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Underground > Radio & Music >

When Joy-core artists are exposed as mimers...

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ONLY NICE THINGS

11:14 / 09.02.05

Righto. In the meantime, could you expand on the sakes for which it is possible to listen to music? So for we have "for the sake of it" and "for the sake of irony", although Legba has combined the two. Any more?

uncle retrospective

11:22 / 09.02.05

If you read my posts you see I never said anything about when you can listen to music. I was defending the poster from the kicking he was getting.
Stupid me.

ONLY NICE THINGS

11:27 / 09.02.05

I'm not asking about when you listen to music. I'm asking about the sake for which you listen to music, which you did mention. To be exact, you said:

So, we have a poster who doesn't like pop just for the sake of it and he gets a kicking.

You appear in that sentence to have accepted "pop just for the sake of it" as a categorisation. So, I am asking for what other sakes music can be experienced. Without, so far, much success. This seems to me to be pretty key, as it may distinguish between pop music and, say, Toil, who blend a pop sensibility with an industrial beat and a lyrical fixation on menstrual blood.

uncle retrospective

12:00 / 09.02.05

While I don't like most of the "Joycore" pop the 'lith likes I'm not calling anyone names over that. I'm just talking about kicking posters. The 'Lith needs to stop it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:17 / 09.02.05

Are you even reading this thread? I'm asking you to stay on topic and to talk about the statement you made. For example, I might say:

I listen to Toil, and in particular their album Uvula 4 Ever, for the sake of finding out more about how the pain experienced by menstruating women alters their perception of reality, and whether that pain can be harnessed by cybernetics to power an exoskeleton

That would be the sake for which I listen to Toil.

Now, the fact that you don't appear to be reading this thread might explain why you are having trouble responding in a germaine fashion to it, but I'm not sure the chiding HysteriX received amounts to a kicking. Nor do I feel, personally, that Barbelith is losing anything if he storms off. Real live tiger, anyone? We can probably rustle up a few other people at a pinch who believe that they are better than everyone else because they like Toil/have read the Invisibles/were opening their heart chakra when the rest of the class learned to use paragraphs. Elsewhere, Vladimir J Baptiste has alleged that he is not posting to Barbelith as frequently because he is being mocked for reasons utterly opaque to him. I see this as possibly the highest compliment Barbelith can be paid - it still has some power to make unrepentantly dumb people feel like their time would be better spent elsewhere, even if they do not quite understand why.

Haus of Mystery

12:32 / 09.02.05

The question remains though Haus, are Tool better than 'The Fast and The Furious'? And can one enjoy Nicholas Cage 'for the sake of it'? Hmm?

Scrambled Password Bogus Email

13:49 / 09.02.05

Yeh-hess! This is more like it. The Haus we know and love, Flyboy posting pictorial responses, and a shit-storm over sheeple and pop music and it's direct causal links to the collapse of the global economy.

I'm telling you, Godwin is waking from his slumber. (more sub-cultural references! Shake that stick! It won't make any difference!)

4 Fast 2 B Furious!

14:57 / 09.02.05

God, I'm not saying that Tool are better than pop. My comment was ment to cover the 'lith's near rabbid defence of pop while taking the piss out of almost anything else.

Are you ready to hear an awful secret, Unc?

Are you?

Here it is:

It's a false dichotomy.

Tool is a pop band--One of many, and operating in the same playing field as the rest of them.

The difference is less with the band than with the fans, and the different ways in which people respond to music. Some people are content to let fun be fun, while some feel that music must, if it is to be worth their time, be "important."

Bands know this, and some bands use "importance" as a branding strategy.

Pop fans tend to see branding for what it is, while the rockist contingent tend to mistake brands for manifestoes.

And it follows, naturally, what we see time and again: Tool fans (to use a convenient example) proclaiming loudly that their music is different, it is important, it is superior to this worthless, manufactured, disposable pop... when in fact it is, at the bottom of it, the same damned thing.

That's what we're taking the piss out of: not the music itself, but its audience's contorted, overreaching "defense" of it--when in fact, it really requires no defense. The only justification anybody needs is Mick Jagger's: I know it's only rock 'n' roll, but I like it.

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:15 / 09.02.05

False Dyke Got To Me is one of my favourite Toil songs.

01:38 / 10.02.05

Thats what I was trying to project when I said tool is a "pop" band. You dont know me like that son. And I never said I don't like pop.

But yes almost 100% of all media is controlled and delivered in nice cryptic bizarro-esque packages, chock full of subconcious influences. And "pop" is right at the top of the list. And I'm not quite sure about the so called underground/independent music. But keep in mind that we are conversating on a web site that was started because of the Invisibles. Which we were able to be exposed to in the first place because of a publishing company. Which in turn is a subsidiary of a much larger corporation. The paper in the books is produced my huge multibillion dollar corporations, which in turn keeps marijuana illegal.

Also why would I storm off. Haus I think alot of what you said was very valid and well articulated. Spatula, I think you are missing the point. I want to go on but the thread summary reads as such: When you like something really naff and poppy JUST FOR THE SAKE OF IT, but something goes wrong.

I love (name goes here), but I went to what I thought was going to be their final tour, and it was a great show, they had an equal amount of classics and new stuff off there supposed last album that I really didn't like. But hey maybe it was my fault because I didn't grow, mature, age, change, or evolve (take your pick) with the band. However, I still went to what I was led to believe was that last show. But what turned ma away was when they released another album a year or two later which sucked even more then the one prior to it and went on tour again. Thus, to me proving that they were out of talent and wanted money. So what does one do in this situation, is (I think) the bottom line of the thread. Well, I listen to their old stuff occasionally; the music which I enjoyed and was entertained by, but also wasn't just about listening so much as it was feeling, identifying, understanding. Now they just sound like recycled garbage, trying to keep up with the trends that sell records and other products. Therefore I don't listen to them, watch their videos, go to their shows or buy their crap. More to say but I'm bored have gone on long enough.

23:19 / 10.02.05

You think you're bored?

23:30 / 10.02.05

Ok, so you people have got me confused. Is Toil an actual band or are you just taking the piss?

I want to avoid potential humiliation at my local record store:P

00:15 / 11.02.05

Considering how incoherent this thread has gotten, can someone please explain to me the connection between Tool and the movie Torque.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

00:30 / 11.02.05

No, you're thinking of Torque Torque. As in "Life's What You Make It". Mimes, the lot of them.

Haus of Mystery

09:43 / 11.02.05

Did anyone see Stefani on the Brits last night? Miner or minder, you've gotta admire anyone who can retain their balance on a pair of monstrous platforms like that.

13:09 / 11.02.05

Didn't No Doubt cover a Torque Torque song?

And thus the circle is complete.

18:35 / 12.02.05

Jack Fear: you got called 'son'.

OWN3D!!

Gwen Stefani is joycore, yet No Doubt, 'Hella Good' excepted, are borecore. If this needs 'splainin' then, well. I don't know.

Incidentally, I think Tool are a fuckin great band, possibly one of about 3 metal bands still worth listening to, and I hate their victimisation herein. Yeah. If youse listened to 'Lateralus' on really strong ectos, you'd SEE.

Do you SEE?

03:42 / 20.02.05

"And thus the circle is complete."

A perfect circle is pretty lame too.

Haus of Mystery

15:01 / 20.02.05

Are they a band?

17:57 / 20.02.05

Tryphena Absent

10:01 / 25.02.05

We can probably rustle up a few other people at a pinch who believe that they are better than everyone else because they like Toil/have read the Invisibles/were opening their heart chakra when the rest of the class learned to use paragraphs

Ooh ooh ooh, that's me! My heart chakra's open to the Invisibles while I listen to Toil on headphones.

18:18 / 04.03.05

he is being mocked for reasons utterly opaque to him. I see this as possibly the highest compliment Barbelith can be paid - it still has some power to make unrepentantly dumb people feel like their time would be better spent elsewhere, even if they do not quite understand why.

Man, that is so sad, Haus. Aren't you/we so lucky to have been born geniuses.

You know, two main factors in my personal transcendence of that whole Arrogant Self-Righteous Adolescent Twat phase - you know, that phase that you seem to be accusing various & sundry posters of being stuck in? - were
1. Realizing that the fact that, through the roll of dice we call genetics, I wound up with a certain IQ was really not through any grand achievement of my own, and
2. Growing a sense of humor.

Talk about calling the kettle black. Here you are, all up HysteriX's ass for his apparently taking himself and the whole subject of pop music waaay too seriously.

To answer the original question, depends on the band. If it was an artist like Gwen, whose music I like for its overall fun pop sound, I don't think I'd mind much if she were lip-synching. If it were an artist who I like especially because of his/her vocals, like say Alicia Keys, I'd be extremely disappointed not to hear live vocals.

14:53 / 01.12.05

the 'lith's near rabbid defence of pop while taking the piss out of almost anything else

I dunno, retrospective. There's loads of threads about other kinds of music - in that last week, I've dug out the old Velvet Underground thread, and the one on experimental composition and took a few notes from the "Boards of Canada" thread. Where's the pisstaking?

There may well be an articulate case to made against Gwen Stefani's music - I dunno, I haven't heard any, but the idiot upthread wasn't making it.

All Acting Regiment

15:28 / 01.12.05

Oh dear. The premise of this thread is embarassing to me now.

When you like something really naff and poppy JUST FOR THE SAKE OF IT, but something goes wrong

Arsehole. Sorry. Um.

15:35 / 01.12.05

Be gentle with yourself. You got better.

Dennis Potter said we should all look back on our own pasts, and our own past opinions, with a mixture of tenderness and contempt. He wasn't entirely stupid, that man.

Matthew Fluxington

11:49 / 02.12.05

Can I just remind people that borecore and joycore aren't really genres? It's not really something someone is all of the time unless they are Andrew WK or something.

10:18 / 03.12.05

You should post around these parts more often Flux. Much missed. X

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