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Did Jesus walk the soil of Britian?

 
 
Ender
20:19 / 22.02.05
Does anyone know anything about Jesus going to England? Is it just a legend?
 
 
Ganesh
20:28 / 22.02.05
Does anyone know anything about Jesus having existed? Is it just a legend?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:39 / 22.02.05
Maybe what you mean is, "Is it a) one of those big ol' legends where lots of people decide that some guy X did thing Y in place Z, with or without evidence for any or all of X, Y, or Z, or b) a compact and bijou legend created by my mate for him and his other buddies to enjoy?"

What, exactly, has this fellow been telling you?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:40 / 22.02.05
PS: the answer is a) big ol' legend. Go and read some Chesterton.
 
 
Ender
20:50 / 22.02.05
Who has evidence for anything, that can not some how be refuted?

Good point Ganesh, Let me rephrase my question, what have you heard about Jesus in England?
Do you believe it, and why?
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
21:04 / 22.02.05
It probably has something to do with the whole Grail legend; where the Holy Grail ends up in Glastonbury after the crucifixation. Cue King Arthur, Lancelot, the bit with the evil rabbit and all that.
As for Gee-Whiz ever visiting England, well it's a helluva walk from the Holy Land, so if we presume that J.C is an actual historical person, instead of a sexed-down Dyonysis for the Dead Seas market, he would have had a tough time getting there. These weren't the best time for a dark-skinned Jewish foreigner to be walking through the Roman Empire, the Gauls and into Celtic territory. And, since Gee-Whiz is only mentioned in the Bible, without any secondary sources at all, and the Bible doesn't mention anything about him visiting England, I'm afraid your buddy is pulling your leg.
What does he back this up with anyway?
 
 
Sean the frumious Bandersnatch
21:11 / 22.02.05
I call shenanigans on this whole "Jesus in England" thing. Everyone knows that he was too busy hanging out in Japan.
 
 
EvskiG
21:42 / 22.02.05
"And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green . . ."

Do a Google search for Jesus, Arimathea, and maybe Glastonbury or Avalon for tons on the subject. It's just about as credible as the stories in the Greek Bible.
 
 
diz
06:28 / 23.02.05
Everyone knows that he was too busy hanging out in Japan.

don't forget that there were American and Indian legs to the tour as well.
 
 
odd jest on horn
07:36 / 23.02.05
And, since Gee-Whiz is only mentioned in the Bible, without any secondary sources at all

If, by definition, the bible includes everything ever written about Jesus, then this is true.

There is the Nag-Hammadi Library, though. Which includes the Gospel of Thomas, which is possibly older than the Gospels in the Bible, though not older than Paul's writings. (Who never actually met the guy).
 
 
Tryphena Absent
09:03 / 23.02.05
Of course Jesus was here, this is the holiest country on earth. He flew over on a jetplane.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
09:04 / 23.02.05
And that jetplane, by the way, was magicked in to the past by the very first Merlin.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
09:05 / 23.02.05
And everyone knows that the bible only contains around half of the books that have ever existed. It was edited by some happy monks for consistency during the medievals. Ner ner neh ner ner.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:14 / 23.02.05
Also, the mummified corpse of Mary Magdalene is buried under the Louvre.
 
 
Jub
09:21 / 23.02.05
Phex, to be fair to the Christians, at least one (well 13 really) of Jesus's followers is said to have made it here. Joseph of Arimethea is apocryphally said to have come (with 12 disciples) in 63 AD. It is said that he was the uncle of Jesus and that as a boy he was taken on one of Joseph's earlier business trips to the island. (This during the time between the ages of about 5 - 30 where the bible doesn't really mention what he gets up to.)

The story goes like this: after Jesus was crucified Joseph returned to Cornwall (having already set up trading relations there in tin - he was a wealthy metal merchant), bringing with him the Holy Grail. When he reached Glastonbury he planted his staff, which then took root and grew into a thorn tree. This was pretty much the starting point of the Arthurian legends with regard to the Holy Grail.

So far, so legend. However, Phoenician ships use to import tin from Cornwall to make bronze during these times. Maybe JoA was involved in this trade somehow.

As for him bringing Jesus, - wishful thinking on our Anglo-centric ancestors. (Pretty much like Mormonism and the US!)
 
 
_Boboss
09:40 / 23.02.05
we used to sing this at school:

As I was a walking one morning in spring,
I met with some travellers in an old country lane.
One was an old man, the second a maid,
And the third was a young boy who smiled as he said:

"With the wind in the willows and the birds in the sky,
There's a bright sun to warm us wherever we lie.
We have bread and fishes and a jug of red wine,
To share on our journey with all of Mankind."

So I asked them to tell me their name and their race,
That I may remember their kindness and grace.
"My name it is Joseph, this is Mary my wife,
And this is our young Son who is our dear life."

"We are travelling to Glaston through England's green lanes,
To hear of men's troubles, to hear of men's pains.
We travel the wide world o'er the land and the sea,
To tell all the people how they can be free."

So sadly I left them in that old country lane,
I know that I never shall see them again.
One was an old man, the second a maid,
The third was a young boy who smiled as he said:


dunno where this song comes from, presumably it's later than 'wind in the willows', i expect the youngins sing it still. the fanciful narrative is an embellishment of the earlier myth/legend: here joseph of arimathea has been replaced by joseph and mary, and 'jesus' is a bit less central than a vaguer sense of 'trinity'. the myth goes that in his missing years young jesus came over with his rich uncle joseph to pick a spot to site the new jerusalem, and they pick glastonbury because it's remote, quite lovely in summer and, erm, 'ineffably holy' i.e. the druids liked it going back a long way.

it's just a local legend, something i took as facto when i was little, due to this song mainly, but hardly something that everyone spoke about a lot. then you grow up a bit, read a book or two, maybe come up with some independent thoughts and decide, 'hey, there's no hope of (dis/)proving that at all!'

facto: there was a very early christian church in glastonbury. evidence going back that far is so sketchy that it's possible that the church could have been dated to within no more than a few years of AD28 or whenever the crucifixion was supposed to be.

legendo: the local chieftain let these christians set-up and apparently offered them both protection and independence, and it seems unlikely he would have done that without serious cash or some genuine religiose wonder being involved somewhere. one of the madder books i have read recently (an ark of the covenant/monoatomic gold one) claims that, y'know essene alchemical secrets blah blah hidden away from the empire, bit of holy bloodline in there, arthur and camelot only ten miles down the road, arthur's authority came from being the official protector of the line etc.

so basically, people have been saying crazy things about the locale for a very long time, and show few signs of slowing down. the fact so many have an impulse to make up odd things about the place is to my mind evidence that there is something a bit weird going on. what can i say? i like it there.
 
 
_Boboss
09:41 / 23.02.05
to the tune of 'when a knight won his spurs' btw.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:55 / 23.02.05
All true. He fell in with a bad crowd in the early 80s, but got back on his feet again after a spiritual experience on the 73 night bus, and now sells bashment and carnival CDs on the pavement in Dalston on saturday afternoons.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
11:56 / 23.02.05
Hey, there isn't a person alive who hasn't been on the 73 and had a spiritual experience. Round here they call it the bus of enlightenment. Of course its power has run down a bit since they stopped the routemasters.
 
 
Ganesh
14:15 / 23.02.05
We used to sing this at school:

Joooey Deacon!
Joey Deacon! Joey Deacon!
Joooey Deacon!
Jo-eyyyyy Dea-con!


To the tune of Hallelujah.

Well, more in the playground, really.
 
 
_Boboss
15:52 / 23.02.05
i'm talking about little little school really. organised pisstaking of people with down's syndrome usually comes along a bit later in the educational process.

there are 'joey deacon has a posse' stencil grafs on the way to the train station - weird to think anyone old enough to remember joey deacon still being in to graffiti.
 
 
doctorbeck
17:09 / 23.02.05
i just have to love a thread that can go from jesus to joey in just a few posts


joey deacon has a posse is however strangely brilliant in a nathan barley kind of way, is the graff in hoxton? did charlie sheen put it there?
 
 
Pants Payroll
02:12 / 25.02.05
Someone once put forth the dodgy theory that the grail brought over by Joseph of Arimethea was actually the head of Jesus. As in his noggin. Tied it into the Templars head-worshiping and all sorts of stuff, Freemasons, Akhenaten, you name it. Supposed to be buried under a chapel in Roslin, Scotland. Take with as many grains of salt as you can find.
 
 
_Boboss
11:40 / 25.02.05
only hoxton-by-the-sea
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
00:12 / 26.02.05
Apparently the Lost Shoe of Joey has the power to heal the sick.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:23 / 26.02.05
I've seen those "Joey Deacon has a posse" stickers in Barcelona.
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:56 / 27.02.05
history, lots of people bullshitting each other.

joey has special hand movements similar to praying mantis style kung fu, this came up at kung fu recently.except perhaps more crane beak style, good for temple strikes.

and also the sound produced by pushing the tongue behind the lower lip and pronouncing joey.

varmannies(use a combination of pressure point strikes and mantra to release prana) indian martial arts practice, perhaps.....

no it is wrong as groups of teenage girls informed me constantly when i was young, i am a bad person.....no really i am.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:44 / 28.02.05
Joey Deacon reclaimed by the ironists. Joy (or lack of).
 
 
solomon
23:10 / 03.03.05
Not to cast futher doubt, since i love a good story, but one of Aum Shin Rikyo's beleifs, cobbled from other marginal religious groups of asia, was that christ traveled all the way to Japan, where he was buried, and where his tomb still stands (somewhere).

Wierd. This is definitely far less likely in my opinion than Jesus reaching Britain. I do give some credence to the conjectured travels of Jesus during the "lost years" of his teens and young adult years. The best gauge of plausibility is researching the historical trade routes of the period. they aren't secret ot lost or anything, just a pretty obscure area of acedemia. As to wheather he was in Truth a real dude of historical actuality I cannot say.
 
 
eye landed
03:22 / 10.03.05
a travelling jesus closely resembles pythagoras, who travelled the mediterranean world as well as to india ~500 bce to learn math and cool guitar licks. like yeshua, he found what he wanted in egypt, where he was apprenticed to holy musicians for 20 years. he was also regarded as some kind of messiah after his death by a close group of disciples in italy. similar to siddhartha gautamas story too. so its clearly a popular character.

whether the nazarene himself was in england cant be proven, i reckon. but maybe we can enjoy the less shocking truth that the native britons had an anointed one of some kind, as shown in arthur tales. considering the grail focus, as well as druid blakes ditty, the connection to jerusalem seems far stronger in england than any of yeshuas other legendary homes.

bringing us back to pythagoras, he preferred the guitar (cithara) to all that triangle stuff hes famous for. a slew of legends: the cithara was invented in england; appollo (who is often linked with dionysos) originated in england; homers troy was in england; the founders of the roman empire came from england. so maybe its less likely that jesus travelled to england after his crucifixion, and more likely that he started there.
 
 
Peach Pie
16:32 / 06.06.05
i believe the allegation is that his "son" came to glastronbury.
 
  
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