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Underground > Temple >

Elemental Roles in a Cell

Clemn XuLa - tha mike rula

03:58 / 17.02.05

I've asked this before, and I'm pretty sure I even have a hardcopy of the old thread printed out, unfortunately, far from where I am, so here we go again, my apologies for what might be an over-asked question.

What are the roles of the various members of an Invisibles cell? I know Air is the leader and Spirit is the...spirit of the cell, but beyond that I'm drawing a blank.

odd jest on horn

12:04 / 17.02.05

King Mob: "I've gone from being air to earth, so now I have to handle all the boring, mundane stuff like finances and equipment"

This is how I see the traditional attributions:

Fire: will, power
Water: empathy, emotion
Air: analyzis, thought
Earth: stability

Spirit is the binding or disruptive element.

I'm sure you'll get better answers in the Comics forum, though.

Clemn XuLa - tha mike rula

13:00 / 17.02.05

Ah, I wasn't sure if this was a comics thread or not. My apologies.

16:52 / 17.02.05

Fire: will, power
Water: empathy, emotion
Air: analyzis, thought
Earth: stability

I think that this translated for the cell would be :

Fire : Action, firepower, missions etc.
Water : Vibes, magick, astral.
Air : Plans, logistics, organizing.
Earth : Equipment, relationships, cohesiveness of members within cell.

Spirit : Sudden spontaneous action, last minute changes of plan, route, intent, freedom to move outside of the plans and logistics of air, but only if absolutely necessary.

You could sit there adding things all night, there's literally no-end to the attributions, but there's a few.

If you're familiar with the Elemental system in Magick, you could work it out for yourself I suppose and carry on adding.

18:36 / 17.02.05

Seeing as how this is a direct Invisibles question, perhaps it would be best to discuss the attributions as they occur in the books, themselves?

As we begin the saga, V1I1, Mob is the implied leader which is said to be "air" and the yellow slip. Over the course of the first volume, we learn that Fanny is water, Robin is fire, Boy is earth, and the missing member — JohnADreams — has the attribution of spirit.

As said before, "spirit" is the white slip, and holds transformative properties for the individual, as well as for its corresponding cell. As JohnADreams steps out of the universe and vanishes, Mob is instructed to initiate a new member, Jack Frost. From there, hilarity ensues.

Robin's role as fire is barely touched upon in V1, as is Fanny's as water. Boy is shown as earth in her training of Jack in fighting styles.

At the beginning of V2I1, the Invisibles cast draws new slips for new roles. This time, Robin draws yellow and everyone defers to her as leader. Mob draws black for earth, and states his responsibilites plainly: guns, ammo, funds. Jack picks water, Fanny picks fire, and Boy is left with the white slip of spirit.

Boy thus begins her transformation as she manages to steal the Hand of Glory, defeat the Church's hidden subconscious programming, expose the duplicitousness of the "Invisibles" in other cells, percieve the Barbelith without psychic powers, and quit the team altogether. Volume 2 is the dissolution of the Invisibles cast, and Boy insitigates it.

Now, judging from everyone's actual actions in the two volumes and two roles, I would suspect that water corresponds directly to emotional connectivity -specifically to the spirit role, as Fanny reaches out to Jack early in V1, and Jack reaches out to Boy in V2.

Fire could also be significant to the role of confrontation in each cell. Robin, as fire, confronts the Blind Chessman and destroys the limitations of language by ignoring the myrmidons with the Head of John the Baptist. Fanny is most significant in V2 as the one who decieves Quimper and destroys the belief that the universe is manichaen by willingly going into the magic mirror.

This help?

20:19 / 17.02.05

Thanks Chad that's brilliant, and sorry, I just want to add that my previous post is clearly wrong in some aspects, I didn't really think it out enough :

Fire : Firepower, confrontation.
Water : Vibes, astral, cohesiveness of members within cell, relationships.
Air : Plans, logistics, organizing, astral.
Earth : Equipment, organizing, firepower.

Spirit : Sudden spontaneous action, last minute changes of plan, route, intent, freedom to move outside of the plans and logistics of air, but only if absolutely necessary.

All elements : magick, sudden spontaneous action.

With the help of Chad, that brings it a little closer.

Ahh, I could swap things around all night but that should help to give some idea.

11:36 / 18.02.05

Anybody want to play which member is which role for the Volume 3 Invisibles? The 2012 Invisibles?

11:45 / 18.02.05

Or it could just be a throwaway idea that appears in a couple of panels and wasn't particularly developed....

12:21 / 18.02.05

My thoughts exactly. But it's a game. And particularly difficult.

17:46 / 19.02.05

My two cents:

1)Fire:The groups magician
2)Water: The groups councelor, i.e. mediator.
3)Air:The groups Leader
4)Earth: The groups Logistical support
5)Spirit: The groups wild element.

Clemn XuLa - tha mike rula

18:10 / 20.02.05

Wonderfully helpful everyone. I was specifically puzzled about the role of water, but I definitely have a handle on it now, "splash around a little" makes more sense now. Thanks.

03:11 / 24.02.05

the more i think of it, the more i think this thread ought to be passed along to the politics section. it could be really interestingly aplied to a demonstration situation by a large organized body with different folks volenteering for new roles. it might work something like:

earth-first aid, grounding, healing, making sure old hippies dont get trampled by a mob, arrest contact group

air- spokesperson, sobody with a bullhorn, someone semi- "official" who can speak for the largest number of people,
someone able to deal with authority as an equal

fire- protest art, carnival, street theater, street preachers, musicians, (or possibly some way to account for the mob's repressed rage)

water-? got me, emotional therapy?

spirit- definitely the wild card in this situation typically is anyone dressed in all black. a need for some color in the crowd might be what inpired this. the black anarchist vs black stormtroopers game is getting old...

ONLY NICE THINGS

04:06 / 24.02.05

I'm not sure I'd want to try to organise a protest into five specialised groups purely in order to be more like the Invisibles - it feels not so much counter-intuitive as Counter-Strike.

16:15 / 24.02.05

I wouldn't order a protest like that, but definately a five person magicians group. And if they did a little protest here and a little graffitti there, so be it.

20:36 / 25.02.05

I'm not talking about organizing a whole protest rigidly structured on an invisible cell. i'm talking about getting some practical use out of what i think is a good idea. since i know a good number of wiccans, pagans, and political misfits are already familiar with the basic elemaental symbolism i think it could be a useful, and flexible model for organising the division of labour within a group, especially in a situation as chaotic as a demonstration. we could create some new roles for people to fill, an organization that acts more like an organism.

I especially think this has value since so many counter culture types have a problem with rigid heirarchy. This could be a way to act in co-operation by different means. There are lot's of needs that need to be filled at a demo. this way, you go, play your role, and you know that in the meantime the other parts are taken care of.

part of this also came out of first hand observation of the anti-bush demo in ottowa last fall. I witnessed how, in a very tense and potentially violent situation, where one individual (on either side of the baricade) could spark a mob of 8000 into a violent riot, the actions of a small group within the crowd can tip the scales and keep things calm. (assuming you want to keep thins peaceful. i do.)

so give it some thought. Could this idea help change the dynamic of the mob, by incorperating it into the spirit of the group?

15:09 / 26.02.05

I wouldn't use the five elements system, but maybe the seven planets, seems like that would be better for a large group. The five elements are too general for such an undertaking, you'd have to increase the division of labour to say:

Saturn: Handling tear gas victims and triaging wounded for evacuation.
Jupiter: Logistics and supplies.
Mars: Your more vioent types who can push when it comes time to shove.
Venus: Your less violent types who can calm things down when violence would be just a tragedy.
Mercury: Communications and paphlet-eering
Moon:People working Mojo
Sun: Group orginization

Thats my two cents at least.

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:11 / 27.02.05

How about the Seven Soldiers of Victory?

Crimson Avenger: Leadership.
Stripesy: Physical action - setting up roadblocks
Star-spangled kid: Campaign finance
Vigilante: Defence against riot police
Shining Knight: Reconnaissance, travelling in time to Camelot.
Green Arrow: Shooting arrows
Speedy: Also shooting arrows

Of course, post-crisis you would have to replace Green Arrow with the Spider, who would in fact be working for the government to sabotage the protest, but that's the risk you take.

Unconditional Love

13:23 / 27.02.05

the idea that the five elements are common to all situations is one put forth in the tibetan book of the dead, no ideas on application, but its a workable idea, especially if considered as tattvas and as part of a unified structure, ie one that isnt conflict based in a judaeo/christian way ie black vs white, and is more like two serpent beings engaged in oral sex swallowing each others seed,yin yang etc etc.

16:58 / 28.02.05

Oh, if only I could envision a protest as a 69, what a time that would be.

trouser the trouserian

17:09 / 28.02.05

i think it could be a useful, and flexible model for organising the division of labour within a group

Indeed it is. And GM probably nicked the idea from Starhawk, who first proposed the 5-element group roles in one of her early books (either The Spiral Dance or Dreaming the Dark).

Tryphena Absent

10:06 / 01.03.05

I think we're missing the obvious mapping of Captain Planet (and the Planeteers) on to this idea. For instance has anyone noticed that the Planeteers are actually under the jurisdiction of Fire, Earth, Water, Air and Heart. Obviously the addition of Heart is important because it is the perfect substitute to spirit.

Kwame: From Africa, with the power of Earth..

From North America, Wheeler, with the power of Fire

From the Soviet Union, Linka, with the Power of the Wind

From Asia, Gi, with the power of the Water

And from South America, Ma-Ti, with the power of Heart

Nothing has to be worked out at all and don't forget- we're the planeteers, you can be one too, cos saving our planet is the thing to do! It's practically an invitation to all of us!

ONLY NICE THINGS

11:38 / 01.03.05

That's a great idea, Ms. Logardiere. How about a protest organised along similar lines, but employing those icons of the modern divine, the Sailor Scouts? Divided into their astrological symbology - Mercury, Moon, Venus, Mars etc - different groups within the protest could be assigned different tasks:

Sailor Moon: Fighting evil by daylight.
Sailor Venus: Finding love by moonlight
Sailor Mars: Never running from a real fight.

I reckon we'll have society reorganised by Wednesday.

13:25 / 01.03.05

You bitches are competing for barbequotes.

(Ha! I love Barbelith!)

22:46 / 03.03.05

Yes! This is what i'm talking about! Captain planet and the planeteers! genius!

So... let's get started. I like these ideas, but I'm mostly interested in how to develop these ideas as useful group organizing tools. Lets not get totally abstract. I'm wondering about areas of responsibility, tactics, methods.

00:28 / 04.03.05

jokesuit?

is that you?

Regrettable Juvenilia

12:11 / 10.03.05

After attending a team-building exercise day in Staten Island, NY, our office recently reorganised itself around these roles:

RZA: spiritual leadership
GZA: strategic planning, in-depth analysis
Ghostface: motivation, possibly some equipment as well (clothes, weapons)?
Inspectah Deck: 'delivery', making sure things get done
Raekwon the Chef: provisions (food, etc)
U-God: light entertainment
Method Man: drugs
ODB: also drugs
Master Killah: not entirely clear, maybe slowing things down and keeping them grounded, a counterpoint to Ghost?

12:48 / 10.03.05

You could set up the division of labor like this, so that the chain o command is the same throughout.

FIRE: Command and Control
Fire of Fire: General leader of group FIRE, overall leader.
Fire of Air: Director of Communications, overall leader of communications
Fire of Water: Director of first aid and medical efforts, overall leader of medical efforts.
Fire of Earth: Director of Logistics, overall leader of logistical supply.

AIR: Communications
Air of Air: In charge of inter team contact, directing message contact between different communication lines. Pamphleteering, etc.
Air of Water: Especially tasked for directing medical and first aid comm on a different channel of communications, coordinating said comm with main lines of comm.
Air of Earth: Providing Logistic supplies for comm, i.e. radios, runners, ect.

WATER: Medical and First Aid
Water of Water: Providing first aid and medical evac for emergencies.
Water of Earth: Providing First Aid supplies, i.e. bandages, wet towels for tear gas, etc.

EARTH: General logistics and support
Earth of Earth: Providing general logistic support for all elements, and managing cash flow.

SPIRIT: To be there when needed.
Spirit of Spirit: To cause problems and distractions for law enforcement, to make sure problems aren't caused for protesters.
Spirit of Fire: To provide auxilary Command and Control if FIRE is apprehended. Leader of Spirit.
Spirit of Air: To provide alternate lines of comm if AIR is apprehended, comm for spirit.
Spirit of Water: To provide alternate first aid if WATER is apprehended, Wandering first aid providers with mobile first aid supplies, (like in a backpack).
Spirit of Earth: To stand by ready with Bail money and extra supplies if EARTH gets apprehended.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:37 / 10.03.05

Yeah, we have that too. I'm Water of Water of Water.

ONLY NICE THINGS

14:04 / 10.03.05

Dave: Leadership. Lead us, Dave!

Dee: D-amage, D-struction, D-vastation – combat operations

Beaky: Reconnaissance – sniffing out potential problems with their freakishly large noses

Dozy: Calming the crowd down to avoid confrontation

Mick: Entertainment, with such hits as “Fairground” and “Money’s too tight to mention”

Titch: Sneaking into small spaces