Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Radio & Music >

Resistence Hip-Hop?

Page: (1)2 3

farseer /pokes out an i

20:21 / 14.01.05

I used to diss Hip-Hop. I was like, "whatever, gansta, beotch, money, whatever", for a long time. Then recently a friend of mine turned me onto a flavor of Hip Hop that opened the door up for me. "Resistence Hip Hop" is what I've heard/read it called, and its usually not found on the corporate label... I guess it's mostly the lyrical content that gave me such a happy.

Examples of some resistence rap/Hip-Hop I've been turned onto:
Immortal Technique (Revolutionary Vol 1 & 2), Paris (Sonic Jihad), CONSOLIDATED (Friendly Fa$cism & More Music Please), BlackStar, Dead Prez (Propaganda), MC Frontalot, Saul Williams (Amethyst Rock Star, & Not In Our Name), Beastie Boys (To The 5 Boroughs- does that count?).

If you like meaningful pro-proletariat lyrical content and haven't heard Immortal Technique, Paris, or Consolidated, I totally recommend you check it out... esp. Immortal Techniques "4th Branch", "Cause of Death", "The Point of No Return", "Revolutionary", "One" and "Creation & Destruction" ...

Does anyone have any suggestions as to more Hip-Hop with non-corporate-trash, pro-the-people lyrics? Do you have any favorite restistence Hip-Hop songs?

22:37 / 14.01.05

I can't claim familiarity with much that the young folk are listening to, but back in my day we had The Disposable Heroes of the Hip-Hopresy. "TV: Drug of the Nation" and their cover of "California Uber Alles" still kick butt. They were largely responsible for changing my mind as to the worth of hiphop as a musical form.

23:23 / 14.01.05

It depends what you mean by 'resistance' really, but I still like Saturday Night by Skooly D.

XXII:X:II = XXX

05:16 / 15.01.05

Unimage, I also really like Immortal Technique, though I've only heard "Revolutionary vol. 2". I'm confused why you include MC Frontalot on that list, tho; I love Front to death, but he doesn't strike me as terribly confrontative. Non-Phixion is very political and socially aware, as is, of course, KRS-One. As ungangsta as Del tha Funkee Homosapien is, he often talks up revolution and bettering the lot of all peoples. Wu-Tang Clan, on the other hand, IS gangsta, but also speaks truth to wisdom, the best example of which possibly being "After The Laughter."

Old P.E. is glorious in its militancy; nothing quite like putting a scare into the comfortable for entertainment value. But with as many political songs in their oeuvre as there are, the one that pops into my head most often is when I pass a newsstand:

Here's a letter to the New York Post
Worst damn paper on the whole East Coast

That not one but two shoddy papers could be the #2 & 3 papers in one city simply on the strengths of their sports sections is distressing, especially when you consider some people only get their news from there. Brrr.

/+,

08:15 / 15.01.05

With even the slightest awareness of the context in which most American hip hop exists you'll realise that virtually all of it is *resistance* music.

10:26 / 15.01.05

What a romantic notion.

An absurdly-overreaching, over-academic, and deeply patronizing notion, to be sure.

But romantic.

All Acting Regiment

12:52 / 15.01.05

I don't know if it's *that* over-reaching. I mean as a musical form it is most definitely from the streets- a phrase abused by dickheads but fundamentally true. It is a proletarian music, technically, and so represents the will of the proletariat. And of course a mostly black one at that.
But you might be right in saying that some of it- like a lot of punk- is about going having a good time, partying and whatnot, or "style/cool" etc as opposed to bringing down the man.

13:54 / 15.01.05

It is a proletarian music, technically, and so represents the will of the proletariat.

Getting high, fucking, dancing, friendship, music, having respect... these are not exclusively proletarian concerns, though. Rich white folks like to fuck, same as everybody else.

09:52 / 16.01.05

Make a case, Jack.

10:52 / 16.01.05

don't bother, just keep the grumpy grandad hat on. suits yer.

16:42 / 16.01.05

Make a case, Jack.

I would rather think it's incumbent upon you to make your case first, without recourse to such disingenuous noncompoopery as "Well, if you had the slightest notion of the context..."

It just seems to me that saying, point-blank, that (virtually) all hip-hop made by black folks is by definition "resistance music" is reductionist and, well, kinda icky.

Hip-hop as a musical style hath many mansions, and many people--many individuals--making music for many reasons. Sweeping generalizations about artistic motivations--generalizations based on race, which boil all artistic motivations down to a single "black experience" which you presume all MCs to share--strike me as ill-advised and, frankly, distasteful.

farseer /pokes out an i

20:00 / 16.01.05

Many thanks for the suggestions & commentary thus far. As I said before, new to the genre... recent encounters have, as lekvar succinctly put it, 'chang[ed] my mind as to the worth of hiphop as a musical form.'

lekvar: CONSOLIDATED isn't exactly 'today's music'. either. I'll check out your recommendation. Thanks for posting one!

Vladimir J. Baptiste, Jr: I totally spaced on P.E.; I had heard of the Public Enemy while I was still 're: whatever' on the entire genre, and I should collect some of their tunes and check it out. I'm certain that I have a different perspective/appreciation of their tunes. I will check out your recommendations, thanks. And BTW, Rev Vol 1 is pretty kickass; I was going to list the tracks I especiallly like, but upon reviewing my iTunes playlist, I like 'em all.

MC Frontalot on that list, tho; I love Front to death, but he doesn't strike me as terribly confrontative

Have you heard "Special Delivery?", esp. the live version? I included him particularly for that song, and also to add a little more variety to what I was listing. You are, unfortunately, the only person who I've ever met that was already acquainted with Front...

Flight Of Dragons: 'resistence' is a little intentionally vague, I'd admit. Stupid language. I'll try to locate your suggestion, though, so I appreciate it.

Seth: Given your perspective (which I'm not going to try and dispute), do you have any suggestions, or particular favs?

The Lonely War Of Jack Fear: Given your statement, " Hip-hop as a musical style hath many mansions, and many people--many individuals--making music for many reasons., I'm going to go out on a limb and suppose that you have a wide berth of knowledge re: Hip-Hop. Also given the genre I'm currently exploring, can you put that (potential) knowledge to use and make some recommendations?

Cheers!

22:16 / 16.01.05

I'm going to go out on a limb and suppose that you have a wide berth of knowledge re: Hip-Hop.

Oh, God no. Nothing of the sort.

I am pretty knowledgable when it comes to recognizing sloppy thinking, though.

09:10 / 17.01.05

You’re right in that it was a generalisation, Jack (as indicated by the “virtually”). It was a comment based on the sheer number of artists who (stated in lyrics and interview) view their music as a means to create enough wealth for them to escape a social situation in which the odds often seem insurmountably stacked against them. Which displays at least as much awareness as many of the artists listed by whoever arbitrarily delineates the “resistance” category – you’ll find as many different insights as you do MCs. There’s that often quoted idea that “struggle” is the fifth pillar of hip-hop, and while I consider the pillars idea to be a bit irrelevant it’s a good indicator as to how all pervasive the idea is. We could start listing examples and watch the thread grow several pages if you like, and that would also give farseer a means of getting hir recommendations.

11:01 / 17.01.05

the sheer number of artists who (stated in lyrics and interview) view their music as a means to create enough wealth for them to escape a social situation in which the odds often seem insurmountably stacked against them.

Mm. Well and good. But I think we may be muddling up the question of means and ends, here. To wit: What about the music itself, as opposed to the lifestyle that a record contract can bankroll?

I mean, Elvis Presley—who arguably began life facing odds as long as anybody—came up from backwoods dirt-poverty largely by singing frivolous hoo-hah. Is "Do The Clam" therefore to be regarded as "resistance music"?

Many young, poor African-American men see sports as a way to go to college and—if they go pro—to get very rich indeed. Is having a career in professional sports an act of "resistance"?

For that matter, is simply getting rich an act of "resistance"?

12:55 / 17.01.05

On reflection Jack I do agree that I overstated and thus made my case less effectual. I think that’s partly to do with taste: there is a minority of hip hop that I would say wouldn’t fall into the category of resistance, I just don’t listen to much of it.

But the point is still worth making that a great many rappers who wouldn’t usually be placed in the category of resistance do still have a great many things to say that would give their music that element to any listener with more than a passing interest. It’s the factor of an MC’s displayed awareness, and an obvious example that most people here will be familiar with is 99 Problems by Jay Z. A casual listener might focus on the use “bitch” in the chorus, but the entire second verse is taken up with Jay’s approach to the sad knowledge that he’s more likely to attract unwanted attention from the law for being black. Likewise, the lyric Rap critics that say he's "Money, Cash, Hoes"/He's from the hood stupid, what type of facts are those?/If you grew up with holes in your zapatoes/You'd celebrate the minute you was havin dough places his music and his approach in context, and because it does it overtly within the song it clearly retains the resistance element.

The issue then becomes how the category of “resistance hip-hop” is constructed, how it is delineated, who is constructing it, and for what audience. I would suggest quite strongly that it’s a fuzzy, unhelpful distinction to make when so much of this music displays a keen awareness of the context in which it exists, a context that is frequently the object of intelligent and complex critique within the music itself, but yet doesn’t get due credit for this awareness. I think it’s partly due to knee-jerking prejudice and partly due to the mile-a-minute delivery that causes much of content to be missed, and the artist’s actual stance to be dismissed.

Resistance is a major theme within hip-hop music and the broader culture to which it belongs. Limit it to a few dubiously chosen artists and you’re missing the wood for the trees.

farseer /pokes out an i

13:42 / 17.01.05

I am pretty knowledgable when it comes to recognizing sloppy thinking, though.

*Imagines electronic waveforms cascading through grey brainy matter*

What type of thinking isn't sloppy!?!?

farseer /pokes out an i

14:11 / 17.01.05

The issue then becomes how the category of “resistance hip-hop” is constructed, how it is delineated, who is constructing it, and for what audience. ...[snip]... I think it’s partly due to knee-jerking prejudice and partly due to the mile-a-minute delivery that causes much of content to be missed, and the artist’s actual stance to be dismissed.
Hm... I definitely missed a lot of that context, the times when I sampled rap/hip-hop pre: turning onto the genre. I've always dug the medium, as I consider it Skald-like and poetic. It's possible I wasn't ready to listen closer until recently. I mean, the last artist I payed any attention to in the rap genre was Young MC and Sir. Mix-a-lot (pre-back song)

Resistance is a major theme within hip-hop music and the broader culture to which it belongs. Limit it to a few dubiously chosen artists and you’re missing the wood for the trees.

There are definitely some artists who spend more effort at making their context clear, eh? Like, for example, Immortal Technique? I'm interested in both, and appreciate the commentary and discussion thus far...

cheers!

02:44 / 18.01.05

The issue then becomes how the category of “resistance hip-hop” is constructed, how it is delineated, who is constructing it, and for what audience. I would suggest quite strongly that it’s a fuzzy, unhelpful distinction to make when so much of this music displays a keen awareness of the context in which it exists, a context that is frequently the object of intelligent and complex critique within the music itself, but yet doesn’t get due credit for this awareness

i think it's worth noting that "resistance hip-hop" is not a subgenre designation generally used within hip-hop itself. considering that, i'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of someone who's an outsider to hip-hop coming in and imposing his own criteria for artistic validity and his own genre boundaries with no regard for the definitions already actually in use.

farseer is essentially coming in and invalidating the entire existing body of hip-hop criticism and scholarship, and demanding that people substitute his own vocabulary. i find that somewhat offensive.

farseer, if you're going to start looking into someone else's subculture, when you yourself admit that you don't know much, if anything, about it, it behooves you to act like a polite guest with an open mind. understand that hip-hop was functioning quite well without your approval, and that it's both rude and ignorant to walk in like you own the place, loudly proclaiming that X is good hip-hop and Y is shit. i suggest you go do some listening, do some reading, and go to some existing hip-hop fan sites and lurk for a while and try to understand how hip-hop fans think of their music before you go in and try to tell them how it should be done.

that said, it sounds like you might like Spearhead, Antipop Consortium, Mos Def, and Talib Kweili. you will also want to go back and listen to Public Enemy, KRS-One, and Boogie Down Productions (BDP) before that.

Haus of Mystery

10:57 / 18.01.05

Also Will smith's Willenium. something of a classic resistance record.

11:56 / 18.01.05

Diz said it better than me, but I find the idea of "resistance" Hip Hop a bit icky. As it's something opposed from ouside the genre by (largely white?) fans, judging the music by how much it tickles their political predjudices. Now if you say to me, "well that's just personal taste, and I want to listen to inspiring messages", I'll go "fair enough". If you say that "actually this sort of Hip Hop is morally superior and all that stuff about bling and bitches is wrong.. well, Imma have to call Flyboy.

(ps. Could someone link to that thread about this issue, the one from a couple of years ago. Can't remember what it's called. Ta).

ps. For something which to me staddles the boundaries between "conscious" and "thugged out" and transcends both, is beautiful musically, and should be required listening to anyone expressing an interest in Hip Hop, check out Nas's first album. I won't say what it's called.

12:38 / 18.01.05

i think diz and seth have said very very good things indeed.

but this

'If you grew up with holes in your zapatoes/You'd celebrate the minute you was havin dough'

is why jay z is king of the bellends. what, growing up poor absolves you of the responsibility of careful morality and wisdom? i call rollocks on that jigga, and your girlfriend has eyes like a shark.

13:39 / 18.01.05

I used to diss Hip-Hop. I was like, "whatever, gansta, beotch, money, whatever", for a long time. Then recently a friend of mine turned me onto a flavor of Hip Hop that opened the door up for me. "Resistence Hip Hop" is what I've heard/read it called, and its usually not found on the corporate label... I guess it's mostly the lyrical content that gave me such a happy.

Oh god, not again, surely?

Boboss reaches for the Fly Phone.

13:45 / 18.01.05

hello?

16:34 / 18.01.05

what, growing up poor absolves you of the responsibility of careful morality and wisdom?

One of my cousins in Manchester has grown up in poverty all his life, and was hugely happy showing us round his new house, his mammoth plasma screen TV, and telling us his plans to do up the property. He'd worked fucking hard and in many ways has achieved more than I have, from a worse start. Pretty sure that's what that line means.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

16:53 / 18.01.05

I used to diss Hip-Hop. I was like, "whatever, gansta, beotch, money, whatever", for a long time. Then recently a friend of mine turned me onto a flavor of Hip Hop that opened the door up for me. "Resistence Hip Hop" is what I've heard/read it called, and its usually not found on the corporate label... I guess it's mostly the lyrical content that gave me such a happy.

Oh god, not again, surely?

Boboss reaches for the Fly Phone.

I think he said he left to go to a message board where people are prettier and more "fly" than us. The server is located halfway up his own arse, if I remember right.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

18:05 / 18.01.05

Do you ever have a point?

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

18:07 / 18.01.05

"Oooh, a chance to insult someone who isn't here and not address any of the issues in the topic! Yeah! I likes me some insultin'!"

18:24 / 18.01.05

No shit. When people ask if Barbelith is dying they're looking at the likes of you. Add something to the thread or shut the fuck up.

Maybe if we switch "Resistence Hip Hop" to "Political Hip-Hop" it would sound less icky.

what, growing up poor absolves you of the responsibility of careful morality and wisdom?

What, being rapper means you have to impart morality and wisdom upon the masses? Fuck you.

While I pretty much agree with everything Jack Fear said earlier, when Jay says:

Mr. President, there's drugs in our residence
Tell me what you want me to do, come break bread with us
Mr. Governor, I swear there's a cover up
Every other corner there's a liquor store fuck us up

he becomes a political artist, if just for a moment, even if the majority his discography says otherwise. i think thats what Seth was getting at.

18:57 / 18.01.05

you could also argue that hip-hop DJing is, in and of itself, a political act. it most certainly was in the beginning - appropriating music and not only recontextualizing it but aggressively manipulating it in order to serve the (social) needs of a community which couldn't generally afford live musicians.

farseer /pokes out an i

00:06 / 19.01.05

diztastic voyage: I had written a long response, quoting and splitting 90% of your post, but I ditched it. You've clearly made some assumptions about me, which is fine, people make unfounded assumptions all the time, and somehow my post offended you. Instead of catting it out, let me say this: You're off base. Chill. Seriously. I didn't invent the term "resistence hip-hop", I read it in an Immortal Technique interview, and snagged it from there. I'm not laying down approval, or dissing anything (currently). My mind is open. Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide open . I was just looking for a particular subject matter/genre/whatever and was soliciting suggestions.

I do appreciate the suggestions. I've stumbled across Mos Def and dig those tunes. I'll check out the rest, too. DJing, is, according to my friend DJ SCSI, a political act. I'll let you hash it out with him if you feel different... =)

Bio K9: Your'e totally right. "Political Hip-Hop" is a totally functional find-and-replace for "resistence hip-hop" in the context I'm using it. Had I thought of it in that light, I would have used both in my original post. By "jay" I guess you mean "Jay Z?"

MacGyver: I had totally forgotten about Wil Smith. I think I have a tape with him and DJ Jazzy Jeff somewhere... LOL. I'll check out the album you suggested.

"Reality based" Illmatic: No moral claims are being made by me. I do find the subject matter inspiring, and it's something I want to find some more of. I tried to search in the archives for this info, but alas, I came up with ziltch. I'll try to find Nas' first album, though a title would sure make it easier...

Gumbitch!!!11!!: I'll try to check out some more jay z. Any albums in particular?

08:24 / 19.01.05

'What, being rapper means you have to impart morality and wisdom upon the masses? Fuck you.'

no you stinking chubby little bitchbaby, being human means you have to impart morality and wisdom upon the masses.

well plus you
you know he
can't rap
for tawfee

with flow and delivery like that he should more properly be called 'lay-z'...

(*yisss*

ah gimme self
a hi5
fo the best pun
of 05)

08:55 / 19.01.05

being human means you have to impart morality and wisdom upon the masses.

A fine job you're doing here, I must admit.

09:06 / 19.01.05

i've been careful to make my comments utterly unsubstantiable, and therefore of no possible offense to any but the prickliest.

you're the one who chucks swears about like a ten year old.

so ner.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

10:48 / 19.01.05

Oh yeah, I was going to post this yesterday but I did... something else. I can't remember what.

It's not really "Resistence" Hip Hop per se but if you want something that comments on the automation of society while still being amazingly fun, you'll want to try Grandmaster D.S.T and Jalauddin Mansur Nuriddin's "Mean Machine" ("Robot men with computers for brains/ Space ship cars/ trains and planes" "Chemical drugs that'll keep you high/ While the mean machine creates another lie"). It might also be the source of the old Automatic push button remote control, sythetic genetics command your soul sample but I'm not really sure on that one. Give me a PM if you have problems finding it.

On a similar vein, Newcleus' "Jam on Revenge" is great great great early electro with some very deft lyics about alienation and computer age angst, key tracks being "Computer Age", "Auto-Man" and "I'm not a Robot". The album is half this kind of thing and half goodtimes raps about rhyme-offs with superman and meeting aliens in dance clubs (I like, your milage may vary), but when they tackle the issue they're kind of like the Devo of hip hop.

Public Enemy are very good but bear in mind some of their more radical beliefs may be either nuts or suspect. They do name-check Louis Farakhan an awful lot.

Avoid Dead Prez at all costs. Fuck, I have a copy of their Let's get Free album I'll give you for the cost of postage. They really do not like whitey, and it gets tiresome after a while.

Suedey and Bio K9: pots and kettles, gentlemen.

Page: (1)2 3