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Protests, huh, Good God Y'all, what are they good for?

 
  

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Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
17:11 / 13.02.05
I think a question that needs to be asked in the aftermath of the 2004 election here in the US that isn’t being asked is:

Are street protests counter-productive?

Starting before the 2nd Gulf War, there have been massive protests, with largely peaceful people taking to the streets with signs, slogans and plans for shutting things down to show how many people are opposed to the Bush Administration’s various policies. The biggest protest was global and was really impressive to see, but the only coverage it got in the US mainstream media was an argument over how many people actually showed up. It was framed by the media and the Administration as “those old hippies, at it again” and undercut the actual numbers by shocking amounts, while the protesters complained about them lying about how many people were there.

The argument over how many people were there made it so no one really had to cover what was being protested in any sort of detail because pretty much all media coverage any more is “This person said this, that other person said that” and on to the next story. I could go on about how this sort of approach has reduced bald faced lies from an affront to just another “political position”, but instead it made me think that the people in power have finally figured out how to nullify protest.

We have “free speech zones” which are usually far enough away that lazy news reporters don’t have to see them. The protests are known in advance so that party operatives can have counter-protests to reduce the protest to yet another “red state vs. blue state” story that is easily dismissed. And during the election, they were ALL summarily dismissed. When asked about dissent before the war, Bush actually claimed that if people were against the war, why didn’t they make their views known before the war started. He was rewriting history, dismissing the protests and since Kerry didn’t bring it up, it was unchallenged because there wasn’t an easy to get talking head to strike a counterpoint.

Large marches and protests worked in the 50’s and 60’s because no one quite knew how to handle them yet. They were visual, so they got on TV, the people being protested would usually over-react, giving even MORE TV coverage of the fights, and no one knew quite how to counter them. Now, they’ve been around for almost 50 years, and any politician or controversial retail outlet has had consultants help them figure out how to counter them. When I worked at a store that sold porn (as well as mainstream stuff) we were given a training on how to deal with protesters, a script for news cameras and would get paid to counter protest at stores we didn’t work at. And we were $6 an hour clerks.

In bigger cities, there are now so many protests that no one pays attention to them any more. I know in Minneapolis, there were protests for so long between 1988 and 1992 against various Reagan/Bush policies that it wasn’t covered in the news at all. Same with the anti-abortion protesters that eventually quit protesting in front of the abortion clinic who just weren’t affecting anyone’s opinion any more.

Even non-street protests don’t seem to make a lot of sense to me. I get the “Buy Nothing Day” and it’s different variants, and they don’t seem like a protest to me. Here in the US, Buy Nothing Day is the day after Thanksgiving, and every news story the next day is how much MORE was spent than the previous year (and no matter how much more it is, it’s still disappointing to stores). The other ones, you aren’t stopping your purchase so much as delaying it…I still need to put gas in my car, so I’ll just buy it on Wednesday instead of Thursday.

So, with all this in mind, are there are forms of organized protest that are still effective in getting a message out to people? Is that the reason a protest is done? And if not, are they being done?
 
 
break
19:45 / 13.02.05
Not that this goes in any way of effectively dealing with this question, but I thought this short article from the August 28 edition of the New Scientist has some relevence:

When do you want it? now!

Chaining yourself to bulldozers and throwing paint over company executives is more likely to influence environmental policy than schmoozing on Capitol Hill. So says an analysis of the impact of the green movement in the US between 1960 and 1994.

The study compares the number of bills passed by Congress with tactics employed by green groups in the same year. Jon Agnone, a sociologist at the University of Washington, Seattle, found that sit-ins, rallies and boycotts were highly effective at forcing new environmental laws. Each protest raised the number of pro-environment bills passed by 2.2 per cent. Neither effort spent schmoozing politicians nor the state of public opinion made any difference.

But conventional politics does play a part. Environmental legislation is 75 per cent more likely to pass when Democrats control both houses of Congress. And it gets a 200 per cent boost in congressional election years, presumably because politicians see it as a vote winner.

Agnone, who presented his results on 17 August at the American Sociological Association's meeting in San Francisco, says protest groups lose their edge when they become part of the system. Their most effective weapon is disruption. "If you make a big enough disturbance then people have to recognise what you are doing."

This is no surprise, says John Passacantando, executive director of Greenpeace USA. "We know that unless a politician feels real pressure, or a chief executive senses a threat to his market, everything else is just talk."
From issue 2462 of New Scientist magazine, 28 August 2004, page 4



That said, a part of me feels like we need to look at protest movements of a hundered years ago or so and see what worked for them and what didn't. I feel that a part of the effectiveness of the civil rights movement is the fact that television was a reletively new media form and a novelty. There weren't 5,000 stations vying for people's attention, and it's safe to say that most people weren't accustomed to seeing that sort of imagery. Now it's commonplace (especially after the Seattle WTO demonstration) and people are desensitized.

When I was involved in student activism (late nineties till early '00s) it seemed like the success of some actions was based on the amount of media attention given to it. Of course, this makes sense to a certain extent, since you want to get your message out to a broader audience, but barring a few good yet insular media venues (Free Speech Radio, Pacifica Radio, Indy Media, Democracy Now!), the news media doesn't give a toss unless they feel that something will sell copies and ad space. Not to even mention the intellectual laziness of a news media that sees itself as stenogrophers of the powerful. As Chomsky said, there's no need for censorship when journalists are trained not to question the dominant authority.

More recent movements that I can think of that were effective (right now I'm thinking of the anti-apartheid movement of the 80's) were so because in addition to masive street protests there were more local programs of forcing universities to divest from companies that were involved with the South African government (ie, Shell and the diamond trade). This was obviously a more local tactic in the overall strategy of the movement, and I think that local focuses are generally more effective. It makes for a slightly smaller Goliath.

As such, I don't think that protest by itself is ever really effective. Protests create these large flashy exhibits which help draw attention to things, but they shouldn't be seen as the main strategy, just one tactic to it all. When we do have marches and protest, they also need to be more that feel-good measures. Here where I live (Madison, WI) I feel that's all they are. There's a template to which everything ascribes to, and they seldom seek to actually be confrontational. There's no storming of offices, there's no public humiliations, or anything of the sort.

The system as it stands is entirely resistant to populist attempts at social change. (Has it really ever been otherwise?) It seems to me that if we are to be effective we need to be aware of the antibody responses (to use a metaphore) of the political and economic body and be able to adapt to and overcome them. It's been done before, but we've overexposed the target to our tactics and it has developed an automatic response. I really feel that by looking back and incorporating forgotten tactics in modern ways we could overcome atrophied defenses (to entirely overuse a metaphore.)

One other note: modern day protest movements are different beasts than the civil rights movement, women's suffrage, or the labor movements. Those all had clear and definite impacts on the people who engaged in them. They were marching for their own lives. It was intimate and personal, and as such had a broader populist aspect. This isn't to say that such an intimacy is impossible to demonstrate in the issues of the day, but so far I for one haven't seen a broad or solid attempt to do so.

I hope this is all fairly coherent, as I wrote it in a staggered fashion. First real post of a long-time lurker.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
20:45 / 13.02.05
they also need to be more that feel-good measures

I don't think this aspect should be overlooked, however- apart from anything elso, large protests DO have (as far as I can tell) the effect of making people feel less isolated in their position- solidarity is more than just a buzzword, it's vital, and if you lose that, you're fucked. While a whole bunch of people marching may have zero effect on Mr Tony or Uncle George's policies at all, it does provide a space for those in opposition to meet others, to be convinced that theire cause isn't lost, etc.

Protests aren't just about confronting the enemy- they're about inspiring your allies. Publicity for the Stop the War Alliance over here (I know it's not such a hot example as we singularly failed to Stop the War, but you know what I mean) was fantastic after the million-plus march in London- that's got to be a good thing, considering most of the publicity was really positive.

I think we need to separate direct action from protests per se, though- they can be very different beasts. I'd be inclined to say direct action, when used well, is more effective AGAINST THE TARGET... it can often have negative effects on the "inspiring your allies" end of things. It's getting a balance that's important. (Or, as in one notable demonstration/riot in Brick Lane against the BNP, they can both work to each other's advantage).
 
 
Brigade du jour
21:10 / 13.02.05
Now, they’ve been around for almost 50 years

Small point (mine usually are, ho ho), but what about something like the Peasants' Revolt of 1381? Would that not count as a protest? I mean okay, most of them got killed but still things got changed.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
14:10 / 15.02.05
OK....protests have been around for a long time, but I meant the kind of marches that are around since the civil rights movement in the US.

And while the "feel good" aspect of the protest is important, I think it has almost taken over the typical march. I went to one anti-war protest about a year ago, and more time was spent planning the next one then actually giving information to people who were walking by.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
22:25 / 17.02.05
the medium is the message, after all Solitaire Rose...

(i'll get my coat.)

...

well what do you expect. as you said, there is a proliferation of media friendly zones that erhhh the media don't frequent. the revolution won't be televised (jesus i'm cliched this evening) but that doesn't mean it's not worth continuing. late capitalism has consumed everything, most definitely what there was of a counter-culture, but feck it who cares? come spring and some nice weather i'll be having fun, marching like everyone else. if anyone wants to spilt hairs about kropotkin or foucault i'm down with that as well.
as the great Emma Goldman said, "If I can't dance, I want no part of your revolution."
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
00:01 / 18.02.05
Protesting has become so pidgeonholed by the mainstream media that it is next to useless, in my opinion. A lot of the fault can be placed on lazy and conservative media, but a lot of blame has to be shouldered by entities in the protest movements themselves.

I think the number one thing that protesters need to understand is that if you look like a freak or a hippie, no one is going to take you seriously. If you see any protesters on regular television news, they usually show people doing something ridiculous like a "die-in" or dressed up like a jackass. People make crazy costumes at home and dress up and go out and look like total jerk-offs.

If you look like a hippie, people will just say "oh, it's those fucking hippies again" and not even consider the message. Now, if your average hippie would cut his hair and shave and wear a shirt and tie and look like a junior executive or an accountant, that would project an image that the people you are trying to reach could identify with. You already have the hippie legions on your side. It's the average, CNN-watching 9-to-5 mainstream Joe Blow that you want. So why show up looking like a freak? Why not present a socially acceptable veneer, just for that one day? Is a hippie's carefully cultivated "countercultural appearance" too important cover up? Protesters should try to appeal to the people they're trying to reach, not alienate them.

I do confess to having a chip on my shoulder about this. I went to hippie college and these kids would all get together and go protest something every week, without even knowing what the fuck they were talking about until they read the "literature" in the van on the way. It was the cool social event of the week, and the teachers would let them get off of class for that shit. It just goes to show that the whole protest culture is fundamentally flawed. A lot of people are just doing it to be cool and rebellious and impress their buddies and they don't even consider what total assholes they look like. These fuckers give progressives a bad name.
 
 
lekvar
01:29 / 18.02.05
I'd agree with the spirit of jakegnosis' assessment. I can't help wonder what would happen if, for one protest, the puppets, facepaint, and other "shocking" accouterments were left at home, and everybody showed up wearing a tie. Or black hoodies like that Emenem video. Hell, let's see everyone wearing an armband with a heart on it. They want femeinazis, let's give them feminazis!

One thing that politician and the media realized a while ago is that a group of individuals isn't likely to do more than make noise and look funny. The days when dressing different was legitimate act of protest are behind us. Back in the 60's and 70's, the hippies and yahoos and yippies and SDS students were seen as a real threat to the fabric of society. Today they're just "eccentric." The media is desensitized to the spectacle, the politicians are desensitized, and I am too.

The protests themselves are important, and as Stoatie points out, the camaraderie and solidarity are things that need to be kept. But they have become sideshows, and I think it might be time to take the matter a little more seriously.

*this is written from the viewpoint of someone who has indulged in all "colorful" protest stylings listed above. Next time, I wear a suit.*
 
 
Ender
04:51 / 18.02.05
Protests have become comical, many are now like a social gathering, oh and lets hold signs. I will never forget Charlie Sheen blowing bubbles and dancing around at an anti-iraq protest. He was interviewed and just couldn’t stop being silly.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
08:38 / 18.02.05
jakegnosis
If you look like a hippie, people will just say "oh, it's those fucking hippies again" and not even consider the message. Now, if your average hippie would cut his hair and shave and wear a shirt and tie and look like a junior executive or an accountant, that would project an image that the people you are trying to reach could identify with. You already have the hippie legions on your side. It's the average, CNN-watching 9-to-5 mainstream Joe Blow that you want. So why show up looking like a freak? Why not present a socially acceptable veneer, just for that one day?


At the London anti-war rally, over a million people hit the streets. It wasn't all dirty long-haired hippies with flowers in their hair. Every cross section of the populace was there, from suited and booted city types to parents with their children in push-chairs. Britain still went to war.
The media in UK/US is mainly right-wing and reactionary, *even* CNN.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
10:37 / 18.02.05
Yes but all of those people were wearing casual clothes and the point that's being suggested here is surely that protests would be more effective, get more attention if we were dressed as an army. I think that's absolutely right... dress correctly and you manipulate your environment, even if we all wore black it would be a uniform that people would find striking. 150,000 human beings, not in a range of colours but as a solid force. Wear a suit on a weekday and you blend in but when you're surrounded by all those other people walking down the street in corporate clothing: there's a power that we could find in this.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:22 / 18.02.05
and everybody showed up wearing a tie. Or black hoodies like that Emenem video

People do dress like this at protests, all the time. The idea that it's just filthy hippies and freaks is a reactionary myth, but as previous threads about protests have shown, the majority of people on Barbelith are all too willing to buy into reactionary myths about protesting. This idea that if people dressed differently they'd be taken more seriously is a nonsense for two reasons: firstly if the demands of the protestors were the same, the powers that be (government + media) would find some other pretext for dismissing their views; secondly, the same people who advocate this usually also suggest tailoring the language and action of protests as well, essentially meaning that the content as well as the form is being redefined - and redefined to suit, yes, the demands of the powers that be (dress well, stand up straight, walk in line, make only 'reasonable' demands...). That defeats the point of a protest somewhat, to my mind.

Dressing as an army isn't a bad idea, indeed it's been done by protest movements throughout history. However that tends to scare meek little small-c conservatives almost as much as a little light property damage...

Finally, the idea that if a protest is also a social event, that's BAD and should be mocked is also nonsense - if people can have fun and take part in human interaction at these events, so much the better.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:06 / 18.02.05
Fly's last paragraph nails it for me. I seem to remember that was the thinking behind the "I Spy" protest game... by the very act of turning up you're making your point. There's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying yourself while you're there. Protesting is about celebration and solidarity too, not just whingeing. It's about the people acting together- and if social interaction is frowned on, then that doesn't strike me as very "together", and even if your aims are achieved, you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
13:43 / 18.02.05
With respect to jakegnosis most of what ze said was rubbish. I didn't march against the bombing of Afghanistan and Iraq because I was trying to convince Mr and Mrs Middle England that it was a bad thing. I marched because I wanted to show I was part of a movement that believed it was a bad thing. If a news camera zoomed in on me and people thought 'ugh, a dirty tranny!' then fuck 'em, I'm still glad I marched and I wear clothes just like everyone else in this country.

Except for that naked rambler guy.


The weirdo.

Just possibly people saw the crowds of people on one of the earlier marches and that inspired them to join one of the later ones. Any one that is likely to be prejudiced against people because of their clothing is not likely to be the sort of person that would be willing to march anyway against anything. Except possibly being told they can't hunt foxes any more.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:27 / 18.02.05
However that tends to scare meek little small-c conservatives almost as much as a little light property damage...

You always know just what to say.

Just because jakegnosis has never been to a serious protest (sorry jake but really, sometimes the only thing that's truly light-hearted by the end of the day is the guy dressed in fuschia) doesn't mean he doesn't have a point. I mean sure he may not like hippies- you need to get over that kid- but let's ignore his bias for one second and talk about the idea. Being dismissed as flakes, allowing people to do that, only makes the protest less credible.
Let's not drag the thread down by giving his anti-hippy nonsense any space.

I love protests, I have fun on them but we shouldn't dismiss the aesthetic power of thousands of people who have dressed together.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
15:41 / 18.02.05
Let's just imagine a march in which everyone were wearing suits. Let's imagine what the news reports would say in The Times:

"Thousands of protesters, DRESSED UP as businessmen..."
 
 
lekvar
20:07 / 18.02.05
I understand all the points being made here, but please consider this - who are you trying to impress when you protest? The only point of being colorful and dressing up is to impress each other. If you're trying to get the attention of the people in power, they'll just see some "fucking hippies" as jakegnossis puts it, and dismiss the message. If they look on the TV and see people who resemble the middle class they try so hard to court they might pay attention.
During the leadup to the Iraq Invasion the local Longshoremen protested and the media took notice. The Teamsters protested and the media took notice. The local, ever-so-colorful eccentrics protested, and the media showed pictures of people cavorting amd mugging for the camera.
The media gravitates to flamboyant imagery, but if the spectacle is too colorful it threatens to drown out the message.
 
 
PatrickMM
00:52 / 19.02.05
Just possibly people saw the crowds of people on one of the earlier marches and that inspired them to join one of the later ones. Any one that is likely to be prejudiced against people because of their clothing is not likely to be the sort of person that would be willing to march anyway against anything.

But I don't think your'e trying to get more protesters with your protest, you're trying to appeal to the people who are being sold this war, and force them to reconsider their point of view, through the sheer force of numbers. So, you do need to appeal to people who would be prejudiced against someone because of their clothing, that person may be reactionary and intolerant in some respects, but he/she can still act as a voice against the war.

It's really unfortunate, but the world we live in now, conservatives control the game. This is why despite Bush being a ridiculously right wing conservative, it's Kerry who constantly got shat on as an out of control liberal. I hate to compromise to, but I definitely feel like the protest needs to be reinvented.

The 60s has such a strong legacy, and I feel like most protests are covered by the media as a bunch of people trying to recapture a time when the protest really meant something. It's more of a nostalgic act than a forward thinking one. I think this is the primary thing holding protest back, because they're not new anymore, they don't force people to reassess their views. The best solution I could come up with is rather than a protest, do something like missionary operations, where you have people go around, in a very calm, non-controversial way, and try to talk to individuals and promote the cause you're on about, not raising money, just trying to create a change of thought There's where the business suit look would be necessary, as opposed to the old hippie look. Your average citizen doesn't turn to a guy who looks like he hasn't showered in a week for advice on politics.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
03:45 / 19.02.05
As inchocolate has already pointed out...

At the London anti-war rally, over a million people hit the streets. It wasn't all dirty long-haired hippies with flowers in their hair. Every cross section of the populace was there, from suited and booted city types to parents with their children in push-chairs. Britain still went to war.

To be honest, I'd go further than that. I'd say the respectable middle-class made up the majority of the march, from what I could see.
 
 
alas
15:00 / 19.02.05
"The fantasy of the Grand March [...] is the political kitsch joining leftists of all times and tendencies.  The Grand March is the splendid march on the road to brotherhood, equality, justice, happiness; it goes on and on, obstacles notwithstanding, for obstacles there must be if the march is to be the Grand March.
            The dictatorship of the proletariat or democracy? Rejection of the consumer society or demands for increased productivity?  The guillotine or an end to the death penalty?  It is all beside the point.  What makes a leftist a leftist is not this or that theory but his ability to integrate any theory into the kitsch called the Grand March." (Milan Kundera, Lightness, 257)

But just because it may be kitsch, may not mean we should reject it. See this article. Just be aware of it.

I do, actually, believe that the awareness that the world was watching has had some, small effect on this war. It has also possibly contributed, however, to the Abu-Ghraib coverup (and I believe it pretty much has been 'covered up' insofar as anyone with real power was involved) and the Guantanamo Bay atrocities. But we can't be vigilant without a little sustenance of human companionship, and I do believe the grand march provides all these things--a sense of companionship, a sense of making a statement, and finally, a small sense that people are watching, people are paying attention, you must say something.

Is it enough? nope. But one thing is rarely enough.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
15:56 / 19.02.05
(tangent)
Just thought I'd mention that the Public Order Act 1936 banned political uniforms in Britain. It was introduced in response to Mosley's fascists and their blackshirts.
(/tangent)
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
00:00 / 20.02.05
It doesn't matter if it's fair that protests are dismissed because of the more outlandish and radical elements present. They are, and if protesters want to be taken seriously by the mainstream they have to look like serious people to the mainstream. If you strap on a big papier-mache cock, no one is going to take you seriously and your point will be obscured by the fact that you look like a freak.

And if the point of protesting isn't trying to get people to listen to you, then I would love to know what it is.

Oh, and I don't really hate hippies, either. I'm just pissed off with all of the wasted energy that could be used in more constructive ways.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
00:22 / 20.02.05
jakegnosis
It doesn't matter if it's fair that protests are dismissed because of the more outlandish and radical elements present. They are, and if protesters want to be taken seriously by the mainstream they have to look like serious people to the mainstream.


The problem in Britain is that the protesters were *serious people*, middle class VOTERS, yet their voice wasn't heard.


I would argue that I don't live in a democracy but a corporate state. The amount of money that government ministers receive from the public purse is small compared to the lucrative lecture circuits, publishing deals, company directorships etc. The politicians are cloistered in westminister (the village they call it.) surrounded by secretaries, lobbyists, staff, hacks and other people trying to buy influence on behalf of states or multinationals or ngos. They are insensitive to the wishes of the electorate and only maintain any pretense to the contrary during commemorations, other media events or election time.
 
 
alas
21:22 / 20.02.05
I do think there's a lack of nuance in the argument that the only way to be taken seriously by the broader culture is to conform to its most conservative rules of dress or other standards of propriety whenever one engages with it.

I like to look at the civil rights movement in the United States: the "good" black protesters (and white allies), who wore "conservative" clothes as they walked into segregated schools, sat at lunch counters, etc., were not, I think, drowned out by the more threatening style adopted black power movement and the Afro-centric clothing styles adopted by others. They were complemented by them.

I think we may need more styles and modes of protest, not fewer, and specifically I think we need to scare conservatives at some level. We need something akin to Malcolm X to make our more MLK approach seem more palatable by comparison.

And, dammit, there's a whole slew of problems related to the conservative style of dress that are related to the problems in the culture that many of us in the left simply cannot support.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:47 / 21.02.05
"Thousands of protesters, DRESSED UP as businessmen..."

So you're not of the opinion that a photograph tells a story then? Because I think that picture of Hyde Park is extremely powerful, especially if you've been to Hyde Park and then when I think about an image of people marching through the streets in a colour or a uniform... I think the picture would scare people and after that march and the nonsense that Blair came out with as a result of it, I wonder if we don't need to scare.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:48 / 21.02.05
... I think we need to wear our class on the outside.
 
 
MJ-12
15:56 / 21.02.05
We need something akin to Malcolm X to make our more MLK approach seem more palatable by comparison.

However, Malcolm & the Fruit of Islam dressed about as conservativly as possible.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
21:31 / 21.02.05
What worked in the sixties is not applicable today because the "scare factor" of protests and protesters has been skillfully marginalized by the mainstream media. People have seen this before and there's no "holy shit" factor, especially when the media consistently downplays the size of protests and focuses on the most radical elements present in a (very successful) attempt to discredit them.

The theory is sound but the practice is fundamentally flawed.

(At least in the US- I have no idea what UK protests are like, except that the fuckers in charge over here probably care even less about them, if that's possible.)
 
 
solomon
00:58 / 22.02.05
we need to totally revamp our strategy. something of interedt to all here might be found at:


no biggie, just the latest manifestation of the discordian counter conspiracy to destroy babylon reality once and for all.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:15 / 22.02.05
Nina (logardiere) "Thousands of protesters, DRESSED UP as businessmen..."
So you're not of the opinion that a photograph tells a story then?


I was specifically replying to jakegnosis suggesting here that all we need to do to overthrow the government is wear suits. I think your belief that all that's lacking from revolutions is everyone dressing up like they want to be in Franz Ferdinand to not hold up. They won't say 'thousands of protesters, dressed up as hippies' but they will defuse your grand statement by suggesting it's fake.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
17:07 / 22.02.05
So what exactly, are protests good for, then?
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
20:21 / 22.02.05
What are protests good for, then?

Getting phone numbers of foxy young revolutionaries? Playing "guess which protesters are undercover cops"? Killing an afternoon? Letting people know that you and your group of protesters are really upset about something?

I guess that last one is all you lot really care about. If you're going to have any success in that, whoever you are directing that message at has to give a shit regarding who you are. Numbers might just be irrelevant.

Maybe protests worked better back in the day because the line between "protesters" and "angry mob" wasn't as well defined. Or at least the threat of one becoming the other was still around. After all, one group is easily ignored, the other one not so much.

Not that I'm advocating the formation of a violent, angry mob rather than a peaceful crowd of protesters. I'm just suggesting that maybe, such as in the case of protesting against a company or corporation, instead of "protesters" you could be "concerned customers and/or stockholders". If anyone with a news camera asks you "what exactly are you protesting?" you should immediately answer "we aren't protesters, we are (insert respectable and hopefully more relevant name of group here)."

Just a few ideas. But I'm not one for protests; it seems to me that if you can organize that many people then by god you can actually do things, rather than stand around telling people you're upset. You know, shake things up a bit. Cause a bit of unrest. Or maybe I've been living in this rotten city for too long, where no one gives a damn if all you're doing is standing around.
 
 
unheimlich manoeuvre
01:34 / 24.02.05
So what exactly, are protests good for, then?

Protest are also good for reminding people what has been forgotten. My current heroes are the Yes Men.

Regarding Bhopal and Dow Chemicals...
Mr Finisterra turned out to be a hoaxer from a group called the Yes Men, online activists who create fake but well-crafted web parodies to make political statements.
 
 
solomon
21:15 / 25.02.05
The current targets of the global protest movement seems to have moved from the anti-globalization WTO demos to a more simple black and white anti-Bush force. It might co against the defeatist hopless grain ofthis thread, but i think this is a powerful, potentially effective movement.

This is the leader of the most powerful nation on earth, and however the media want to spin it, when thousands of citizens from every demographic take the day off work or school to tell the champion of global freedom "Fuck Off. Don't come to our country" it puts the lie in his mouth.

Last week there were thousands of protesters against Bush when he went to Germany (the media wouldn't even name a number, low balled or not, as far as I saw). Before that, when he came to Canada we had 8000 people in Ottowa and another 4000 in Halifax, Nova Scotia. That's more impressive if you knew how small a city Halifax is, and how short the notice was to pull it together. The week before that there were 30 000 in a South American capital!
(Rio de Janero? If someone remembers, it might help me look less foolish next time I mention this).

Will we overthrow Bushie? No, but we will make his life harder. The Canadian demos helped swing Canadian parliment into refusing to go allong with missile defence, made Bush look like he had no allies even on this continent right before his trip to Europe to mend fences, and visibly angered CNN comentators "Is this picture live from Lybia? No America, this is Canada, our frosty neibour to the north." When canadians get militantly pissed, that should send a message to the world. Soon the swiss won't even be neutral.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
01:30 / 09.03.05
I wouldn't describe the Yes Men thing as a protest by any stretch of the imagination. It's apples and oranges. And yes, that was fucking AWESOME. I saw it on Democracy Now! and immediately thought of you guys and started a thread. That was the balls.
 
  

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