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Binding Sexual Desires

12:17 / 11.02.05

I'm in the middle of helping design a projest for a group of witches that participate in sex magick rituals. They've had little luck finding a ritual to bind sexual desires, which would play a role it whatever it is they are doing at the moment. (I'm not clear on all the details just yet) I just though I'd ask here if anyone is aware of any link to info on binding sexual desires (temporarily, not permanently). Thanks in advance.

12:20 / 11.02.05

Could you clarify what you mean and explain what the purpose behind this is?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:56 / 11.02.05

Yes, I'm a bit perplexed here. Do you mean control or supression of sexual desire? Or do you mean channelling the power of sexual desire to a prticular end?

12:57 / 11.02.05

They haven't told me much yet. I'm not actually part of the circle, just inquiring on their behalf. From what I can gather, the project they are working on right now involves "achieving a level of sexual energy untainted by desire", which is exactly as it was put to me. So basically they want to be able to engage in sexual activity on a spiritual level for this project without feeling lust, desire, etc. Sounds a bit unlikely to happen to me, but no harm in asking I suppose. I find the idea of doing something like this with absolutely no physical desire at all highly improbable.

12:59 / 11.02.05

Both. Evidently they want to completely suppress it for part of the project and then raise the energy level for another portion without tainting that energy with lust or desire. Like I said before, sounds a bit improbable to me.

13:26 / 11.02.05

I have decided that, as of today, I am going to make a concerted effort to be more magnanimous, generous and just plain nicer to people on here and elsewhere, but this thread contains such a spectacularly inane idea that I really can't leave it alone.

Firstly, anyone who thinks that lust and desire are not entirely spiritual processes is unfathomably stupid and should be beaten savagely with a swan. Secondly, magic, especially work like binding, is not an exact science. If you don't want to risk something being bound forever, don't fucking bind it! The idea of trying to bind your sexual desires for the sake of a sex magic working (of all things...) – and then wanting to put those desires back in place after the work is done, just like nothing ever happened – is literally the most fuckwitted thing I've ever read on barbelith or anywhere else. Even more so if the people involved are seemingly so clueless that they require some other party to design their rituals for them, and that person in turn has to go on a message board to ask someone else. What insane world am I peering nervously into?

13:46 / 11.02.05

Indeedy. I would suggest that they’ve had little luck finding materials because such a rite does not exist and I’m quite glad that it doesn’t. I think they’re idea contains the nasty meme that desire and lust are somehow wrong, bad or even worse – unspiritual! It sounds like this meme is at war with another one which is sex is magickal and generally a good thing. Bit of a lack of clarity to me. I’d rather take an honest look at my life/desires/hang-ups etc than try to surpress them for some unspecified and, I suspect, ill-thought out magickal purpose.

To be more helpful, I did have some interesting phenomena occur relating to arousal without any mental content when working with Taoist meditations (lesser energy orbit) and the work of Wilhelm Reich. However, this was a side effect of this work rather than the intent. Both are good ways of getting to know your body, it’s processes and tensions - to go into either looking for methods of surpression is totally contrary to the spirit of the work.

Afterthought - according to Freud, we’re binding our libido all the time anyway, thus civilisation.

13:57 / 11.02.05

More constructively, the problem they are facing is probably rooted in this weird idea that they seem to have of lust and sexual desire not being spiritual, perhaps thinking of it as base or even dirty or something. They might want to consider working to transform their perception of lust so that it is experienced as the divine and holy spiritual radiance that it is. It's not their sexual desire that needs to be worked on, it's the way they frame and think about that desire in the context of the work.

14:04 / 11.02.05

Pete Carroll does actually mention experiencing arousal without content somewhere in Liber Null, but so what? I can see how it might be useful and cathartic if you can only get it up with a redheaded prositute in a scuba diving outfit licking jam off your legs, or some similar troubling fetish, but otherwise, why bother?

14:19 / 11.02.05

Perhaps there's a problem in the way they're phrasing things? Are they possibly trying to conceive "sexual energy" without a specific object of desire - a generalized sexual arousal not linked to a particular act or fantasy? 'Cos that's an altogether different thing than "not feeling lust or desire," and I can imagine it could be both possible (albeit difficult) and potentially useful (depending on what, exactly, the heck they want to do???).

On the whole, though, I'm going to echo the others in this thread and say that binding sexual desire isn't such a hot idea. Focusing and redirecting it, sure, but that's a matter of exercising self-discipline, and doesn't sound like what they're looking for (from the admittedly sketchy information given).

Now, if you just want to "shut off the valve," so to speak, the folk magics of the world provide more than enough options - usually classed under "cursing" or "crossing" - and they can work very well. Turning the valve back on, though... it's less a matter of "off" and "on" than of "attack" followed by "medical treatment."

~L

14:28 / 11.02.05

Gypsy and Illmatic, I bet if you got told when you got up this morning that one of you would mention beating someone with a swan and the other would mention redheaded prostitutes, scuba diving outfits and licking jam off legs in this forum you'd both be dying to log in and see what the hell was going on.

The only thing I can suggest is that you tell them to try the Buddhist method of concentrating on/imagining what is loathsome in order to remove themselves from the desire. Whether or not that will work though I have no idea.

23:55 / 11.02.05

Okay, now that I'm not at work let me try to clear things up a bit (though I'm still a little foggy on it all myself.)

First of all, this really isn't my area. These are people that I don't know too well, but I've gotten a hold of some magickal paraphenalia for them in the past and designed a magick circle or two for them. They seem to have a dislike for the internet, though that doesn't stop them from asking me to access the net for info for them. I'm beginning to think they like the idea of having a 'contact' to get a hold of things for them. I have an extensive archine of PDFs on a huge variety of magickal practices, but sex magick isn't my thing and I don't even know where to start looking for this. I'm not about to skim though a few millions of pages of PDF to find a starting point.

That said, I've talked to them some more this evening and gotten a better idea of whats going on. All I can say is I don't think they know what they want to do any more than I do. I'd only met one of them previously, the one who actually makes inquiries through me. I met some of the others today and I can only describe them as ditzy college chicks dabbling in something they think is 'freaky'. Yes, I'm sickened.

Evidently there is on chick, the one I've had contact with before, that is semi-serious about her magickal studies. She'd been trying to form a coven but the ditzy college chicks is all she's come up with in this backwater hick town. The problem she is having is that a couple of the girls are so damn sleazy all they can think of is getting to the sex part and the hell with any higher meaning in between.

So I basically told her to ditch the morons, look into solitary witchcraft and leave the alone unless there is something serious she needs. I also told her to get the internet and acrobat reader and do some research herself. I have enough projects of my own going on.

Sorry to bother you all with such an inane topic. I really wish I'd have taken the time to think that one through a little better before posting on it. At least it was good for a few laughs.

00:09 / 12.02.05

They don't seem to be telling you much. Are you sure they are actually "witches", as opposed to "fundamentalist Christians" or even "self-loathing abstinence fetishists"?

01:22 / 12.02.05

I think they are a bunch of friggin idiots.

Honestly the more I hear them talk, I'd have to say they are probably agnostic trying to do something they think makes them look cool. None of them seam to be overly religious at all. Hell, one of them just gave me a funny look when I mentioned wicca.

10:52 / 12.02.05

The problem she is having is that a couple of the girls are so damn sleazy all they can think of is getting to the sex part and the hell with any higher meaning in between.

How can I join?

11:36 / 12.02.05

You'd probably have to wait in line behind the football team for your turn.

--

23:30 / 13.02.05

Did I just spot Jerry Springer?

10:00 / 14.02.05

Yep that was springer. Looks like he was filling in for the high priest position.

00:10 / 22.02.05

jerry springer is the heirophant of our aeon, didn't you hear? "is nothing propfane these days?"

seems like the original querants don't really give a fuck, but if anyone following this thread is interested it sounds like this is really about preventing the magical desire from getting confused with your partner during some kind of sex rite? or re-focussing the energy raised toward another aim, without it being attatched to your partner.

or, mebbee, some uptight occult society of tight assed preppy sorority sisters wants to focus their sexually repressed lobido energy into world domination. i hope, i hope...

hmm... to find the answer i consulted the heirophant directly by working myself into an extatic mastubatory trance state by beating off to daytime television.

ascended master says: in case of the first, perform one great rite, while all participants are blindfolded. combine with sigilized desire/intent or other spell.
sleaze-o-mancy. neat-o!

for the second case only 12 virgins sacrificed on the first of every may will suffice, and any resulting empire will collapse at once if the mistress of residence god is not appesed. or brand your spell on a chastity belt. ha!

Tryphena Absent

09:16 / 23.02.05

it sounds like this is really about preventing the magical desire from getting confused with your partner during some kind of sex rite?

Yeah because binding's going to do that.

Isn't the point of the sex rite that you harness the power of it... so how exactly could anyone do that if they took all of those little things that make it sex away?

Tryphena Absent

09:18 / 23.02.05

By the way solomon that wasn't aimed at you- more the world.

20:42 / 25.02.05

that's ok. you're probably right. we should pobably be more concerned with unbinding sexual energy. i'm feeling a bit bound up at the momemt as a matter of fact.
Whatever i say, it shoud be taken with a grain of salt. i mean less than half of what i say

Less searchable M0rd4nt

08:36 / 26.02.05

Isn't the point of the sex rite that you harness the power of it... so how exactly could anyone do that if they took all of those little things that make it sex away?

Ah but you see--those things are a bit sticky and fiddly and too generally messy for many Great and Powerful magickains to be entirely comfortable with.

Unconditional Love

12:37 / 13.05.07

Well, kind of on topic, but just off the mark as well.
I am having some experiences around orgasm that are leaving me feeling very unbound, clear almost in the head.

Particularly friday of this week, as approaching climax my face contorted into different shapes for about 30 minutes, it was unnerving at first, but ive had weirder experiences so i just let it go for however long it wanted to last, the orgasm kind of cured it if cured is the right word.

The feeling that is coming after is like being totally unbound, self isnt an option, the contortions feel like all the masks i wear to socialise twisting out of my flesh, the contortions are uncontrollable, i have had similar experiences by putting effort into reichian exercises.

Since friday it has died down to the whole torso vigorously and uncontrollably shaking at the point of orgasm. I wonder if the whole experience is related to therapy and my starting court proceedings, i have observed that some other behaviours have died away since i started down a path to healing myself.

Any other people experienced anything of this kind, something i can only describe as sexual healing or release?

Mako is a hungry fish

14:13 / 13.05.07

It's something that can occur during Yoga, and something I've encountered through mentally mapping and clearing my nadis.

22:20 / 13.05.07

I'm still confused.

What's the difference between "desire/lust" and "sexual energy" in a sex-magic context?

--Ember--

Mako is a hungry fish

03:54 / 14.05.07

Desire and lust are forms of energy within sexual energy; if sexual energy were a pantheon they'd be pretty important however the pantheon could still function without them, though not in the same way nor to the same degree.

Depending on ones interpretation of sex, desire, and lust, they can either be fully independant or fully intertwined, though perhaps a happy medium is best. Desire requires the interaction of two forces, the desired and that which desires, as does sex, however sex tends to be a much greater interaction - desire can occur quite easily in the realms of fantasy, however if it is fulfilled in reality than it is an act of sex. For instance, I can desire that two forces interact however this may never come to be in the flesh, though an act of sex has occurred between them in 'idea' - their images may come together in my mind, which is a subjective reality unto itself - however should these forces interact in 'objective' reality it is an act of sex.

Lust is basically an abundance of desire, which quite often can result in the desire being fulfilled; should the desire not be fulfilled or be fulfilled to too great an extent, the helpful nature of lust can quite easily turn harmful. I think that whilst it can be possible to remove lust from sexual energy, especially if the desire aspect is already being fulfilled and so excess desire is no longer useful (as there's only so hard n fast one can go) I don't think it's possible to fully remove desire from sex; on some level, conscious or otherwise, one force must desire to move or be subject to the desire of another force to move it, in order for it to do so.

07:02 / 14.05.07

Any other people experienced anything of this kind, something i can only describe as sexual healing or release?

This is in Reich's stuff as well, Wolfangel. See in particular "The Function of the Orgasm".