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Astrology - bunk or oracle?

 
 
sine
06:22 / 02.01.05
Anything anyone here can offer would be a blessing. As a kid I was fascinated by astrology as a factor in determining character. As an adult I threw it out as superstitous bunkum, while retaining my belief in other forms of divination. Despite Jung and Co.'s synchronicity experiments and moving testimony by my friends, I still have a sticking point: unlike Tarot, I Ching, etc there is no random factor in the observed phenomena. The only variable after the eternal courses of the planets is in interpretation, and that strikes me as a slippery eel for predictive purposes - seems all hard and deterministic in a way I find difficult to swallow.

I'm curious if anyone here uses astrology for divination of future events (as opposed to character influences), and how they grapple with these issues, if at all. Am I coming at this muddleheaded? School me - pretend I'm from CSICOP.
 
 
Joetheneophyte
14:06 / 02.01.05
I haven't read the astrology course but I enjoyed the Autogenic training course and the Magick courses so this might be of interest to you

the website address is


www.magitech.com/autogenic/astrology/index.html


hope you enjoy and it is of some use to you
 
 
illmatic
14:13 / 02.01.05
I feel kind of similar to you, Sine. I'm not convinced all is pre-determined by the stars, though I think the symbols nd thinking of Astrology might prove useful. The most helpful commet I've heard is that it's a "symbolic language for observing people". If you treat it's symbols as a map for observing people, their bodies and behaviour. I think there's some benefit there.

Onto the CISCOP schooling - can't do it really. For a start, I couldn't imagine convincing someone who was heavily commited to disbelief as most CISCOPians would be. I would suggest a look at the works of Michael Gaquelin (sic - the book is called "The Cosmic Clocks") - which began as an attempt to disprove astrology, but ended up establishing some statistical correlation between planetary positions and careers of prominent people. ANother book I keep meaning to check out is Neil Spencer's "As True as the Stars Above". he used to write a great column in the British newspaper, The Observer. I had a look through this in a bookstore, and I recall the ending - to paraphrase, he said something like "Astrology. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't." Much like magick in that regard, I think. Possibly it's effectiveness depends on how much you internalise it. I would suggest to any skeptic to internalise it's symbols and thinking for 6 months and then see how felt, but I can't see James Randi et al bothering to do this - and why should they?
 
 
illmatic
14:23 / 02.01.05
Here'sa linky.

The other point I meant to make was that did you know the Zodiac as used in tropical (Western) astrology is about 25 degrees out from the actual position of stars in the sky? This is because of a phemonmena called "precession of the equinoxes" - the tropical zodiac has as it's zero point midnight on the spring equinox , but the sun hasn't been in this actual position on that date and time for many centuries -something to think about when trying to convince the skeptical!
 
 
Aertho
18:27 / 03.01.05
So with this procession of the quinoxes, am I more a Capricorn or a Scorpio if I was born 16 December 1978?

Cause I still look VERY Sagittarian.
 
 
Z. deScathach
18:30 / 04.01.05
I don't know what to think about it. I always have been very skeptical about it. Still, there was this guy that did my chart. I said, "I'm an Aquarius, so why the hell am I so obsessed with the martial arts?" He said, "Mars is rising in your chart, that's why...". At which point, I said, "Huh......".
 
 
Aertho
19:38 / 04.01.05
That's another thing. There are so many little loopholes that exist in Astrology like moon signs and houses and risings and settings that if the sun signs weren't universal enough for your liking, there's something in the details to catch your little idiosyncracies.

But like I said, I'm a restless, noncommittal, athletic and spiritually minded Sagittarian, with a ridiculously stupid emotional Cancer moon sign. It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...
 
 
illmatic
11:24 / 05.01.05
Chad: I don't know till I get out my books, which I'm too busy to do right now, sorry. Basically, find out wherethe sun is in your chart and "track back" about 24 degrees. You might find you have a new astrological identity, maybe not - my Sun is in Leo in both systems.
 
 
Querelle
02:53 / 13.01.05
Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but the most scholarly, intellectual deconstruction of the topic that I have found is at The International Astrology Research Centre. This site was started by a guy who did his doctoral dissertation at the Sorbonne on astrology, and it's grown to include many other authors. This is the bleeding edge of current astrological research and thought, but his thesis isn't light reading by any means.
 
 
jorjun
23:34 / 20.01.05
I had this idea a couple of weeks ago which will be dumb, but it is that Einstein says that gravity warps space-time and I believe the big brain dude. And your nativity is about whereabouts you were in the cosmos when your cells started doubling. That particular configuration of the gravity doo daa.

What I think is that the ancients collected the data, and applied it. They didn't know that the leonine looking fellow there that was born in summer was that way because of the gravity configuration in the sector in which was found the 'pussy collar.'
 
 
Brigade du jour
12:52 / 23.01.05
Bit specific this, but I was talking to a friend who knows waaaaaaaaaay more about astrology than I do (well she would, she's Cancerian! ... I'll get me coat) and the issue of due birth dates (as opposed to dates you're actually born) came up.

I, for example, was born 3rd March but was due around 21st February. She said this made no difference, it's all down to the moment of birth, as predetermined by your proto-self or something. If so, where does astrology leave, say, the abortion debate? Because it seems to me that this astrological precept is arguing that a person is not a person (at least in terms of having a zodiacal character) until the moment of birth.

On the other hand, if one has a proto-self that determines a moment of birth, then maybe we truly choose in some way to be born under a particular sign. Can anyone shed any light on this?
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:38 / 23.01.05
personally i think its the date of conception, so you have to go ask your mum and dad when did you fuck?

and then figure how long it took for the sperm an egg to combine in those juices of molecular love.

so what happens when a fish fucks a crab, well in my case they got another crab, but in my sisters case they made a virgin.

funny things stars.how comes the planets dont bump into each other
 
 
jorjun
18:11 / 23.01.05
No. Definately the umbillical cord cut-time is when to look up at the heavens and shit your pants in awe. Because that is when the Elders looked for some kind of hint as to the 'character of reign' the subjects of the this king son would be in for (very important for stock market investors). Now they must have kept a record (secret obviously) because if they fucked up, they would be fucked over.

Anyway until birth, the baby is not interacting with the envirnoment and is more like an internal organ of the mother.
 
 
Perfect Tommy
01:34 / 24.01.05
That particular configuration of the gravity doo daa.

Well, true and not true. The planets are certainly exerting gravity on you at your birth, but because of the way that gravity works over distance (the inverse-square part) and because planetary distances are so absurdly large, my understanding is that Jupiter exerts significantly less gravitational pull on the baby than the obstetrician.
 
 
jorjun
08:52 / 24.01.05
Back to first olde science.
Starting with the moon. Did she separate the sexes in the sea? I think she did.
 
 
Unconditional Love
15:43 / 24.01.05
when the umbilical is cut the first thing you see is hopefully a really sexy nurse or doctor and then in all probability if you look up, a light bulb or those really flimsy ceiling tiles, you should never try to walk on as a child, believe me, especially if you fall into the wrong classroom.

an internal organ of the mother,yeah, and you still are when the umbilical is cut, only your mother becomes everything else.
 
  
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