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You Can't Escape the God Squad

  
 
Blank Faced Avatar
11:10 / 11.08.01
Just a theory - if you were raised as a christian, then your basic spiritual language is that of christianity; & therefore you don't really grasp, at a primary level, any magical truth that you can't transmute via the christian mysteries.
Discuss.
 
 
pacha perplexa
12:25 / 11.08.01
Give us your definition of "basic spiritual language", please.
 
 
nul
12:30 / 11.08.01
Much like if you grow up speaking English, you won't completely grasp the subtle differences between words in Russian and English. There may be a case made for that, and my example may be simplistic in contrast.

However, the rejection of Christian theology at an early age, which generally involves a conversion to staunch atheism, prior to a full understanding of what is being taught by the Church confuses the issue ever-so-slightly. It's akin to being taught minor English, then being thrust into a society full of Russian-speakers.

For a long time you do continue to think in Christian terms. Heck, most former Christians still say "God damn" or "Jesus Christ" when they get fustrated. It's part of their program, which has influenced them on a subconscious level. Does this mean they are limited by those beliefs?

Certainly not. No more than a child raised as a Wiccan would fail to understand the central teachings of the Quran, or a former atheist could understand the wisdom of Buddha. Mucking around in the spiritual philosophy pool ends up confusing and amalgamating beliefs, until you end up with a clustered mess of ideas and ideals.

The embracing of nothingness to find peace while chastising your friend for eating the sacred cow, avoiding pork chops because they'll affect your connection to mother earth. Allah be praised, Jesus was a saint.

But, then again, I'm probably just saying all that because I'm a case in point of your theory.

Besides, there are no magical truths. Magic is about ignoring common sense and mucking about with the flow of reality.

Sort of.
 
 
Blank Faced Avatar
22:11 / 12.08.01
Here I used 'basic' to just to mean 'first' - in 'basic spiritual language' I meant the first language of symbols & metaphors that you were taught; the first words you learned to describe spiritual experiences - in my case, God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell, Sin, Saviour, Redemption, Pray etc.
 
 
Ierne
15:42 / 13.08.01
Interesting theory.

My gut instinct is to disagree, because I DO think it's possible to change and/or expand one's spiritual outlook. I don't think it's a case of Xtians not being able to understand or accept other perspectives, It's more like they refuse to.

There is a difference between the two, as many ex-Xtians will tell you.
 
 
nul
17:12 / 13.08.01
Xtians? OK, strange lingo aside, accepting the beliefs of other religions would be laughed at by anyone with a strong sense of spirituality as is defined by their religion. Buddhists can chuckle at the belief that Jesus was a Messiah (but that's just personal experience), Muslims can snort and look incredulous when you propose Jesus ascended into the Heavens and was the son of God. Atheists, of course, giggle to no end when you propose God even exists.

Is it refusal to accept those "magical" truths (because, admittedly, those are two fairly magical concepts) by the other religions? Yes, of course it is.

Because, well, they don't think they are truths. Saying that there's an old man in the clouds waiting in paradise for you is one thing, saying that reaching nirvana and oblivion is the goal is another, while saying that there is nothing but dirt and grass fertilizer in your future is another completely.

Can we expect each of these groups to understand and accept the beliefs of the others? No.

The most we can expect is toleration.

Then again, I think I can muck with the flow of things to my own ends by drawing a crappy picture and wanking. What do I know?
 
 
SMS
18:32 / 13.08.01
"I'm beginning to realize something I've always known"

The more I develop my beliefs, the more I find myself moving towards those beliefs I held as a child. I've always been drawn to the idea that everybody's right. My church's mission statement is "A church where science, religion, and life are compatible." These things stuck with me.
 
 
Kobol Strom
19:29 / 13.08.01
I remember thinking,that the word 'church' was derived from a Hebrew word that simply meant 'the people'.Will there ever be a day when we realise that we are all one church,one people.?
We need to rewrite,and reassess our spiritual language.Thats a slow, difficult, painful process,but one in which free choice,and free will,may have a chance to flourish.If we don't do it,we allow others to define our own potentials,when we still don't know how close to God we could actually become.We've spent decades putting up these beautiful stone monoliths and shrines in the name of our deity,and we've put our ancestors into the ground and built more stone obelisks and other constructions.But these stones,this architectural legacy,although it serves a purpose,it also serves to alienate us from our true feelings and our individuality,and each other,and we can't answer back.I was an altar-boy in a Glasgow Roman Catholic church for a few years,and often I disagreed with the sermon,and wanted to shout abuse.What forum is there for that kind of communication?Nothing.Unless things are different in the States,if I remember rightly,it seemed like the churches were brighter and more happy,but I don't remember a question/answer session at the end.What kind of 'church' is that?-Where people get together,and then cease to communicate?
 
 
Seth
20:53 / 13.08.01
I ran a weekly mini-church in my bedroom for about eighteen months. It was made up of creative types (mainly musicians) between the ages of nineteen to twenty-five. We had a lot of raging and passionate debates, as well as some dull and pointless philosophising. I never felt it fulfilled its potential (something to do with the blind leading the blind, perhaps ), but many of the people who went looked upon it as a significant time in their lives. I just wish we’d had more of a chance to explore the supernatural through prayer, prophesy and healing. Anyway, there were a lot of different ideas about faith, and a lot of stuff in common: the only thing that held the group together was our love for each other and the support we showed, rather than common ways of relating and communicating.

The limitations of language is something I’ve been considering a lot, recently. However, I don’t believe it’s insurmountable. Thing is, in order to create a broad based church of all peoples you’d have to allow for very personal flavours and diversity. Coming up with a glossary of terms would promote understanding, but limit the expression of vast cross sections of the demographic. One of the great things about language is learning from other people what they mean when they use the same words in different contexts, or concepts you’re totally unfamiliar with. I’ve loved the conversations on this site because of the range of belief and ways of communicating that belief. When I meet people of different beliefs, I have a lot of fun asking questions and trying to understand where they’re coming from.

I don’t think belief is simply one program learned from an early age - for the truly adventurous it’s a constantly developing, organic growth. We’re all in the business of limiting that growth in certain areas, expanding it in others - sometimes to our detriment. Sometimes we limit ourselves or grow in ways dictated by the things we learned early on, sometimes it comes from an entirely new catalyst. Often a disused and rotten part of our programming dies a natural death and just drops off. Other times we have to consciously effect change. Either way, I reckon we don't have to be slaves to any belief system, we can change if we want to, and it helps if we get to know practical ways of making those changes (as well as working on discernment to know when something needs alteration).
 
  
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