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Running over a Dogma with your Karma...Never Pleasant

 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
13:40 / 17.01.05
Strange thing happened : I found my 'self' extremely wound up by a particular mindset of someone who believes very adamantly in very different things to 'me'...First time I have ever got really confrontational with someone over such ephemeral and silly things as concepts and thought patterns, which surprised me no end, since my position was just that : these are all just concepts and thoughts, and really don't add up to much...In which case why so annoyed?

Background : Dinner with my sister-in-law, who is really into the Assemblies of Yahweh. Now, this is one lady who cannot really finish a sentence without mentioning Yahweh, Yashua, or why and how everyone else is living their life wrong and is going to burn etc. etc. Every aspect of living is brought under the microscope of its scriptural precedent (or lack thereof) and judged heartily, though I always understood that this was not really, ahem, kosher (judging others and all that).

So anyway, I've never really been bothered by all this before, each to their own and wotnot, but on this occasion I was well and truly in the firing line. After a nonsensical assault of being told what i am and what I think etc., all of which was very wide of the mark, I gently pointed out that actually, I am none of those things, and if she cared to ask me about my position on such matters instead of jumping feet first into judgemental assumptions, then we could probably have an interesting discussion about it...

Reply : I don't need to ask you, I know exactly what you are.

Now for some reason this stoked the smoky, damp embers inside into a full force raging blaze in the blink of an eye, and a really testy argument ensued. Bear in mind, this is a woman who says of the fossil record that it is nothing more than a few creatures that never made it onto Noah's Ark and got left behind, believes absolutely literally in Adam and Eve (the whole spare rib business) and regularly accuses me, Oh Heretic that I am, of 'reading too many books' (she is a teacher, so I find this particularly obtuse).

What really got me, is when I started to discuss Yowd He Vau He and how I saw direct and obvious parallels with the Tao and Atman/Brahman concept (the Unspeakable Name of God, and the Eternal Tao that Cannot be Named), and how Tat Tvam Asi of the Hindu system and I am that I AM of her system were all pointing to the same thing, she had no fucking clue what I was on about. Although she is totally immersed in the faith, she had never heard of Yowd He Vau He (hence the 'too many books' comment) and couldn't, honestly, see any difference between her recollection of I am who I am and my recollection of I am that I AM.

Which sort of lead me to the conclusion, which I unfortunately shared, that she is just plain WRONG. Blindly immersed in something which, whatever wisdom it may contain, is absolutely beyond her in her present state of supercilious piety without any application of study or analysis of the doctrine.

The thing is, why the fuck should I care? I found it odd that I got so emotionally heated up by this wee chat, and wanted to ask you fine peoples if you have ever encoutered a similar issue...talking to someone with such entrenched dogma and narrow vision, that they are squeezing the immense mystery of it all into this tiny little neat box in their head, and burying their senses in the face of anything that challenges such a view...Now, it benefits nobody to even go down that road, but it's strangely compelling, like investigating a scab, or pressing a bruise...How do folks navigate their nearest and dearests madness? Is it worth ever even bothering with these talks, and if not how do you tell the preacher to keep it nice and private, where it belongs, instead of ramming it down yuour throat at every opportunity?

(I, completely free of Judeo-Christian mythology, feel quite at liberty to be a judgemental prick ;-))
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
13:46 / 17.01.05
It's a classic : From the 'Sacred Name' newsletter distributed by the Ssembly, discussing possible solutions to the Palestinian terrorist problems in Israel :

"Ultra Orthodox Jews have threatened to arm themselves with spray guns filled with liquid lard to be used against terrorists."

Now THAT is cunning.
 
 
_Boboss
13:47 / 17.01.05
maybe that's what she meant when she said she knew what you were...

just kidding. sounds annoying as fuck. religion over the family dinner table always sounds like it's going to be fun, but it never is. stick to safe topics like politics, sex, attitudes to child-rearing and that.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:49 / 17.01.05
couldn't, honestly, see any difference between her recollection of I am who I am and my recollection of I am that I AM.

I think there are also clear parallels with the concept of "I am's what I am", as frequently expounded by Popeye. Maybe pointing that out would have made things a bit clearer.
 
 
Seth
14:20 / 17.01.05
There's a great thread on a very similar subject here. See if anything in there helps.
 
 
charrellz
14:59 / 17.01.05
wanted to ask you fine peoples if you have ever encoutered a similar issue...talking to someone with such entrenched dogma and narrow vision

My mother was raised Baptist but fell out of that, despite the pressure from her mother and sister. My brother and I, were rasied, as my grandma puts it, as heathens. Now, she isn't openly hostile about it, but my mom has to put up with atleast one bitching a year about it. And family gatherings are hell.

For instance, at Christmas, my grandma pretty much disowned my brother for a comment. The comment was supposed to be supporting her in why the mormons are terrible, horrible people, but she (always reading for her faith to be attacked) took his words as a direct assault on Jesus, and decided he actually said something entirely different than what he said.

This made me particularly angry, because a) we always keep our mouths shut about what we think while they rant and rave about the wonders of Jesus and b) my brother is still Christian (he only doesn't go to church because he was scared away by my grandma dragging him there every Sunday when he was little).

I'm rambling now, so in summary: Yes, dogmatic pricks suck. Especially when they're related to you.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
15:18 / 17.01.05
Thanks Seth, that's a really fascinating thread.
 
  
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