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Underground > Radio & Music >

Does the medium on which your music resides matter?

16:48 / 16.02.05

Right, i don't know if this is in the right place, maybe it should be in convo, but i can't check the posting guidelines, as the wiki's trying to sell me a mortgage right now...

So, i'm skint, i need to raise cash, i'm looking at my vinyl.

Part of me's thinking
"f**k it, i've paid for it once, i'll flog it, download it again, i'll be a grand or two richer, and one in the eye to visa, the scumbags, hurrah. Plus vinylschminyl, cd's are fine, and sooo much more transportable, my back hasn't forgiven me for the last time I moved house, and i'm trying to cut down my possessions at the prospect of driving to Shanghai or therabouts in a year's time".

The other part of me thinks
"but no...you will be skanking these artists out of their livelihood, vinyl is so much nicer than cdr's, what with the big gatefold sleeves and the tactility of the whole thing, and the collection is the product of 10 or so years of charity shop/car boot sale digging, it's like throwing away your photo albums".

So...cash or vinyl? Recommendations please

J

23:26 / 16.02.05

It entirely depends on the contents of your collection.

Some items are out of print.
Not so much of a problem if your albums are less than 3 decades old or relatively mainstream, but very difficult past that, or for more esoteric tracks.

The CD version may be missing tracks that the ol' vinyl had.
I'm looking at you, Steve Albini.
Big Black, Steve Albini's first band, released an astounding album called Atomizer, but a later CD reissue does not contain a song that was on the cassette and record. Some people say it's due to Albini's dislike of digital audio, others say the song wasn't very good in the first place. Either way, I'm keeping my old media.

If you're expecting to find the tracks online through p2p sources, bear in mind that you have no control over the quality of the file you get.
I freely admit to being an audio snob. I still have a turntable and a tube amp (I cannot recommend this highly enough if you listen to CDs or mp3s of a decent quality - the sound quality is incredible) and my work computer has a hard drive big enough that I can rip my mp3s at a high bitrate. But I also download mp3s for "taste-testing" purposes, and the quality is usually pretty low.

I will be keeping my old records and tapes, but your requirements and situation may be entirely different.

02:38 / 17.02.05

can't roll a joint on an ipod, but you can on your copy of solar fire by manfred mann's solar earth band.

08:40 / 17.02.05

If you must sell yor record collection you must prepare yourself for being screwed by the guy in the record shop- he will (at best) only offer you 50% of what its worth- at worst he'll offer you 10p- 50p a record- a quid for anything worth something- you'll end up walking away with maybe £100- £200 is it really worth it?

Given that you can download- but the hours it'll take- and then the fact that lots of stuff you can't find/ the quality may not be great (try looking up 'the fall' on Limewire to see what I mean)- I also can't help feeling that laws are going to alter/ record labels are going to become more stringent on file sharers (remember Napster) don't assume you can just replace your record collection for free.

I guess it all depend on how attached you are to it- i personally love having a massive record collection and love having it on display - its a social thing. Its great when friends are round and they pull out something you haven't played for years- how often does this happen on itunes (the social thing i mean)

Its up to you in the end, but for me it would be a big Nooooooooooo!

09:51 / 17.02.05

I would say it entirely depends on how attached you are to it. A mate of mine recently sold a big portion of his collection and his reason was, in his words "there's no way I'll ever get the same amount of pleasure out of them as I did when I was 17". Back then, those particular records were a big part of life, and we squeezed every ounce of enjoyment out of 'em. For him to to still have them now is just hanging onto the memory - I feel the same about various records/books/comics I've sold or got rid off (though I've got to say I've never got rich off of this - if you're considerations are solely financial, keep 'em, unless you've got a fucking amazing collection). The emotional value of things drains away out of time for me, and then it's time to jettison. And to be honest, I bet there's stuff in your collection, you never play, or that doesn't mean anything anymore, everyone's got stuff like it, lose it...

at the scarwash

19:19 / 17.02.05

i currently hardly touch my vynil, mostly because my turnables are all shot at the moment. but having lost all of my record collection in a fire at one point, I can say that I know how much I missed it. also, there are tons of things I have on LP that I know I'll never find on CD. and that linen-textured sleeve copy of Unknoun Pleasures. Just touching it makes me smile.

09:57 / 18.02.05

after not having a turning table for a couple of years and then getting one recently, i've got to say that i just like the way vinyl sounds better than digitally reproduced sounds. difficult not to sound like a luddite and say silly things about 'warmth', 'contact' etc. but the background hiss kind of fills the whole room up, provides a sonic screen for the tunes to reverberate around. mmm. plus, y'know, it's very difficult to stumble across obscure and strange yet desirable cds or mpthrees in junk shops or back alleys.

14:13 / 18.02.05

Mmm...all good points.

I'd have to agree that there's a warmth and special 'isness' of vinyl, that makes the music more immediate. It's not like my system's good enough to make the differences between cds and vinyl hugely apparent, but the clicks and hisses do add something. And yep, the 3-record gatefold of the Best of Stevie Wonder, 62-70 is great, and i've got a soft spot for Smash Hits 1990 (though whether that's for Monie Love, or that Turtle Power tune I'm not sure). Pulling them off a menu and clicking them doesn't come close to that tap and fizz of the needle hitting the deck.

I think i'm going to get rid of most of the stuff that i amassed through djing, as i don't listen to them for fun now, and haven't for a while. The albums, random esoterica, and products of crate digging in pissy charity shops, and muddy carboot-sale fields i think are going to stay.

Think i just needed reassurance that the glow i got from seeing those shelves of records wasn't totally misguided. I think I'd miss em too much.

And with that, i'm going to dig through it again, i'm in a reggae mood...you're right, itunes isn't the same is it?

Anyone want to buy a load of old acid techno?

J

10:18 / 19.02.05

i'm say - DON'T SELL.

Unless they're saddo collectors type records, which from the above I'm assuming they're not, the pleasures to be derived from a huge stack of vinyl far outway the pleasures to be derived from the few pennies you'll get for them.

But then again, maybe I'm just still pissed from when I got a guy from a record shop to value my CDs and records (for insurance purposes), and he told me I had nothing at all that was worth more than £2 selling value (except a Jefferson Airplane LP with the rght colour label which I could maybe get a tenner for).

06:31 / 22.02.05

If I were old enough to have a vinyl collection, I reckon it would be one of my most prised possesions. Because of CD, many things just aren't available on vinyl, as has been said. A well made and kept vinyl, will sound better then any CD or MP3 ever could though. At least with the right equipment. If music isn't a huge deal to you, then maybe sell and just get the mp3's. But if the music on them is important, and music is important - keep.

21:00 / 22.02.05

i personnally could give a shit whether it's vinyl or CD as long as i've got the music. i'd go with what you said. get rid of the ones you don't want and sell the rest.
what is this warmth that everyone talks about? nearly all my records used to skip and fuck up my pleasure. i hardly get any problems with Cd's.

01:43 / 23.02.05

reFLUX-
The short version: Digital audio takes audio information, which is usually in the shape of a smooth waveform, and breaks it up into a series of on/off signals, which results in square or stairstepped waveforms. These stairstepped waves often described as sounding artificial or cold. Another aspect of vinyl and magnetic tape is the background white noise, which adds a sense of physical space and warmth.

Locust No longer

16:05 / 23.02.05

I personally like records more than cds, simply for the artwork and design. Invariably, however, I end up listening to cds more because I'm too lazy to flip the record over. However, anyone who claims they can actually hear the "cold" sound of a cd is crazy; no one has that good of ears. Certainly, it's a cleaner sound than a record or tape but that's all it is.

17:46 / 23.02.05

Locust, do you actually know what you're talking about? I'm just asking becuase it seems like Lekvar does.

Could you tell us little more about those square waveforms, Lekvar, and why they sound "cold".

Brigade du jour

00:25 / 24.02.05

I haven't had a record player for about six years, but I've still got all my records. Even when I moved house about a year ago, in something of a hurry, and purged my movie collection (I'm more of a movie fan than a music fan, but only inasmuch as Arsenal are better than Manchester United). But ... my record collection remains intact. Ok, it's mainly because it was all in one box and there are only about 80 of the fuckers anyway, but still I think it's nice to dig old LPs out and look at the artwork, if nothing else. Iron Maiden's 'Somewhere In Time' is a pithy example of this, even though the actual album is below par.

Keep it all, I say. But if there's a fire, leave it behind.

18:49 / 24.02.05

I can't really explain the subtleties of the digital/analog discussion without a beer or two and a napkin to draw diagrams on, but I can give you an example that should allow you to experience my basic point.

Here is a graphic representation of a square wave, at top (link to 2 second mp3 of square wave) and a sine wave, at bottom (link to 2 second mp3 of sine wave).

I say in all seriousness that if you can't hear the difference between the two linked files that you should have your hearing checked.

Most people's reaction to square waveform is that it is jarring and artificial. This isn't a value judgment - I love industrial and electronic music, both of which feature square, sawtooth, triangle, and other "artificial" waveforms - this reaction is due to the fact that the sharp dropoff between the peaks and valleys of the wave simply don't appear in nature.

These audio examples are a gross oversimplification, since CD audio is considerably more subtle than a simple square wave. But if you look closely at the bottom picture you can see that the sine wave is "stairstepped," and this illustrates the point I made in my previous post.

11:09 / 01.03.05

If you people who make statements like "Another aspect of vinyl and magnetic tape is the background white noise, which adds a sense of physical space and warmth." don't make you laugh then keep your records.

17:10 / 02.03.05

don't toss them.