow, and I don't have a lot of money to give him.

I can talk to him, but this guy is really close to my house, and I don't want the guy coming round my house. That might sound bad, but I don't.

I'd usually let this sort of thing pass; I buy my fair share if Big Issues, I give money to people collecting for Shelter. But this guy almost certainly recognises me by now. Every time he begs me for change his voice is hoarser and his cough is louder.

Is there an authority I can tell about him? a charity? I imagine the police would just move him or something, think I'm some sort of NIMBY who doesn't like smelly tramps. Thing is, I reckon I'm going to walk past a corpse in a couple of mornings time.

19:40 / 25.02.05

Damn. This is a puzzle; I'm not sure what I'd do in you situation. Your humanity demands that you do something, but what? I think if someone here can help you find the right organization to contact, you can explain your concerns and motivations to them in a way that avoids the whole NIMBY factor--as you did just now, for us.

good luck on this...

19:41 / 25.02.05

If you're concerned about giving him money, try making him a peunutbutter and jelly sandwich. It's less expensive than just giving him money and you can be sure that he's eating instead of drinking his dinner.

19:42 / 25.02.05

This could be helpful
I have no other practical advice to impart to you.. though there is a free phone number on this site that may be able to give you more direct/specific advice.

rising and revolving

19:47 / 25.02.05

Give him some cough drops. Buy a pack, take one out so it doesn't look like you're doing it in as premeditated a fashion, then give 'em to him next time you go by.

I did exactly this today.

But then I generally try to build a relationship with my local homeless - and this is overall a good thing.

tom-karika nukes it from orbit

20:06 / 25.02.05

I've thought about giving him some food or cough drops. To be honest the two big problems I have are:

1. He might expect me to give him food or even money every day, and
2. He might be a scary nutter who wants to come in my house.

I know that 2. is cruel and paranoid of me. I suppose it is just cowardice; I hope you can understand.

I'm thinking this through though, and to be honest he sounded so fucking ill when I went past him this evening that I've decided that tomorrow morning I will give him some food and some cough remedies when I go pass tomorrow. I've had a dose of cold for the last few days, so I'm well stocked up on cough sweets; and I can give him a couple of chocolate bars or something.

Mind you, the guy might have something worse than a touch of flu; feels a bit pathetic giving him couple of packs of Tunes. Suppose it could even be TB.

See, I'm lapsing into paranoid nimby again. Can't go near him, might have TB, he might eat all my kittens... I really need a conscience overhaul.

Eyes filled with Sandalphon: What do you think about the premeditated thing? Is the problem that he will most likely expect me to bring him more money/food in the future if I'm obviously going out my way to help him? Or is it offensive in some way...

20:25 / 25.02.05

(threadrot)I was walking home about two months ago and stopped when a homeless man asked for some change which I gave him ... he was wearing slippers and complained of the cold etc. So I went home and got him a pair of my shoes and two pairs of extra thick socks. Which was good and grand. Two days later I saw him again sans shoes and socks. I wondered if they were stolen? or possibly if the whole slipper thing was his shtick? If so he is a bastard, I could have used those shoes.(/threadrot)

20:25 / 25.02.05

1. He might expect me to give him food or even money every day,
Yeah, he might. But then he's probably already used to not getting anything from you. A PB&J sandwich will cost you 50 cents a day and keep him marginally alive. The guilt of knowing that you could have done something about his caugh, but didn't, could be more expensive than you think.

2. He might be a scary nutter who wants to come in my house.
Alternately, if you show him some kindness he might be instrumental in keeping theives away from your car, bike, or apartment. Think of him as a neighbor who happens to not have an apartment.

Really, when people get to this point their expectations are really low. The smalles kindness would probably make a huge impact on his life. And if he has TB or is some kind of weird stalker, then you should call the appropriate authorities.

21:10 / 25.02.05

Take a different route to uni.

21:16 / 25.02.05

Him being a "nutter" would indeed be the worst-case scenario, but not necessarily because he'd attempt to follow you home in a "scary" manner; no, it'd be bad because, if he's psychiatrically ill, there might be internal factors preventing him from looking after himself the way a non-"nutter" might.

Do you have any sense of the local psychiatric services? Where's the nearest psychiatric hospital, for example? If you seriously think this guy might be neglecting himself as a result of mental illness, it's possibly worth 'phoning up their switchboard and asking for advice. Chances are, they won't be rushing out to assess him on the street, but they might be able to advise on where to take your concerns.

ONLY NICE THINGS

21:46 / 25.02.05

I'm not sure where the problem is. If, once gifted once, he expects you to give him food or money every day, then you can give or not give food or money according to your menas and desires. That's what mendicancy means - hoping for people to give you things even though they do not immediately get anything in return, and knowing that on the balance of probabilities they will not.

If he is a scary nutter, what does it matter if you give or not? He can either see where you live from where he is sitting, or he can not, and if he can then he can come round whether or not you give him food or money. I don't think Boudu, Saved from Drowning is a hard and fast guide...

21:48 / 25.02.05

Well, you *could* invite him to become your new wacky flatmate, but that'd probably just be a bad idea.

Instead, well, yes, contact whichever applicable services are good for this kind of thing, and toss him a couple bucks every once in a while, or perhaps make him a sammich, or give him a bag of Cheetos.

tom-karika nukes it from orbit

22:09 / 25.02.05

Thank you all. The previously scary task of giving the poor man a sandwich and a box of Lockets now seems obvious and trivial.

I might have a chat to him; perhaps give him a phonecard and a list of organisations that might help him. He's not young, but he gives me the impression that he hasn't been on the streets for long; don't ask me why.

Whisky Priestess

09:04 / 26.02.05

I know something of what you're thinking because where I live there are a lot of homeless folk and beggars (one even camped outside our door for a few days - that wasn't great and I certainly didn't feel obliged to give him anything for the privilege of having him block access to my house) - there is also, however, a shelter a few doors down so I know that if they are in my 'hood there's always somewhere they can go.

I don't think giving him money will raise expectations of money every time: I think giving him food and cough stuff will be better, though. You should definitely do that if he's sounding as bad as you say. It sounds like it will bother you until you do something, though, so I'd go ahead and do it and see what happens. I doubt he will stalk you in return for your kindness, and I reckon you'll feel a lot better.

12:26 / 26.02.05

Take a different route to uni.

Or you could, you know, actually be a decent human being.

I'm not sure what the problem is, just give what you can and stop worrying about "nutters" and getting followed home - that's just silliness.

Oh, and a quick suggestion, rent out Dark Days, and be sure to watch the making of documentary.

tom-karika nukes it from orbit

15:16 / 26.02.05

OK, well today I went down with a housemate, and gave him a sandwich, some chocolate and load of cough sweets.

He was staggeringly grateful, like I'd just given him a million quid or something. Really threw me that did - I imagined that he would be pleased, but not that pleased.

I told him that I thought he sounded pretty ill, and he said that he reckoned he had a chest infection. He also reckoned he's getting better. He said he was waiting to move into a room with an old friend, who had got off the streets and got a job.

I wished him well and went to work... didn't catch TB, didn't get followed to my house. Hardly suprising, but there you go. Thank you people for getting me to do it.

Whisky Priestess

15:57 / 26.02.05

Now that gives me a genuine happy.

16:03 / 26.02.05

Good for you for not being complacent, Tom K. Good for you for not ignoring the suffering of another human being. People like you restore my faith, at least for a bit, in our race (the human one).

It didn't take a whole lot of effort to show compassion to him, did it? If everyone could just realise that maybe we'd actually have a chance.

17:16 / 26.02.05

That's great to hear, and yes, it warms the cockles.

17:58 / 26.02.05

I love a happy beginning.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

08:37 / 27.02.05

Aww!

08:53 / 27.02.05

Well done, Tom. That's brilliant.

rising and revolving

12:43 / 28.02.05

Kick arse Tom. Nice work.

Sorry it took me a while to get back to the thread - as for the premeditated thing, the only reason I suggested it was to make things look a little more casual in order to assauge your fears of him expecting too much in the future.

Which ain't no problem now, anyhow.

Great stuff, seriously. So many people could make a difference, but prefer to look away. The fact that you even noticed his cough is more than 99% of the population can manage - and your compassion speaks volumes.

jentacular dreams

16:05 / 09.11.07

*bump*

London councils are considering outlawing feeding the homeless on public land (see page 14), the penalty for which may be a fine up to £2,500. The official time frame for comments has now passed but I urge anyone who can to write in to oliver.hatch@londoncouncils.gov.uk and register their protest.

17:18 / 09.11.07

That is the most stunningly revolting thing I've read in a while. It will be criminal to give food to homeless people, but not to people who are watching sports events? Is that actually what the piece said?

And the argument, was it actually that feeding homeless people can be a nuisance to the rich people nearby?

Fuck, that's fucking sick.

Ex

17:39 / 09.11.07

I wrote to the chap on the front page objecting - it's technically closed, now, but replies might still filter through.
It's supposedly because of nuisance caused by the distribution, but I noted that surely any kinds of nuisance (noise, trespass, littering) should already be covered by existing laws, and to criminalise the act of dishing out food itself - while exempting promotional commercial distribution - is such a meanspirited, shitty act.

(I deleted an additional paragraph which initially read 'People distributing food to the homeless has never inconvenienced me at all. You know what's much more annoying? The manufacturers who dish out individual arsing spoonfuls of sugary yoghurt in a ton of plastic packaging because it's some kind of hip, new yoghurt and they want to get me hooked on it, and poorly paid promotional assistants are encouraged to grin and jab the yoghurt packages into my eye at rush hour. Ban them! Ban these sharp food peddlers!')

17:47 / 09.11.07

I bet they think this will help them fight terrorism...

I apologise for the sarcasm, I just have no other way of dealing with this kind of... well, crap.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

18:51 / 09.11.07

This makes me want to swear. Swear a lot. And loudly, but I kind of feel I shouldn't since this isn't the headsick thread.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

18:53 / 09.11.07

W and, indeed, TF???

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

18:58 / 09.11.07

So let me get this straight... if I want to give somebody money to buy smack, that's still okay, yet if I want to make a habit of distributing food to them, it isn't?

This is basically a follow-up to the "not allowed to feed the pigeons in Trafalgar Square" thing, isn't it, except that someone hasn't realised we're not actually talking about pigeons here.

Could one get round this by pretending to play football while doshing out the sarnies?

18:59 / 09.11.07

Christ.

We're really a bit fucked in the head at the moment aren't we?

20:28 / 09.11.07

You could get around it by giving a homeless person money then selling food to them at the cost of a penny. Then give those pennies back as charity. Voila!

jentacular dreams

14:39 / 10.11.07

Princess: Is that actually what the piece said?

It's not a piece though, not a journalists' editorial or opinion, it's the law. What they are saying is that the rights of some people not to be potentially "inconvenienced" is greater than the rights of other people to try to prevent them dying from malnutrition and exposure. Fucking fuckity fuckers! (shout away Shiny)

My UK law is a bit shaky (my education mostly focused on business law and that was 6 years ago), if this isn't thrown out at the consideration stage can anyone tell me what happens next? Parliamentary debate?

Trips, worth a try maybe, but don't you need a licence to sell food?

16:11 / 10.11.07

Am I wrong in thinking this would apply to mobile soup-kitchens as well? They are on public land, aren't they?
I assume they will apply for some sort of licence thing...

This sounds like it would also apply to buying your friend a drink/burger/chocolate bar and then handing it over to them at the park! Which I realise is ignoring the point really. This whole thing smells bad. Bad bad bad.

jentacular dreams

14:36 / 22.11.07

Human decency is now not to be made illegal.

Thanks to everyone who wrote in.

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