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For Myfi

  
 
Ierne
11:45 / 07.08.01
Ierne, I have a daft question...you know when you communicate with whichever deity...well, I've always wondered whether I am missing something which other people seem to be able to do...I mean, do you hear words, get flashes of ideas, see pictures? How does that happen? I know before I lost my Catholic belief I used to find comfort in an image of Jesus who I believed was always with me and I could feel a sort of protecting male presence in my head...but I suspect this was probably the result of a susceptible mind and too many gospels

Having said that, lots of stuff used to come naturally to me as a child, for example, you know when you meditate and you get the big/small thing where you feel as big as infinity then small and insignificant...well I used to get that most nights before going to sleep, as soon as i closed my eyes...also, I used to picture calm scenes in my mind then imagine an energy leaving my hands...all this was before I'd looked into it or knew any better than Catholic domination.

I don't quite know why I'm rambling, it's just that I feel the need to be a part of something, but there's so many doors and the keys are rusty...or something

Hehe, that's enough theosophical rambling for one evening

Myfi

Hmmmm...as for "missing something which other people seem to be able to do", I think everyone has different ways of contacting whatever's out there. Some get visual stimuli, others audial...some just get a feeling in their gut that says "right then, that worked". So its a manner of what's best for you. If you're comfortable with meditiation, then work with that and see where it gets you.

Imagination and creativity are crucial ingredients in magic, far more important than holding faith in a particular belief system. If certain things came easily to you as a child, then you can still access these capabilities by getting back to that childlike state and letting your creativity flow.

The concept of "Jesus" is a conglomeration of many other deities of the ancient world; Osiris, Dionysos, Tammuz/Dumuzi, Mithra...so if catholicism doesn't work for you, there are many other ways to access that comforting presence you recall. You could probably give that presence a new name, as well.

Hope that helps a bit. the great thing about magick is that there is no "one right true and only way" to get stuff done. Whatever works for you is best.
Good Luck!

[ 07-08-2001: Message edited by: Ierne ]
 
 
Seth
14:29 / 07.08.01
quote: Originally posted by Ierne on "A Year of Sigils"

I'm not sure how similar to prayer my method is, it's more like a dialogue between levels of reality. There is a similarity to mediation in terms of focus, both on the goal and the divinity as a channel to help achieve that goal. But for me personally, it's more active than meditation. The godform of my choice is not doing it FOR me; S/he is working WITH me to get done what needs to be done.

It's pretty similar to my experience. The only real difference is that I don't choose deities - I run with one.

I wish more people would realise that deep meditation/supernatural occurance/mystical experience aren't mutually exclusive to Christianity. So many Christians could have such an amazing array of experience if they simply chose not to demonise new/different/alien ideas before close examination. I’ve had a lot of prophetic experiences, direction that stems from dreams and visions, insights into friends and family, all of which I would never have had without learning techniques that many within my faith would treat as taboo.

Sorry… hobby horse subject. I’ll shut up now. Just seemed more appropriate to discuss it here, with the general “Catholic/Christian background” thang. I’ll shut up, now.
 
 
Ierne
14:56 / 07.08.01
expressionless: Aw, don't shut up!

It is unfortunate indeed that many Xtians do not realize "that deep meditation/supernatural occurance/mystical experience aren't mutually exclusive to Christianity". However, that is exactly how the various organizations that collectively promulgate this religion WANT it. And most Xtians, if they're "good" Xtians, will not deviate from the dictates that these organizations lay down to their "sheep".

There's an extremely large difference between your personal interaction with Jesus and the headfucking that, for most Xtians, is as good as it's ever gonna get. You've got a good thing going on but it seems as if Myfi's Xtian experience has been quite different, and s/he wants to take a different route.
 
 
grant
15:43 / 07.08.01
Heheh. I learned to talk to saints from my *very* Catholic grandmother, and I learned to meditate in CCD (like Sunday school for Catholics, only it's usually on a weeknight).

So it goes.
 
 
6opow
18:06 / 07.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Ierne:
However, that is exactly how the various organizations that collectively promulgate this religion WANT it. And most Xtians, if they're "good" Xtians, will not deviate from the dictates that these organizations lay down to their "sheep".

Yes, Jung recognized this, and was critical of the fact that often an organized religion wants to prevent the individual from having some sort of mystical experience. Rather, the individuals of a given group are to have their religiousness mediated through an officially sanctioned individual.

I suppose it is a fine line to walk though. If we want to keep a group cohesive, then we can't have everyone talking to God (example) on their own: what if God tells 'em different things, right?
 
 
Seth
21:52 / 07.08.01
quote: I suppose it is a fine line to walk though. If we want to keep a group cohesive, then we can't have everyone talking to God (example) on their own: what if God tells 'em different things, right?

We usually have fights with spears on rope bridges dangling precariously over spiked pits. Settles most differences.
 
 
Ierne
11:40 / 08.08.01
Auto-da-fé, anyone?
 
 
Myfi
15:58 / 08.08.01
Thanks Ierne, I was getting a bit lost trying to create a string there.

I think, really it's just voices...I don't really go in for names anyway, in general. You may have guessed that Myfi isn't my real name, I just like the sound of it

Yeah, voices...but Xtianity (I really like that abbreviation btw), is only organisation for most of it, political and segmentary...I don't think it's really what I would class as faith at all, more just rules.

I think the direction I'm heading for is going to mean I listen more to feelings inside me. Gut reactions, all that. That is something I actually believe it, the whole idea that imagination can make things happen, or at least help. On the most basic level, I feel that I should be listening to my intuition more, so I am, or at least I'm trying.

As far as getting back to my child like imagination goes, I've been focusing on that for the last six months or so, so I'm already on that path. I read a book (History of White Magic), which focuses on Magic as being made of imagination, and realised it was time to wake it up again, which involves lots of being silly and child like. I know it freaks out the people at work, but I love it!

As for stones, I meant crystals/stones/pebbles, that kinda thing. That's something I can't doubt the power of. Even if I don't touch them for some time, I can just pick one up for a few seconds and whoosh!, e.g. rosequartz, straight for the tummy...

I use colours too, to turn my fear into love..I know I sound like a loon, but it works for me I just take the knot in my tunny and imagine it filled with pink bright light, and it transforms into a love/butterfly sensation.

Sorry for rambling

Myfi

  
 
Myfi
16:01 / 08.08.01
quote: I just take the knot in my tunny

Maybe where I come from they call them tunnies
 
 
Myfi
16:03 / 08.08.01
Oooohhhh yeeahh...

Has anyone ever done a multi-tap style meditation...does it work, is it possible?

I just wondered, I bet if it worked it would be fantastic...the possibilities...

Maybe we should try one, as a group. All meditating about a certain place at a specific time, I don't know how it would work, but maybe...

Myfi
 
 
Ierne
16:09 / 08.08.01
I read a book (History of White Magic), which focuses on Magic as being made of imagination... – Myfi

Watch out for the Black Magic/White Magic pitfall.

Think of it as electricity: using electricity one can light up a house or kill someone in an electric chair. But do we talk about good or bad electricity?

As an old friend of mine used to say, " 'Black Magic' is anything that actually WORKS!"
 
 
Mordant Carnival
17:18 / 08.08.01
Not to mention that the whole white=good, black=bad thing sets my teeth on edge.
 
 
Myfi
17:21 / 08.08.01
Regards white/black magic, this is something I've been battling with for a while. I agree with you, in that it can be called black if it works. Mirror magic for example, is something I felt drawn towards, but my partner steered me away from it, because it was 'dangerous'. I think my major obstacle is my fear, sometimes I am brave and I think, yes I really want this to work and I am ready for anything, other times, I don't want it to work because I feel like I'd freak out if I saw anything strange, especially if I was alone.

I guess I need to find some protection I believe in, and I haven't discovered it yet, except my partner, and he's not quite pocket size

Myfi
 
 
Ierne
17:21 / 08.08.01
Mordant: that's two of us, grinding away.



I hate that crap as well. Magick is magick and it's all about the doing.
 
 
Ierne
17:27 / 08.08.01
Myfi: As for fear being an obstacle, I would like to defer to the "godless wretch":

The key things for unsticking a rusted life, I found, were focus and fearlessness. Yeah, you have to work hard...but if your energies are diffused and, most importantly, you are afraid of where your work might be taking you, then rusted you will stay. – Mordant Carnival

  
 
Myfi
17:41 / 08.08.01
That sounds like pretty good advice

I think I'll try something small, something definately non-scary, and focus really hard...a newbie bit of Magick

Any suggestions?
 
 
Mordant Carnival
18:23 / 08.08.01
Pet hamster?

Think of some little thing you've wanted for a while. A small pay rise, maybe, or for that cute person you see in the caff at lunchtimes to give you a smile- it can all be yours, with instant strawberry-flavour chaos.

You could try something a bit less material if you like- most of my sigils are not for actual things but to help me develop the traits I want- confidence, sociability, motivation. (sounds nu-age and barf-inducing, I know, but it works.) You can't beat a sigil for that.

If you want to put your newfound occult mastery to the test, try doing a spell to find a particular item (a foreign coin or a blue handkerchief or something). I tried this a while back when I was going through a doubting phase, and the results were uncanny.

Enjoy.
 
 
6opow
19:02 / 08.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Mordant Carnival:
Not to mention that the whole white=good, black=bad thing sets my teeth on edge.

No doubt, eh? I like Ierne's comparison of magick to electricity, really close to the mark, yes? I think that E.E. Rehmus makes a reasonable distinction between the concepts of white and black magick (in his discussion of Pentacles in "The Magician's Dictionary"):

"When it points upward it refers to 'white' magic, or self as part of the world. Pointing downward it indicates 'black' magic, self opposed to the world."

So we see that the distinction is not being made with reference to good and evil, nor to some dualistic current of magick itself, but that magick (like a hand gun) is only as good or as bad as the person who wields it.
 
 
Seth
13:37 / 09.08.01
quote: Yeah, voices...but Xtianity (I really like that abbreviation btw), is only organisation for most of it, political and segmentary...I don't think it's really what I would class as faith at all, more just rules.

Ouch. It’s actually the exact opposite – it’s just a shame that the majority of us give off that impression. Notice I use the term “us” rather than getting involved in denominational politics. I don’t think any other faith has been done so much injustice be the people who profess to be practitioners.

Shit. Starting to get very depressed. I also seem to be constantly responding to stuff like this in partially relevant or unrelated threads, so many apologies. If anyone wants to chat about this in a separate topic, please private message me and I’ll start one. I need putting up to it, cos I’m certainly no spokesperson. Otherwise, I’ll just try to stop derailing everyone else’s conversations!
 
 
Myfi
16:52 / 09.08.01
Sorry if I offended you Expressionless...and I retract any sweeping generalisations, as I remember the people I know within Catholocism who are among the greatest I know. From a strength point of view, I'm all for Christianity. I also appreciate that there are many people doing great things who never would have started if Christianity hadn't pulled them together. It is, however the closed minded attitude which seems to me to prevail in the areas I've been which pulls it down, I think. I mentioned in another thread (I think), about the sense I used to have a Jesus protecting and guiding me. I reckon as role-models go, he's a terrific figure, whether real or fantasy.

Actually, you want to know something? I've just remembered the feeling I had when I woke up today. I'd been dreaming, quite a raunchy dream actually, but that's not the point, the point is that for not the first time recently I was left with an image of a male figure in the dream (not in a raunchy way)in the background. It was someone I know, but I couldn't place him at all. It makes me wonder if all this regression and talk isn't re-awakening the belief/comfort I used to have before I got all cynical

May raise a small question?

Thanks

Do you think that the fall in numbers going to church coincides with the 'selfish' attitude that many people are supposed to have these days?
 
 
Seth
19:42 / 09.08.01
quote: Sorry if I offended you Expressionless

You didn’t offend me at all, mate. It’s the narrow minded attitudes of many Christians that offends me. Sorry if I sounded like I was having a go - my intention was more of a sad, resigned agreement. It’s just frustrating that people with Christian faith often seem to have beliefs that are the polar opposite of what I understand to be the original intention.

If you don't mind, I'm going to start a thread in which I'll answer your question.
 
  
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