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Smart Drugs

 
 
Axolotl
18:37 / 03.02.05
Now I know while there have been previous discussions about smart drugs we haven't had one for a while and I am looking for a way to combat all the damage I do to my brain with my lifestyle (by which I mean booze). Can anyone recommend any smart drugs, vitamin supplements, information sources and/or suppliers of such things? I am particularly interested in mood enhancers as well as stopping my descent into stupidity.
 
 
grant
20:28 / 03.02.05
For a while, I used a supplement called DMAE-14. It kicked in after about two weeks, but I had trouble sleeping -- always thinking, always distracted. So I stopped.

It definitely goosed up my brain, though.
 
 
lekvar
21:12 / 03.02.05
I'm not finding any useful info on DMAE-14, grant. Any background info or links to share?
 
 
Loomis
07:25 / 04.02.05
I don't mean to sound glib, but fresh fruit and vegetables and a little exercise can do wonders to get the blood flowing and the brain working and increase your concentration.

As for vitamins, any health food store will sell really top drawer multi-vitmains. Not like the little ones you get in supermarkets; these ones are like tombstones and have a list of ingredients as long as your arm.
 
 
grant
14:18 / 04.02.05
DMAE was in that metabolic family that goes through lecithin and choline, I think. (Like lecithin is metabolized into choline, which is brainfood.)

I believe it was extracted from anchovies or sardines.

If you skip the "14" and put DMAE in Google, you get all kinds of results.

I have no idea what the difference is between DMAE-14, DMAE-H3 and regular DMAE.

I probably should, but I don't.
 
 
sine
16:32 / 04.02.05
Once upon a time, I went visiting some friends at university. While jotting down notes for a manuscript, I struck up a conversation with one of my chum's roommates about the virtues of caffeine, a steaming cup of which I was sampling at the time.

"Naw...for studying, nothing beats Vitamin R," he said.

"What's Vitamin R?" I asked.

"Ritalin. My dad works for a drug company and gets stuff for free. I have a big bottle of it upstairs. Want some?"

In the interests of controlled scientific inquiry (or maybe gonzo reporting) I said "yes". I asked what the standard dosage was. He said one a day, but for his purposes, he usually took four. I took five for good measure.

An odd hour and some later, the house had geared up into a full-scale keg party. I was sitting on the couch. The TV was blaring right beside me. Three different stereos were blasting music out of the three adjoining rooms. The entire house was full of loud drunk people in skimpy clothes.

Despite all of that, I was able to carry on a full conversation with someone and write continuous longhand at the same time. This may not sound impressive, but people there were amazed. It wasn't just that my attention was like a laser - I seemed to have more of it...like two lasers, or three. Paying full attention to multiple things was easy. And let me tell you, it wasn't due to my adamant monastic virtue.

Best damn smart drug I ever had.

That said, I do enjoy the old three: caffeine, nicotine, sugar. Those three, especially in concert, work wonders.

In a somewhat related vein, I had mad dreams while I was taking B vitamin supplements - useful maybe if you're taking smart drugs for creative purposes, but not much otherwise I'd imagine.
 
 
lekvar
19:01 / 04.02.05
fresh fruit and vegetables and a little exercise can do wonders to get the blood flowing and the brain working
Agreed, and may I add that a bananna before bed will give you fan-fucking-tastic dreams all night long? It's the potassium, so I've been told.
 
 
Axolotl
09:21 / 05.02.05
Thanks for the advice. I already exercise regularly, though I could do with upping my intake of fruit and vegetables. I'm going to try a DMAE supplement and see what happens.
 
 
modern maenad
17:02 / 06.02.05
Any combination of dandelion, milk thistle and artichoke in tincture form are great for the liver. When I'm going through a heavy drinking phase I nearly always take it twice a day and swear it helps no end. For general health omega oils v.important, either flax/linseed oil for veggies or fish oils for creature eaters.
 
 
POP
22:37 / 08.02.05
This isn't totally related but in the field of suplements/smart drugs it seems that there might be a lot more to melatonin than people think. I've been really interested in melatonin for a while and I've liked it for after things like drinking/drugs that fuck up your REM cycles. (Because good sleep is the ultimate smart drug for me...) but it looks like it might also have undesirable sexual/hormal effects.

well check it out

I also totally agree about the ritilan, and...I hate to say it, but of course speed is also great for concentration...which sucks because it's such a ghetto ass gross drug.
 
 
Charlie's Horse
18:15 / 13.02.05
Funnily enough, Ritalin's been largely replaced by Adderol in my neck of the woods, as adderol has some additives in it that make it last longer (6-10 hours instead of the 4-6 hours of ritalin). You also can't snort it without some nasty side effects, so I've been led to understand. That was a problem had with ritalin. Same basic ingredient between the two, though - pure amphetamine. The best thing to come out of this evolution is adderol in extended release ('XR') capsules. Same chemicals, but it's packaged in tiny little digestable balls wrapped up in a clear pill. The tiny packages dissolve at varying rates, giving you small doses of amphetamine over a period of hours, rather than a big lump dose all at once. Obviously you get less of a 'rush,' but you get a more stable alertness with less jittery, skin-too-tight bullshit. The ramp up and ramp down become more gradual and thusly more manageable. Best way to take stimulants if you can.

Not the kind of 'smart' drug you want to take everyday, though - I did for a while. Prescribed by a psychologist and an MD, I took the stuff for nine months straight in high school. Low doses (10-15mg a day) 5 days a week. It just feels too unnatural to maintain for long periods of time. Plus it's fairly illegal in the states if you aren't prescribed - schedule II substance. The fruits and vegetables (and fish! true brain food) are a much better option. And you could always. You know. Cut back on the drinking.

Green tea, strange to say, would probably be great for the drinking damage repair. Stuff's a natural antitoxidant, which would help you clean up all the nasty shite in your brain and liver after a night out. Has a lil' caffeine (ahh) too, for a perk up.
 
 
Ariadne
08:21 / 14.02.05
I was just reading a leaflet from a health food shop this morning on the bus, and it was talking about an 'exciting new supplement' called Phosphatidyl Serine. It's supposed to restore memory in middle and old age. Obviously it's targetting Alzheimers and the fear of it - but I wonder if it has benefits for those of us who mistreat our brains?
 
 
Axolotl
11:36 / 14.02.05
I know a lot of "smart drugs" are originally designed to be used to treat age-related loss of mental faculties so if Phosphatidyl Serine is effective for alzheimers it may well act as a smart drug.
Charlie's Horse: the amphetamine type smart drugs are a bit much for me. I'm not trying to temporarily boost my concentration while I finish an essay (those days are behind me, I hope) I'm just trying to boost my potential and minimise any damage that I may cause through my lifestyle, which isn't all that bad really.
 
 
BARISKIL666
22:20 / 28.02.05
LSD folks,plain and simple!The best smart drug ever.All the suppliments and pills in the world will be pretty useless if you drink like a fish and eat crap.There's a lot to be said for good diet,exercise,fresh air and a decent nights sleep.It's generally accepted that fish are good for your brain,probably better that forking out a lot of money for fancy suppliments.
 
 
grant
12:09 / 01.03.05
Phosphatidyl Serine.

We just got a batch of that in the office (free samples for "review" I guess) so I'm trying it out.


been taking it since friday, but nothing noticeable yet.
 
 
Tamayyurt
13:49 / 01.03.05
I take Ginkgo Biloba... don't know how effective that is.
 
 
Ariadne
14:11 / 01.03.05
Given that my last two mod jobs have been from this thread, can I assume none off these substances are kicking in yet? :-)
 
 
Alex's Grandma
04:44 / 09.03.05
Well it takes time A, it takes time.

I've also been on the Ginkgo Balboa programme lately, and it does seem to be working. I feel a bit more alert.

That said, I have also been looking into the most un-Barbelith of 'lifestyle enhancers' recently, insofar as without really meaning to, I got hold of some really excellent, er, 'white.' So as far as alertness goes, that may well explain it.
 
 
grant
15:23 / 28.03.05
Phosphatidyl Serine

Ok, I haven't been as faithful with this as I should have (skipping weekend days, sometimes forgetting to take all three caps per day), but I'm not noticing a thing.

For me, I think it's a wash.
 
 
Axolotl
19:20 / 08.04.05
I've been trying some of that DMAE, the supplement also contains some Ginseng and B vitamin complexes, I did get some benefits, but only when I took more than the recommended dosage. I think I might order some more and try a consistent slight overdose. However I think I shall wait until I get a new job, as my current one isn't exactly one where creative thinking is required. In fact it might even be a hinderance.
 
 
grant
18:51 / 12.05.05
New Scientist has a new article on a family of smart drugs called ampakines, focusing on a specific drug called "CX717."

How they work:

Ampakines work by boosting the activity of glutamate, a key neurotransmitter that makes it easier to learn and encode memory. They change the rules about what it takes to create a memory, and how strong those memories can be, says Gary Lynch of the University of California at Irvine, who invented the drugs. "We all have the same computer," he says, "but we're running with different voltage levels." Ampakines up that "voltage".



What CX717 can do:

In each test session, the volunteers started with a full night's sleep and the following morning and evening were given a battery of tests. These assessed memory, attention, alertness, reaction time and problem solving. Then, at 11 pm, the volunteers swallowed their pills and stayed up through the night. At midnight, 1 am, 3 am, 5 am and 9 am, they were re-tested on some of the tasks. And at 4 am, cruelly, they were tucked into bed in a darkened room and told to stay awake. The researchers measured heart rate and brainwave activity to monitor how alert the subjects were and whether they fell asleep.

...Even the lowest dose of CX717 significantly improved the sleep-deprived volunteers' wakefulness and cognitive performance. And the more ampakine they took, the more they improved and the longer the effect lasted.

...Meanwhile animal studies hint at even more impressive effects. Research on rhesus macaques, carried out for the US military by Sam Deadwyler at Wake Forest University School of Medicine in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, found that sleep-deprived monkeys on CX717 actually performed better on reaction time and accuracy tests than when they were well rested. And non-sleep-deprived monkeys given the drug did better still.


So, this one seems to be poised to make big changes. The human tests were done by the company manufacturing the drug, but the animal tests were done by the army.

They loves them some speed -- specially when it don't come with the crazies.
 
 
Axolotl
19:09 / 02.02.06
Right then, thought I'd revive this thread as I recently got my hands on some of this . It's a combination of various nootropic substances including DMAE (thanks Grant), Ginko Biloba and Ginseng and various B vitamin complexes. I've just started the course, but have already noticed an increase in energy and mood. I thought I might (in an completely unscientific way that would make my old teachers shudder) record my impressions here over a period of time and see what happens.
Though I was slightly worried to see that one study linked DMAE with a decreased lifespan in quail. Oh well, better to burn out than fade away I guess.
 
 
Loomis
08:25 / 03.02.06
And your eggs will be considered a delicacy.
 
 
Dr. Tom
21:12 / 19.02.06
Nootropics, a topic near and dear to me. On the USENET group rec.drugs.smart, I once frequented it under the handle "INFOHAZARD."

The number of extracts, compounds, vitamins, hormones, tingtures and drugs said to enhance cognition are legion. Availability varies from country to country.

My cat has done his best to get his paws on as many as possible and he reports back to me what he notices.

Regarding the now hoary old post about what to use to counteract the ethanolic lifestyle?

FIRST- DMAE is lovely stuff if you really, really like placebos.

Ritalin? Illegal for that purpose in most precinct. Keed Spills! Say for it what you will. Just don't come down with a bad case of cops.

The brain happens to interact with a number of other organs and I think it's a good isea to step back a bit and say hello to our old friend, the liver. The liver is a hard working organ that, unlike the brain, usually doesn't complain much. It's the second major organ that has to deal with alcohol after ingestion. The first is the stomach, which breaks down a surprising amount of alcohol in some people. The liver gets the next crack at it before the brain ever sees any. It also breaks down the vast majority of the alcohol as it makes the rounds through the blood-stream.

Some people do not have a liver designed to handle alcohol. In these people, the liver gets damaged as it does its job. Although not completely understood, this is likely because the liver does not make enough of a compound called SAM-e. SAM-e is converted to glutathione in the liver. Glutathione PROTECTS the liver from things like alcohol. SAM-e also turns into Serotonin, Norepinepherine and Dopamine in the brain. In fact, it is used by the body as a building block for a myriad of important chemicals in the joints, the stomach and elsewhere.

Where SAM-e is required to do these things, typically B12 and Folate (two B-Vitamins) are also needed to catalyze the biosyntheses.

If you want to detoxify crap, treat your liver right. That's its job and it does it well if you don't mistreat it. If you take out your live (drinking, Viral Hepatites, drugs, mushrooms, tylenol ODs, genetic problems etc., you will build up ammonia in your bloodstream from protein metabolism. Not a bad way to die- you just drift-off to never-never land as the brain is overwhelmed in a sea of toxins. The trouble is, the other half of people in liver failure die from ralphing their body's blood-supply onto the floor from the varicose veins in their esophagus (long messy story- I won't bore you with fruther details).


Where was I? Brain=> Liver... Oh, yeah.

So take a supply of B-Complex for sure. Add to that one from the following list:
1) SAM-e. Easily available at Wal-Mart in the US, but because of the instability of the molecule and difficulty handling, coating, etc. is very expensive.

There are other compounds that convert very nicely to SAM-e much more cheaply; namely

2) TMG (Trimethyl glycine, also called betaine). This is a good one. Cheap, stable, becomes SAM-e, not bad tasting. Toss a gram in your drink. Your liver will thank you. http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyInc./Amino_Acids_Single_M-Z.html#0340

3) N-Acetyl Cysteine. Sold as a supplement in the US, this is what is used in emergency rooms across the country when someone has OD'd on Tylenol (deadly, I assure you, but you take a week to die) or mushroom poisoning. NAC rapidly becomes glutathione. Tastes like skunk. Yuk. Pretty easily available in the US since the Dietary and Supplement Health act of 1994 (Yea, Clinton!)

There are a lot of other compounds in the biochemical cycle that these are involved in. For instance, Taurine probably helps and is anti-arrhythmic.

Stick with SAM-e or TMG. Brain, liver. What more could you ask for when you are a modern drunkard?

Then there's piracetam, aniracetam, Omega-3 fish oil, centrophenoxine, ALCAR, Yadda-yaddaine and many more...

My cat tells me that if you stack these right, you can approximate the mind expanxion of MDMA

I await your next quextion.
 
 
Dr. Tom
01:11 / 20.02.06
Piractam, the original "Smart Drug was developed from the study of the amino acid salt, Arginine Pyroglutamate (AP).

Mind you, piraacetam is very different from arginine pyroglutamate, but both seem to protect the brain from certain kinds of toxicity.

AP has the remarable ability to sober someone up very rapidly- then give them a massive chinese resturant headache the next morning as the breakdown to regular glutamete occurs along witht the ususal hangover symptoms. Piracetam has none of those effects, but does seem to protect the brain from a number of insults. Goes well in Gin as well.

Aniracetm, the more lipid-soluable kin of piracetam is the closest thing now available to an ampakine. Kinda fun, too. At least my cat tells me.

The ethanoic lifestyle can also cause peripheral neuropthy (think- numb, burning feet). A distinguished biochemist, Dr. Ames (of the Ames Test fame, for carcinogenicity of a chemical) notes that the combination of Alpha Lipoic Acid and Acetyl L-Carnitine is a remarkably neuroprotective and anti-aging formula. Thare's quite a bit of research covering neuropathies. Look them up in pubmed.gov.
 
 
Saltation
17:11 / 20.02.06
Re Alcohol
the whole alcohol-kills-braincells thing is a bit of a furphy. inadequate diet to metabolise alcohol can create poisons that can damage the body incl.brain. but slightly bumping your diet can fully protect your brain.

vitamin B deficiency is the key culprit finger-pointed by medical researchers.

a few years back, the Brit medical profession stepped on an NHS bid to add vitamin B to all alcoholic drinks sold in the UK on the grounds it would slash the country's total medical costs due to the kill-self alcoholics. the BMA in a usual fit of surreality declared this would encourage alcoholics to drink more. which kinda suggests they've never met let alone talked to any of the category of kill-self alcoholics that cost the medical system so much: modifying their present behaviour in order to maximise their future lifestyle is kinda NOT what drives their behaviour.

but that neatly fits Dr Tom's note re two particular vit.Bs being a key co-factor.


also: another good addition to the alcohol-excelsior's diet is NAC N-Acetyl-Cysteine. it's a key precursor to something or other the liver uses in CLEANLY metabolising alcohol, so reduces hangovers quite dramatically. yes, do the water drinking, but drop a capsule or two of this before you crash (eg, before you head out ) and you will wake up the next morning feel bizarrely fresh. you won't be clever, but you won't be hurting. interestingly, it's heavily present in eggs, fatty meat like bacon or pork sausages... oh, look, the english breakfast...


Re Smart Drugs
much lower voltage than the redoubtable Dr Tom's stellar stuff (very impressive recent postings, mate), but also worth knowing about: a combination of the amino acids L-Glutamine, L-Tyrosine, and L-Phenylalinine will also dramatically improve your concentration abilities and concentration span, plus also provides a "settling" effect if over-distractable or vaguely anxious. great for exam times or if you're heading into a mega work period.


gingko biloba, gotu kola, and fo ti teng all work the same way i believe: improve capillary circulation and thereby improve sporting capability and in a secondary effect maintain mental capability.
 
 
Dr. Tom
00:02 / 23.02.06
Saltation, Thank you for the kind words.

Amino Acids (the 20 obvious ones, plus the intermediaries) have all kinds of effects.

Lets not forget that musclehead's favorite: Creatine.

The body uses this to hold onto phosphate groups which is a sink (think checking account) for ATP, the currency of energy.

Given that muscle and brain are the major energy users, someone bothered to check. Actually two double blind studies in different parts of the world: Creatine improves mental funcion.

My Cat found that by adding a couple of grams of creatine to a couple of grams of piracetam, there was a mighty boost of energy, increased creativity and markedly reduced need for sleep than for either used alone. This effect wore off after frequent use. While repeatable among about half the cats who tried it, other cats noted sleepiness with this same combination.
 
 
Dr. Tom
00:20 / 23.02.06
Oh, a BBC reference for creatine. You can trace the author to the original study via pubmed.gov...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3145223.stm

Creatine 'boosts brain power'
The dietary supplement creatine - known to improve athletic performance - can also boost memory and intelligence, researchers claim.

Creatine is a natural compound found in muscle tissue, and has been popular with athletes looking for ways to increase fitness.

However, experts say that it has a role in maintaining energy levels to the brain, and have the theory that taking more creatine might actually improve mental performance.

Researchers from the University of Sydney and Macquarie University, both in Australia, tested this by giving creatine supplements to 45 young adult volunteers.

Vegetarians were used for the tests, mainly because meat in the diet is in itself a source of creatine, and it would be difficult to gauge exactly how much an individual had consumed....

More at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3145223.stm
 
 
Saltation
21:03 / 23.02.06
well i never.

i knew of creatine's very-temporary current-capacity boost for physical work. (and the extreme fiddliness of dosing cycles necessary in order to get any benefit) but i had no knowledge of any mental effects.

one for the files. chalk another one up to dr.tom. and His Cat!
 
 
Saltation
21:04 / 23.02.06
*musing*...
i wonder then if CoEnzyme Q10 might also allow the brain to work harder, longer...
 
  
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