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Should Ken Livingstone Apologise?

 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:19 / 23.02.05
I know it’s a cliché to say this, but: I’m surprised there hasn’t been a thread about this already.

So Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London, is under pressure to apologise for saying that an Evening Standard journalist was “like a concentration camp guard” amongst other things, but so far, he’s toughing it out.

Quite right too, say I and (according to a poll) a majority of Guardian readers (they’re not so bad after all, really!). Ken’s remarks were arguably unwise in a strictly strategic sense, and I wish that once the journalist in question had responded to the question “are you a German war criminal?” with “I’m Jewish actually and so I take offence”, Ken had skipped straight to the killer “well, work for a paper that doesn’t have a history of supporting fascism” rather than opting for “well, that may be true but you are like a concentration camp guard” – but then that’s alcohol for you. His subsequent defence hasn’t always been as articulate as I might have hoped, and implying that the reporter was there to harass people on the basis of their sexuality was a little… tenuous. I’m not the biggest fan of Ken in general – I still remember Oxford Circus, May Day 2001. But if it comes to a choice between Livingstone and Associated Newspapers (the people behind the furiously right-wing, racist Daily Mail and as Livingstone correctly observed, now funnelling the same attitudes through a slightly subtler filter via the ES), I know who I’m backing.

More importantly, I know who I’m backing just in terms of the issue at hand, rather than just the people involved. What this represents, to me, is a clash between people who believe that the key lesson of the Holocaust should be that one particular sub-set of people can never do anything wrong ever again, and can always use their identity as a get-out clause whenever they are accused of wrongdoing (in which case Livingstone should apologise), or whether it is that we must never treat ANY group of people as less than human, whether they be Jewish or queer, Palestinian or simply seeking asylum (in which case Associated Newspapers need to be held to account for their flagrantly bigoted editorial stance on issues such as immigration).
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:52 / 23.02.05
I don't think he should apologise simply because I don't see the logic of the argument that says he should- he wasn't anti-semitic, he didn't insult anyone for being Jewish, he likened a reporter from a paper that has harrassed him for years to a concentration camp guard. How that becomes a statement against Judaism rather than a statement about the paper or the journalist is utterly beyond me.
 
 
Psi-L is working in hell
17:37 / 23.02.05
I, perhaps being the "precious Guardian reading decadent" that I am, agree. I don't think he should apologise, as at no point was he being anti-semitic...a slightly crude answer perhaps (and I think I like your's better Fly) but it annoys me that this whole thing seems to have been blown up out of proportion solely for political purposes.

It's sort of a similar to the willful misreading of the Labour election poster, and the sudden claims that the flying pig with Michael Howard's face on it was supposed to be some sort of racist attack on Jews, rather than a play on the concept of flying pigs being as unrealistic as the Tories leading the country. I think it's more disrespectful and dishonest to the Jewish population to capitalise on these events to kick up a political shit-storm to be honest.
 
 
Spaniel
10:36 / 24.02.05
No he bloody well shouldn't apologise, for all the reasons above.

I'm liking the some of the fall-out from this. Associated Newspapers accuse Livingstone of racism, his office hits back with allegations about a Nazi theme party.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:10 / 24.02.05
Probably the question here is not whether he shoudl apologise (he shouldn't) but how he shouldn't apologise.

In a perfect world, as Flybs says, he would have skipped straight on - not getting caught up in the concentration camp guard analogy, but just going straight for "I'm sorry if you find that offensive, but it remains the case that your newspaper is a racist, right-wing rag, and I have nothing to say to it or its representatives", or words to that effect. However, alcohol, tiredness, probably quite an emotional night... and so on. I think he can still not apologise, and indeed that he should not apologise, but he has to make it quite clear why he is not apologising, and challenge the Mail/Standard either to call him an anti-semite, whereupon he will sue them, or accept that he is not an anti-semite and just doesn't like their newspaper.

However, I'm not sure that this follows:

What this represents, to me, is a clash between people who believe that the key lesson of the Holocaust should be that one particular sub-set of people can never do anything wrong ever again, and can always use their identity as a get-out clause whenever they are accused of wrongdoing (in which case Livingstone should apologise)

Finegold wasn't using his Jewishness as a get-out clause for anything, he was drawing attention to it very specifically in the sense that, for him, being compared to a German war criminal was unusually offensive. Whether his intention there was to goad Livingstone, to warn him off a difficult subject for him or to try to push him into saying something unwise in a moment of PC panic, I don't think at that point he had necessarily done anything wrong, which was why the concentration camp comment was a bloody stupid thing to say, because it *does* sound like he is calling him a kapo or sonderkommando, whereas something even like "if that's important to your identity, why are you working for a newspaper which has historically supported fascism and is currently peddling a racist, exclusionary agenda?" would have made more sense. First line was obviously not intended to offend, because Livingstone did not even know Finegold was Jewish. Second line - if somebody had said that to a Jewish friend of mine in the knowledge that they were Jewish... it's not a good or a wise thing to say. I don't think this is about the lessons of the Holocaust - it's about the Standard using every bit of leverage it has in its campaign against Livingstone.
 
 
Benny the Ball
12:19 / 02.03.05
He shouldn't apologise, the journalist seems to think that his creed excludes him from being a nasty person. I think that Ken's been great, and the stuff about the Mail being pro-facsist is spot on.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:05 / 02.03.05
Mind you, before we put the finishing touches on the halo... didn't Ken write restaurant reviews for the Standard not a million years ago?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:18 / 02.03.05
Livingstone's dealt with that himself - says that was before a change of editor which has led to the Standard's current Daily-Mail-lite stance.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:41 / 02.03.05
True, but it was still the paper that supported Hitler... is that historicity an issue for him, or not?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
20:36 / 02.03.05
The thing is, even though he really didn't mean to, Livingstone has caused an immense amount of offense to this Jewish guy who was pestering him.

So if he does apologise, this should be the basis of it: that he accepts he's done something offensive even if it "wasn't on purpose".

I'm not sure I'm altogether happy with the "he shouldn't apologise at all" idea. I can see where it's coming from but perhaps a definite "end of" statement, as opposed to continued attrittion, would be a good thing?
 
 
Ganesh
22:17 / 02.03.05
So if he does apologise, this should be the basis of it: that he accepts he's done something offensive even if it "wasn't on purpose".

I'm not sure I'm hugely happy with this ostensibly rather kneejerk model. It seems to me that if an apology should arise directly from (subjectively) negatively-perceived outcome, the fact that someone, somewhere is (or claims to be) offended - without consideration of intent, or any sort of evaluation of the reasonableness of that someone, somewhere being offended - then anyone in the public eye might well spend the majority of their time and energy apologising to the righteously Offended.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
05:43 / 03.03.05
Public apologies are a weird thing- Ken's already said that he doesn't actually feel sorry, and that therefore an apology would be a lie... An apology that isn't meant, and that the person doing the apologising has already admitted isn't meant, really means nothing.

I don't think he should apologise- again, all that's been said above- crude choice of words, could have said it better, but I don't for one moment believe he's being anti-Semitic.

(Now, that summit in South Africa a few years back when he accused the government of acting like "pygmies"... that DID deserve an apology. Fortunately, he gave one.)
 
 
doozy floop
11:33 / 03.03.05
So if he does apologise, this should be the basis of it: that he accepts he's done something offensive even if it "wasn't on purpose".

I had a strong feeling I'd seen him say something along these lines on the BBC news but can't find any quotes or footage now... But I'm sure he did say, fairly early on in the whole row, that he regretted any offense caused and that causing offense wasn't his intention, which I think is as far as he can go without starting to sound like an eejit who's crumbling under the weight of the pressure from his PR team.

(Does he even have PR people? I have no idea...)
 
 
Smoothly
14:42 / 04.03.05
Well, it's not just his PRs. Nicky Gavron seemed to make a apology along those lines on his behalf on the Sunday. She said:

"I believe he will come to the point where he says, 'I regret that I have caused offence to the wider Jewish community' ... People looking for it now may be disappointed, but it will happen - of that there is no doubt."

It sounded authorised at the time, but Ken's statements since make me doubt that:

"A week ago I said it was not my intention to apologise to the journalist from the Daily Mail group or his employers. ... I have decided to stand by that decision."

Judging by his piece in today's Guardian he feels no need to apologise to the wider Jewish community at all, since:

"No serious commentator has argued that my comments to an Evening Standard reporter outside City Hall last month were anti-semitic."

Looks like this story is just going to run and run though.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:29 / 05.03.05
Well, he may be right but I can help but feel that's a rather unhelpful thing to say at the moment, is he trying to see how contentious he can be before he's forced to resign?
 
 
lord henry strikes back
16:25 / 05.03.05
I've also been wondering what has been going through Ken's head during all of this. Maybe he's got a bet on that he can get himself fired before the next election.

But maybe, and I really hope this is the case, he has simply decided to stand his ground. I think a lot of politicians would have apologised straight off the bat, but why? They would be apologising for someone else's misinterpretation of their words. Clear up the misunderstanding, fine, and I feel that Ken has done this, but nothing more.

This is a subject which gets me really worked up, so I'll try not to rant. To apologise under these circumstances would amount to social censorship. Ken did not set out to offend anyone, individual or group. He attacked one particulary irritating reporter and, more widely, the organisation for which he worked, but not on religious or racial grounds, simply on their behaviour. As I see it this case is not very far from that of Behzti, in which a small group of 'offended' individuals managed to force the closure of a play. Every time we let the mob (and I use that word with all of its club wielding, witch burning overtones) win our society becomes less free. (Sounds a bit dramatic, but I couldn't think of a better way to say it).

Just as a side point, I'm not a massive Ken fan on the whole. I've never voted for him, and he lost a lot of my respect when he rejoined Labour, though he may win some of that back if he sticks to his guns.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
23:59 / 05.03.05
Ken Livingstone should not apologise to the Evening Standard employee. The "reporter" was there to provoke him.

Thurs January 13, 2005 The Guardian
Mayor takes on Associated with plan to offer station distribution rights to new afternoon paper.
 
  
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